Tayls Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 What chance do any team outside the top 4/5 have anymore? As soon as they get a decent player, one of the big teams buys him to 'rotate' with other £30m strikers. Another nail in the coffin regarding my love for football. That's just it... We have no chance what so ever under current circumstances. We all know what needs to happen if we want to put an end to other teams poaching our top players.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 How does everyone feel that we are now officially a stepping stone club. Barry, Milner, Young, Downing and now Benteke. I think it's depressing how we can't hold on to players. We lose the most yet others like Everton, spurs, Newcastle to an extent keep theirs. Because we are not as good as those teams you listed (except Newcastle but I'm not sure they should be included in your list because I'm not sure who they have managed to 'keep'?). We have to consistently be back at the top to keep our players. It's a bit of a circular argument as we need our players to get to the top, but without buying our way to the top like under MON that's just the way it is. Remember that we ourselves were poaching players in the MON era. We just need to be established in the top half again and this wont happen so much. The only player we lost when we were in our 'prime' was Barry really No but we were as good as spurs and everton and we still lost our best players. Also Newcastle have kept on to cabaye (so far), Ben Arfa and Tiote (interest from arsenal last year) How does everyone feel that we are now officially a stepping stone club. Barry, Milner, Young, Downing and now Benteke. I think it's depressing how we can't hold on to players. We lose the most yet others like Everton, spurs, Newcastle to an extent keep theirs. Not this "little Villa" rubbish again. The clubs you mentioned have all had to sell their fair share of star players in the past. Maybe so, but ive mentioned 5 for villa in the last few years. Arsenal have lost Clichy, Adebayour, Song, Van Persie and Nasri and they're a Champions League club. I have no real problem with us selling players for massive profit. Sure it would be nice if they didn't go but realistically all but 3 clubs in England suffer from the same thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Blip? This is the business model we wanted. Admittedly we didn't expect it this quickly. The entire business model is by young, hungry, talented and cheap players. Build them up, if we keep them - great, we build something. If we dont, we either make very little loss because they weren't good enough. Or, we sell them on for huge profits in order to fund the next round of incomings. £25-30m will fund this summer, January and most of next summers transfer exploits. This is the model working perfectly in action. This is the business model we wanted. Admittedly we didn't expect it this quickly. The entire business model is by young, hungry, talented and cheap players. Build them up, if we keep them - great, we build something. If we dont, we either make very little loss because they weren't good enough. Or, we sell them on for huge profits in order to fund the next round of incomings. £25-30m will fund this summer, January and most of next summers transfer exploits. This is the model working perfectly in action. Exactly. We've swapped from a system where you make a massive loss on deadwood or have them hang around milking their contract to a system where your players come into their prime and potentially move for massive fees. There'll be pain because essentially we're going to be selling players the fans don't want to sell. But if we re-invest properly then it's all good. And we re-invest and we re-invest and then re-invest some more but when do we build a team? The Benteke debacle if anything shows that whenever we get a quality player he is going to be cherry picked and that will continue leaving us in a re-build vicious circle. I've stated this time and time again that only investing in youth won't work because there won't be a base on which you can build a team. If those young players fulfil their potential then they will be off to pastures new within a couple of seasons and although our club might get rich financially it will however will stay poor on success. It's a slow process but yes you can build something. Look at Dortmund. In 07/08 when their similar rebuilding began they brought in the likes of Hummels, Blaszczykowski and Mladen Petric for a combined £3m. They have since sold players such as: Pienaar, Petric, Lucas Barrios, Nuri Sahin, Kagawa, Gotze, Lewandowski (next summer) and still built something. Westwood & Lowton £1.8m. Bennett £2m Benteke £5m Vlaar £3m KEA £3m Bacuna £800k Tonev £2.5m Luna £1.5m Helenius £1.2m Guzan £Free Okore £4m Bowery £500k Sylla £2m? Steer - Tribunal.. £500k? Total: £26m outlay tops? Selling Benteke for £26m+ Would have essentially funded a rebuilding of our squad. If we really wanted to (we wouldnt), we could fill a Starting 11 + some of the bench with these players. Guzan Lowton Vlaar Okore Luna Westwood Sylla Bowery Bacuna Tonev Helenius Steer, Bennett, KEA. So yeah, I think we can build something. We already have the foundation for something before even adding in our own youth prospects. Before we add in any more additions that could come from the money we get (and/or save in wages) from Bent, Given, Ireland, Bannan and Delfouneso. If we can keep finding gems, selling them on if need be, and using that money to improve the squad, that is building something. As I said before, selling Benteke for £25-30m will fund this summer, January and next summers signings. If it turns out next summer or the summer after that Lowton or Okore are £20m defenders, then selling them will fund the next round. If in 3 years time Jordan Graham is a £20m winger, he will fund the next round..If it's Grealish at £25m the year after then the Academy has been funded for years to come. We can't compete unless we gradually build the quality of our team and the quality of our academy and eventually it clicks. Thats the situation we and any other club outside of the current top 6 find themselves in. Until then or a oil-rich sheikh buys us.. We go again.. Best post Ive read here. Kudos. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted July 9, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2013 Contracts are there for the both players and clubs, can't moan at a player for not wanting to 'honour' his contract just like I don't enjoy players like Ireland 'honouring' their deal and staying. Contracts give players security and also clubs. Works both ways. Devastating it's happening this summer when things were looking so rosy but he's an unbelievable talent and will do well wherever he goes I'm sure. Exactly Well let's just hope as we've had players such as Ireland sitting on the wage bill without doing much we can actually keep a player on the wage bill who does something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks1876 Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If he moves to a big club, will they have the same patience that Lambert did when he first signed for us? He was a bit of a carthorse for the first couple of months, if he performs like that then he will get relegated to the bench. I don't really understand the logic of this but hey, he's a footballer. I guess at least he had the manners to give us a request so he won't get a pay off and we can hopefully get a deal done quickly, as well as line up possible replacements over the next couple of months. I like the statement the club has put out and I hope we can get £30m. Yeah he had a few shockers early on and we all thought "S**T" another Heskey on board,but he came through and scored some terrific goals and that back heel to Andi against Liverpool was just fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If he is available for 25 million then we should put a bid in ourselves. It would send out a message that we are ambitious and we could reinvest the money. Just think we get a new Benteke and the old one will stay as a spare , plus we make 25 million. We can also triple both of their wages with all the extra Benteke money too . It all depends on if Lerner would stump up the cash and then accept his own offer . It's a ballsy move but would be a real statement of intent. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If he is available for 25 million then we should put a bid in ourselves. It would send out a message that we are ambitious and we could reinvest the money. Just think we get a new Benteke and the old one will stay as a spare , plus we make 25 million. We can also triple both of their wages with all the extra Benteke money too . It all depends on if Lerner would stump up the cash and then accept his own offer . It's a ballsy move but would be a real statement of intent. Ain't happening.... Forget it. Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcgrathsknees Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Hey ho. Unfortunately I can see this bloke being as good as Drogba in a few years. Off he goes, it was all just a bit inevitable. Enjoyed it whilst it lasted. Saw him vs Swansea and said to the lad we won't keep him next year and got him the Benteke shirt a few days later. To me he was obviously going to be that good. Think one more year would have been the right move for him with us and then go. However, if he stayed we would have been totally reliant on him and then to lose the main focus of the the last 2 years of play could have left us very fragile. Let's hope a new exciting style of play and fresh new signings help us more in the long term. Heads up! UTV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If he is available for 25 million then we should put a bid in ourselves. It would send out a message that we are ambitious and we could reinvest the money. Just think we get a new Benteke and the old one will stay as a spare , plus we make 25 million. We can also triple both of their wages with all the extra Benteke money too . It all depends on if Lerner would stump up the cash and then accept his own offer . It's a ballsy move but would be a real statement of intent. I wouldn't sell for under £30 million. Even to Aston Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Its a joke really the state of the Premier League... Its the equivalent of a Grand Prix race with 3 Formula 1 cars racing against 4 Golf GTI's, 10 Vauxhall Vectra's & a couple of Citreon Picasso's. Race Result 1. Formula 1 car no.1 2. Formula 1 car no.2 3. Formula 1 car no.3 4, Golf Gti no.1 5. Golf Gti no.2 6. Golf Gti no.3 etc etc etc Relegated 17. Vauxhall Vectra ??? (By far the most interesting contest of the year) 18. Citroen Picasso no.1 19. Citroen Picasso no.2 Thats not a race its a mismatch.. Its about time the FA sorted something out now as it's become a farce really in my opinion. Long gone are the days when i used to buy a season ticket full of hope for the new season, wondering could we win the title or FA cup. Now i think...Shall i bother spending my money to watch a few games this season? I don't even bother looking at the big games anymore against the "money teams" as frankly there is no point really. Even if you outplay them (which in itself is highly unlikely) then you never get the rub of the green from the officials against these teams (very odd that) so i would rather go to a game we have at least a fair chance of winning. I don't want to watch a re-run of the race i've highlighted above.. it's boring frankly & not my idea of a fun day out. Neither do i like watching the Sky 4 games on TV week in week out. Lost count of how many times last season there were cracking games which had loads riding on them between the relegation threatened teams which were ignored & instead we got the dullness of another meaningless foregone conclusion at Old Trafford with Man Utd against whoever. For me the game is in danger of losing it's soul. Just a bunch of overpaid blokes who have lost the spirit of football... For me the game is all about hope & dreams & belief... It is worth little when all of those things have been stifled. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If he is available for 25 million then we should put a bid in ourselves. It would send out a message that we are ambitious and we could reinvest the money. Just think we get a new Benteke and the old one will stay as a spare , plus we make 25 million. We can also triple both of their wages with all the extra Benteke money too . It all depends on if Lerner would stump up the cash and then accept his own offer . It's a ballsy move but would be a real statement of intent. Ain't happening.... Forget it. Move on. Never say never. If Benteke sees that he will be playing alongside players of the exact same quality as himself then he might stay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted July 9, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) What chance do any team outside the top 4/5 have anymore? As soon as they get a decent player, one of the big teams buys him to 'rotate' with other £30m strikers. Another nail in the coffin regarding my love for football. That's just it... We have no chance what so ever under current circumstances. We all know what needs to happen if we want to put an end to other teams poaching our top players.... IMO there is no way the upper echelons of football will ever put in restrictions. Under Lerner we will continue to buy cheap and hope some turn out to be quality and that we'll continue to "survive" in PL. Anyone thinks we can make a step up and get anywhere near honours is in dream land. From my personal POV I have now accepted that the best we expect is the odd exciting match, some good away days, the odd victory over a top 4 club and maybe a good run in the league and FA cups from time to time. As for football in Europe I doubt I will be using my passport for anything other than friendlies. Like all but top 5-6 clubs in the PL we make up the numbers and season after season ad infinitum we are destined to scrap for positions 7 to 17 in the hope that we can avoid positions 18-20. Happy Days! Edited July 9, 2013 by MikeMcKenna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Contracts are there for the both players and clubs, can't moan at a player for not wanting to 'honour' his contract just like I don't enjoy players like Ireland 'honouring' their deal and staying. Contracts give players security and also clubs. Works both ways. Devastating it's happening this summer when things were looking so rosy but he's an unbelievable talent and will do well wherever he goes I'm sure. Exactly Well let's just hope as we've had players such as Ireland sitting on the wage bill without doing much we can actually keep a player on the wage bill who does something. Yes, if Villa can let the likes of Given, Bent, Ireland, Hutton & Warnock just rot on high wages I am sure they can adequately cope with allowing Benteke to rot on his comparatively paltry £20,000 per week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If he is available for 25 million then we should put a bid in ourselves. It would send out a message that we are ambitious and we could reinvest the money. Just think we get a new Benteke and the old one will stay as a spare , plus we make 25 million. We can also triple both of their wages with all the extra Benteke money too . It all depends on if Lerner would stump up the cash and then accept his own offer . It's a ballsy move but would be a real statement of intent. Great idea. It'll also show Benteke that we're looking to bring in players of a similar calibre to him. It's a flawless plan In fact, even if Benteke decided to sign for Villa, we could chance our arm at bidding for him immediately. Imagine, 3 Bentekes and about £80m in from transfer fees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted July 9, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) If he is available for 25 million then we should put a bid in ourselves. It would send out a message that we are ambitious and we could reinvest the money. Just think we get a new Benteke and the old one will stay as a spare , plus we make 25 million. We can also triple both of their wages with all the extra Benteke money too . It all depends on if Lerner would stump up the cash and then accept his own offer . It's a ballsy move but would be a real statement of intent. Absolutely no chance! Aston Villa are no going to break the habits of a lifetime. You know the rules: They have to be cheap Or Hand me downs Or From the Academy Edited July 9, 2013 by MikeMcKenna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 ........................Christain Bentekke walks into a bar.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumblebum Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Football stinks. No loyalty any more. Had anyone heard of him before last season?? I've got to start thinking of this as a business not a game. Problem is that i've never had passion for a business only a football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted July 9, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2013 ........................Christain Bentekke walks into a bar.......... He cries out who the f**k lowered the bar! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 If he is available for 25 million then we should put a bid in ourselves. It would send out a message that we are ambitious and we could reinvest the money. Just think we get a new Benteke and the old one will stay as a spare , plus we make 25 million. We can also triple both of their wages with all the extra Benteke money too . It all depends on if Lerner would stump up the cash and then accept his own offer . It's a ballsy move but would be a real statement of intent. Absolutely no chance! Aston Villa are no going to break the habits of a lifetime. You know the rules: They have to be cheap Or Hand me downs Or From the Academy Wow SOMEONE didn't read the post they quoted... I've got to start thinking of this as a business not a game Only now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) Its a joke really the state of the Premier League... Its the equivalent of a Grand Prix race with 3 Formula 1 cars racing against 4 Golf GTI's, 10 Vauxhall Vectra's & a couple of Citreon Picasso's. Thats not a race its a mismatch.. Its about time the FA sorted something out now as it's become a farce really in my opinion. Long gone are the days when i used to buy a season ticket full of hope for the new season, wondering could we win the title or FA cup. This goes beyond the FA. The FA could impose arbitrary wage caps, a universal transfer fee limit, hell, even go really crazy and have a player draft like they do in the NFL. And all of the good players will piss off to Germany, Italy and Spain, and leave us watching Joe **** Bennett walking around thinking he's Ronaldo. Edited July 9, 2013 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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