Defending Corners - As Bad As People Think?

[Stevo985]

Here's a bit of context.

 

I can't find a table from this season, but this is a table from more or less the exact same point of last season (it's from after our game vs Man City on 12th Feb 2012) and is a list of goals scored and conceded from corners up to that point in the season

 

Team Goals scored from corners Goals conceded from corners Aggregate goals from corners

Man City            12            2             +10

West Brom          6             1             +5

Man Utd              7             3              +4

Norwich               7             3              +4

Chelsea              4              0             +4

Everton               5              2             +3

Sunderland         4              1             +3

Wolves                6              5             +1

Tottenham           5              4             +1

Blackburn            8              8              0

Stoke                   4               5             -1

Arsenal                3               4              -1

Liverpool              5               7              -2

Fulham                 3               5              -2

Newcastle             1               3               -2

QPR                     3               6               -3

Swansea               3               6               -3

Wigan                    3              6                -3

Bolton                     3             10               -7

Aston Villa              0              11              -11

 

If you assume that, in general, the stats of other teams would show a similar pattern we can conclude two things.

 

Yes, we're still awful at defending corners.

However, we're slightly less awful than we were last season

 

Edit: Dunno how to do tables! Hopefully that's remotely decipherable

Edited February 4, 2013 by Stevo985

[Ron Burgundy]

So I'm fed up of hearing from fellow fans and pundits at how bad we are

at defending corners. I thought I'd do a little research and see just

how bad it is, I have only taken league games into account.

Opposition--------------Corners Conceded------------------Goals

West Ham (A)----------------------- 6-----------------------------------0

Everton (H)---------------------------9-----------------------------------0

Newcastle (A)-----------------------10-----------------------------------0

Swansea (H)-------------------------4------------------------------------0

Southampton (A)--------------------1-----------------------------------0

West Brom (H)-----------------------4-----------------------------------0

Tottenham (A)------------------------8-----------------------------------1

Fulham (A)---------------------------6------------------------------------1

Norwich (H)---------------------------8-----------------------------------1

Sunderland (A)----------------------6------------------------------------0       

Man Utd (H)--------------------------6------------------------------------0

Man City (A)------------------------- 9------------------------------------1

Arsenal (H)---------------------------6------------------------------------0

Reading (H)--------------------------3------------------------------------0

QPR (A)------------------------------11-----------------------------------0

Stoke (H)-----------------------------2------------------------------------0

Liverpool (A)-------------------------7------------------------------------0

Chelsea (A)--------------------------8------------------------------------1

Tottenham (H)----------------------16------------------------------------0

Wigan (H)----------------------------3-------------------------------------1

Swansea (A)-------------------------3-------------------------------------0                                 

Southampton (H)-------------------5-------------------------------------0

West Brom (A)----------------------8-------------------------------------1

Newcastle (H)-----------------------4-------------------------------------0

Everton (A)-------------------------15-------------------------------------1

Which gives the number of corners conceded this season thus far to: 168

And then the number of goals conceded from goals this season to: 8

Meaning we concede on 4.8% of our corners (In the league). Which equates to roughly a goal ever 20 corners. In my opinion this is nowhere near as bad as being made out by the media etc. and the main problem is we concede too many corners, not that we don't defend them well.

 

 

This information hasnt been presented in a meaningful manner.

 

5/10

[Ron Burgundy]

We need some heat maps .. .. .. ..

[briny_ear]

Not a heat map but...

 

Mat Kendrick has produced the table I was calling for!

 

 

Rather whimsically, Mat presents this as proof that in league matches we have one of the best records at defending corners because we have successfully defended 160, bettered only by QPR, West Brom and Sunderland.

 

This is true and it stems from the fact that we have conceded so many corners, as discussed in this thread.

 

However, a closer reading will show that we are also near the WORST in two other respects. We have conceded 168 corners, worse only than West Brom and QPR. We are also FOURTH WORST AT CONCEDING GOALS FROM CORNERS, having conceded one goal every 21 corners. However, I bet no-one could have guessed the three teams who are worse than us: 1. Man City (1 goal every 16.2 corners); 2. Swansea (1/18.3). 3. Fulham (1/19.1). Nor that narrowly behind us in 5th place are Man U (1/21.8).

 

We are also JOINT WORST at the number of goals conceded from corners  (8), sharing that distinction with QPR,.

 

So, all in all, while the conclusion by the OP, that we concede too many corners, is spot on, the suggestions by others that we are crap at defending corners are also true.

 

Basically, in the corner department, we are pretty much rubbish all round apart from the dubious fact that opposition teams have failed to score against us from them 160 times (6.3 times per game)!

[TRO]

Can I put it much more simply.....we can't defend.

[Mantis]

We also can't score from corners either. I count one or two in the last 2 years.

[Kiwivillan]

We also can't score from corners either. I count one or two in the last 2 years.

 

Solution. Bannan should take corners. Are we all agreed?

[AstonMartin82]

Excluding cup games is fine for comparisons, but it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. We would be at Wembley if we could defend corners.

 

We have gone 2 years hardly scoring from a corner whereas on the flip side we have let David Silva score against us from a corner. That's unbelievably pathetic.

 

So, the conclusion is that because we aren't the worst in the league at corners we must really suck at something else as well as corners to be almost bottom of the Prem. From a holistic level I'm going to argue that the something else we suck at is football.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

So where in those stats does it tell people which corners were delivered with such precision delivery that it was basically undefendable and was also met with a bullet header from a 6ft 5 striker (for example) which was unstoppable?

And likewise, where does it say which corners were scored from a poorly delivered corner, but the resulting defending was so slapstick that the attacking team capitalised, and scored when one of their full backs got on the end of a scuffed clearance and knocked it into an empty net because the keeper had been hindered by his own defender?

These are obviously extreme scenarios, but as someone said - trust your eyes.

[Keyblade]

Sunderland have conceded 160 corners and defended all of them. Damn.

[hogso]

I think these stats demonstrate more the fact that a lot of teams are shit at taking corners, more so than defending. It's a mystery up there with giving up possession from your own throw in. How often these clearly very talented individuals fail to kick the ball in the general area of some of the 'big men' is really curious to me.

Our game against Spurs at home is a great example. They had, what, 15 in the first half was it? And did the sum total of **** all from all of them. Not the biggest team, granted, but from all of those you'd expect something. Newcastle were the same at VP. When Cabaye scored his goal it demonstrated extraordinarily accurate shooting ability. But his corners were almost exclusively over hit.

Players seem to rush them to me. I dunno. If it was me I'd take time and consideration over each one to deliver at least a half decent ball - look how long players can take when lining up a direct free kick at goal. And rightly so, it's a goal scoring opportunity after all.

Naturally what this thread has done is cursed the West Ham game. Carroll hat trick from corners, calling it now.

[Demitri_C]

if we have no one that can take set pieces how the hell can we defend them?

[briny_ear]

Should think Big Sam will just show the Wet Spam players a video of the 1-3 to Bradford and then let them loose down the wings.

[KHV]

We also can't score from corners either. I count one or two in the last 2 years.

 

Solution. Bannan should take corners. Are we all agreed?

he is the most accurate crosser in the league and has world class delivery so it makes sense

[Zatman]

We also can't score from corners either. I count one or two in the last 2 years.

 

Benteke vs reading was 1st since in league since Blackpool in 2010

[dudevillaisnice]

We also can't score from corners either. I count one or two in the last 2 years.

 

Benteke vs reading was 1st since in league since Blackpool in 2010

 

Truly shocking.

[Stevo985]

Not a heat map but...

 

Mat Kendrick has produced the table I was calling for!

 

 

Rather whimsically, Mat presents this as proof that in league matches we have one of the best records at defending corners because we have successfully defended 160, bettered only by QPR, West Brom and Sunderland.

 

This is true and it stems from the fact that we have conceded so many corners, as discussed in this thread.

 

However, a closer reading will show that we are also near the WORST in two other respects. We have conceded 168 corners, worse only than West Brom and QPR. We are also FOURTH WORST AT CONCEDING GOALS FROM CORNERS, having conceded one goal every 21 corners. However, I bet no-one could have guessed the three teams who are worse than us: 1. Man City (1 goal every 16.2 corners); 2. Swansea (1/18.3). 3. Fulham (1/19.1). Nor that narrowly behind us in 5th place are Man U (1/21.8).

 

We are also JOINT WORST at the number of goals conceded from corners  (8), sharing that distinction with QPR,.

 

So, all in all, while the conclusion by the OP, that we concede too many corners, is spot on, the suggestions by others that we are crap at defending corners are also true.

 

Basically, in the corner department, we are pretty much rubbish all round apart from the dubious fact that opposition teams have failed to score against us from them 160 times (6.3 times per game)!

 

 

But interesting that if you sorted that table by "Corners faced/goal" we'd be very near the bottom.

[mikeyp102]

Defended them pretty well today, but got really frustrated that towards the end we weren't leaving anyone on the half way line. Just invited pressure on us and allowed wear ham to put 9 men up..

[R.I.C.O.]

I think Lambert may have cottened on to the fact that if you put one on each post you tend to be able to clear corner chances. Although the defending today was still slightly slapstick, they all put themselves about a bit at set pieces, which stifled West Ham.

[DeepDish]

As people has said in this thread, one problem is that we give away too many corners. And one of the reasons we give away many corners is that we defend our corners poorly and give away corners when we defend a corner. Meaning that we get under even more pressure and our opponent is stacking up corners which they eventually will score from.