OutByEaster? Posted April 26, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2012 It's the same level of money going in. That's remained pretty much consistent throughout his tenure - it's just getting spent on different things. Spent might not be the right word - I've got a feeling that wasted might be more suitable - but from the simple perspective of how much money Lerner is putting in each year, it hasn't really changed. The losses we make now soak that investment up, whereas previously they allowed us to spend. It's not a lack of money, it's a lack of being able to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 The best thing Randy can do at the end of the season is appoint an independent auditor or reviewer to assess the club from top to bottom - facilities, staff, squad, academy - and lay down a no holds barred assessment of the club with a full set of recommendations for the future. He desperately needs guidance from someone who knows what they are talking about but with no vested interest in the club, its staff or its rivals. No more letters from the likes of Sir Alex. No more people like Faulkner or Fitzgerald bullshitting in his ear. He needs to take some responisbility for the club and arm himself with a plan to strip it all back and start again - hopefully from the bottom of the Premier League. I thought Fitzgerald left because he and Lerner had different ideas about how the club should be progressed, yes I suppose its a major assumption but then Fitzgerals at least does know the game where as Lerner hasnt a scooby doo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Simple question whether we stop up or go down can Lerner afford NOT to sack McLeish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummieboy1 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Abuse? I'd hardly call what he got the other night abuse, he was simply told to "**** off". Now granted it was by the vast majority of the highly dubious 32k attendance but that was the extent of the "abuse" he received. If they are surprised at that, if they are shocked by that after everything that has happened then they are naive, no they are more than that they are fools. What happened last night wasn't a reaction to conceding those two quick goals, it wasn't a reaction to losing that game it was a reaction to everything that has happened in the last 12 months if not the last 24 months. It was the moment the crowd turned but they didn't turn in a moment. I personally don't think they needed to say anything, whatever they said wasn't going to help matters unless they were informing us that McLeish had been removed from the job. There is nothing else they could say today that would have improved the situation, the irony is that we've for months and months wanted them to say more yet they stayed silent and now when they would be better off not saying anything they come out with this crap seemingly clueless to the fact it is going to do no good at all. I'm surprised how lenient the fans have been towards McLeish, I think they've been extremely patient considering the football that has been dished up all season. The crowd have turned on other managers a lot sooner, it's as if he's been given longer to prove himself because he came from Blues as fans didn't want to be seen by the media as not giving him a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I'm surprised how lenient the fans have been towards McLeish, I think they've been extremely patient considering the football that has been dished up all season. The crowd have turned on other managers a lot sooner, it's as if he's been given longer to prove himself because he came from Blues as fans didn't want to be seen by the media as not giving him a chance. i agree, i think the fans have been very patient, and i also think thats because he came from Bham City so we gave him an extra chance to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 As for the allegation of the lack of interest, I don't think that can so easily be dismissed. Nobody knows what Randy's level of interest is in the club at this moment in time, positive or negative but I think it is perfectly understandable why some feel he has lost interest. There are certainly some things that indicate this may be the case. I have recently demonstrated how much time that Mr Lerner has spent in Birmingham this season, which is more time than most foreign owners give to their club, and perfectly respectable for any non-domiciled businessman to spend on any business interest. Whether he uses that time wisely or capably is down to people's opinions, but this myth of 'stay away owner' is just that. Let's face it, if we were successful nobody would give a damn whether he turns up or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiezels Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Posted by a user in another thread, think it should be put here and mirrors my views. So the question as I see it is, I'm gonna get my bollocks cut off. You want to know whether I would like that done quickly with a sharp knife, have pain killers administered and then begin the healing process soon......ooooorrr do I want to have them cut off gradually using a spoon that will take around twelve months without any pain killers delying the healing process?? Hmmmm.......not much of a choice there is there?? The sooner McLeish leaves Aston Villa the better. If that means going down then so be it, at least the healing process will begin soon. HOWEVER.......I cannot see how whether we stay up or go down Randy has any other option but to terminate his employment. For those that argue he can't afford to sack him I would argue he can't afford NOT to sack him. Our attendance is down around 6000 on average this season. Over a season at £25 average ticket price thats around £3m. That could rise to 10000 or more if AM stays. Thats almost £6m. If we do go down and he keeps AM that will compound the lost revenue from attendances even further so if we go down it makes sense to get rid of him even more because Lerner will realise he will need all the fans money and support he can get. For those on here that have the opinion Lerner should go and is clueless I would say this. Lerner is guilty of the following: 1. Not listening to his fan base or understanding the gravity of appointing McLeish. I can understand this to a certain extent because as a boss sometimes you have to take an unpopular decision and go with what you believe over the advice of others. The skill in making these decisions is being honest enough to go, ok I **** up there I need to put that right. I think (hope) Randy is wise enough to do this. I'm confident this will be the case if you read point 2 2. Allowing MON to have too much say in the running of the club that ended in poor financial decisions being made that we are having to rectify now. This would have happened regardless of the manager and I believe the way the club is being run from a finance point of view is the right way now to ensure Villa do not become the next Leeds / Pompey. 3. Listening to people who are giving him very poor advice on football matters. I think we'll probably find that Randy has learned (if you'll excuse the pun) a great deal about running a football club, Aston Villa as a business and an institution this season and also whom he should not have any trust in the next time they offer advice. I think Randy is an excellent patron of Aston Villa who undoubtedly has the good of Aston Villa and its long term future at heart he just listens to the wrong people in the critical matters. I don't imagine a man as wealthy as he is will not use the experience of this season and come back better for it. For those who want rid of him, I understand that point of view and can see where its born from but as the old saying goes be careful what you wish for cos we might just get it!! ( see Venky's / Gillette's / Shinawatra / Yeung / Sullivans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
switters Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 I'm surprised how lenient the fans have been towards McLeish, I think they've been extremely patient considering the football that has been dished up all season. The crowd have turned on other managers a lot sooner, it's as if he's been given longer to prove himself because he came from Blues as fans didn't want to be seen by the media as not giving him a chance. i agree, i think the fans have been very patient, and i also think thats because he came from Bham City so we gave him an extra chance to improve. I think it's actually because fans burnt out on protesting in the summer before the season started. If owners don't listen before they hire him, they're hardly going to turn around and sack him if you protest again a few months later.. Once it had been McUnLeished on us, we were pretty powerless. Had to wait until it got really bad before the fanbase was energized enough to really try again..lots of draws and drab football just sapped the spirit from everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendi Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Randy plain and simple listen to us if not your going to have a empty stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 He hasn't pulled investment. There's nothing to indicate disinterest. There's lots to indicate some very poor decision making, which I think you can judge as naivety, foolishness, recklessness or idiocy based on your preference - but the amount of investment has remained pretty much consistent since the day he arrived. No it hasn't. edit: In 2009 Lerner stuck in £70m. £35m in shares and the same in loans. Last year it was £12.5m share capital, and £12.5m loans. How is that not pulling investment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlitobrigante Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Our net investment in player purchases for the last 6 years according to Soccerbase. 2006/2007 £21m spend 2007/2008 £2m profit 2008/2009 £31m spend 2009/2010 £3m spend 2010/2011 £11 profit 2011/2012 £7m profit That to me doesn't appear to be a consistent level of investment in this aspect of the club. Oh and just to add according to those figures that means we've made a net investment of circa £35m in 6 years, a little under £6m a season. oh and before someone says it, working out the average annual net spend doesn't in anyway mean that the investment has been consistent. No mention of the wage bill there i see, which has increased massively under his tenure, which accounts for a lot more than 6mill a year at a guess... he was doing fine till his bust up with MON, since then the big decisions he has had to take, he has gotten massively wrong, and worse the fanbase told him as such each time... im worried about his decision making, and no longer have any confidence in the people running the club. buts its an untruth to say he doesnt care about us, or that he hasnt pumped enough money in imo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 26, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2012 The wage bill is covered by turnover, a large percentage of it granted but covered nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 The wage bill is covered by turnover, a large percentage of it granted but covered nonetheless. yet we still lost £54m on the last released figures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpabloangel18 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 It's becoming harder and harder to sympathise with Lerner and co, thats for sure. If you're going to introduce an austerity program, fine. at least appoint a manager we can get behind (not the polar opposite), be honest with our league ambitions (5th this season, anyone?), and have the decency not to lie to us through club statements - which are almost as painful to read as it is to watch us crumble week after week on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 26, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 26, 2012 He hasn't pulled investment. There's nothing to indicate disinterest. There's lots to indicate some very poor decision making, which I think you can judge as naivety, foolishness, recklessness or idiocy based on your preference - but the amount of investment has remained pretty much consistent since the day he arrived. No it hasn't. edit: In 2009 Lerner stuck in £70m. £35m in shares and the same in loans. Last year it was £12.5m share capital, and £12.5m loans. How is that not pulling investment? I stand corrected. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 It's becoming harder and harder to sympathise with Lerner and co, thats for sure. If you're going to introduce an austerity program, fine. at least appoint a manager we can get behind (not the polar opposite) Agreed... Particularly when Lerner isn't at VP fighting with us and witnessing the weekly struggle that's just painful to watch. Randy Lerner needs to be at VP watching the games to see what the problems are surely?!! Unless of course he selling up?!!... which I've been hearing a few rumours is definitely on the cards lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 He hasn't been for months but in his defence he DID attend the Bolton debacle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancsVillan Posted April 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 27, 2012 Our net investment in player purchases for the last 6 years according to Soccerbase. 2006/2007 £21m spend 2007/2008 £2m profit 2008/2009 £31m spend 2009/2010 £3m spend 2010/2011 £11 profit 2011/2012 £7m profit That to me doesn't appear to be a consistent level of investment in this aspect of the club. Oh and just to add according to those figures that means we've made a net investment of circa £35m in 6 years, a little under £6m a season. oh and before someone says it, working out the average annual net spend doesn't in anyway mean that the investment has been consistent. Not going into too much detail but soccerbase has the following as 'signed' with no monetary value for 2009/10. IN: Warnock, Beye and Delph IIRC the Warnock was about £5m, Delph £7m (and rising ... seemingly to £7m on current form and achievements) and Beye £2.5m. So although the investment has wained in the latter years it is still there. Also the wages went up hugely.... which is an investment too and one that unchecked would have seen us even more financially restricted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 He hasn't been for months but in his defence he DID attend the Bolton debacle And spend another five and a half days at the club. I don't get this thing that he needs to attend matches. In general foreign owners don't attend matches, and it makes no difference to the majority of he VP crowd whether the owner attends or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BkkVilla Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 F off Lerner you blue nose t-wat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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