The Randy Lerner thread

[avfc1982]

Just now, blandy said:

Sadly yes.5 years after winning the European cup, we finished bottom of the (then) first division, under Ellis after years of being absolute pants as a result of his ineptitude and destruction of what he inherited.

Drivel. 

I was a season ticket holder back then and I can tell you that nothing that happened in that era was anywhere near as humiliating as what's happened these last 6 years. As I said, I don't ever remember us smashing every nightmare record this club has ever set. Also we had about 2 poor seasons before being relegated in '87 then he got us straight back up where we've been ever since. Contrast this to today in the midst of our 6th relegation battle on the trot (something that's never happened before in my life) and staring relegation in the face. Couple this with the humiliating records we've set I can honestly this is the worst I've ever felt as a Villa fan. 

And yes I would take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. At least he never abandoned us. 

[PussEKatt]

Can anyone with a buisness sence explain to me, why a person would spend over 1 million on anything and then let it rust away ?! 

[dounavilla]

Stupidity.

Idiocy.

Complacency.

 

[Grasshopper]

9 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

Can anyone with a buisness sence explain to me, why a person would spend over 1 million on anything and then let it rust away ?! 

Someone who is prepared to spend around a tenth of his wealth.

discounting my assets and my business debts I have about £1500 in cash to play with

so a shopping spree for some new jeans a shirt & tie (£150 = 10th) is about as irrelevat to Me as AVFC to RL it seems

Edited January 18, 2016 by Grasshopper

[blandy]

11 minutes ago, avfc1982 said:

Drivel. 

I was a season ticket holder back then and I can tell you that nothing that happened in that era was anywhere near as humiliating as what's happened these last 6 years. As I said, I don't ever remember us smashing every nightmare record this club has ever set. Also we had about 2 poor seasons before being relegated in '87 then he got us straight back up where we've been ever since. Contrast this to today in the midst of our 6th relegation battle on the trot (something that's never happened before in my life) and staring relegation in the face. Couple this with the humiliating records we've set I can honestly this is the worst I've ever felt as a Villa fan. 

And yes I would take Ellis over Lerner any day of the week. At least he never abandoned us. 

It's not drivel - I had a season ticket too. Mind you i can appreciate why you might have mentally erased it. But we were getting regular thrashings from all kinds - remember Arsenal beat us 6-1, or maybe 6-2  I think it was, at home. Forest, beat us 5-0 at home, Leicester thrashed us 5-0, Southampton thrashed us as well - by the time we were flushed down a division we were as much or more of a shambles than we are now.

 

And as for Ellis never abandoning us - well no, because he was taking money from the club. He might be loathesome, but he's not an idiot.

[Dante_Lockhart]

We get £100m if we finish bottom? WTF?

[Grasshopper]

2 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

We get £100m if we finish bottom? WTF?

Anyone out there who can lend me £99.999,99 for a couple of months (no interest btw) So I can offer RL £100mill for AVFC?

[avfc1982]

7 minutes ago, blandy said:

It's not drivel - I had a season ticket too. Mind you i can appreciate why you might have mentally erased it. But we were getting regular thrashings from all kinds - remember Arsenal beat us 6-1, or maybe 6-2  I think it was, at home. Forest, beat us 5-0 at home, Leicester thrashed us 5-0, Southampton thrashed us as well - by the time we were flushed down a division we were as much or more of a shambles than we are now.

 

And as for Ellis never abandoning us - well no, because he was taking money from the club. He might be loathesome, but he's not an idiot.

We were relegated and bounced straight back. The bad days lasted, what, 2 years maximum perhaps a tad more? This has been a 6 season relegation fight. Did Ellis ever inflict that onto us? Not a chance mate.

and no he didn't abandon us and let us rot away at the wrong end of the table for 6 years breaking every shitty record the club had ever had the misfortune to set and turn us into a national laughing stock no matter how much you try and convince me he did. In fact he was proactive, and when the club seemed to be on a downward spiral he would sack the manager and give the new man money to spend and we always improved. The only reason he sold up was because he was too old. As I said I'd take him and his faults over the charlatan than is Randy Lerner any day of the week. He's a bloody disgrace. 

[Zatman]

4 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Jeremy Cross did absolutely no fact checking before writing that article, which is a shame because I admire the sentiment.

do you not remember us finishing 6th in 2011

[HanoiVillan]

I see the evergreen 'who's worse, Ellis or Lerner' discussion is as near to a conclusion as ever. 

[avfc1982]

12 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I see the evergreen 'who's worse, Ellis or Lerner' discussion is as near to a conclusion as ever. 

To some though, if you ever slag off Lerner you get you get the standard "he was better than Ellis" retort from his apologists. 

Well he wasn't. He was and is worse. 

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Doug Ellis inflicted on us a purposeful and spiteful dismantling of the European squad, whilst making the ridiculous decision to appoint the manager of Shrewsbury when the job was way too big for him; he then compounded that by employing the worst manger we've ever suffered (and one of the only managers to have managed two relegated clubs in one season). 

Nigel Spink and Gary Thompson are totally unforgiving of him still. Spinks blames Ellis directly for ripping apart that squad and said the club was a total embarrassment. 

People bang on how we bounced back, but forget how we almost fell through the trapdoor again due to Ellis's failed gamble on Dr Jo. 

And this is all ignoring his first failed stint in which the club really did fall to its lowest ever ebb in the third division. 

And I'll ask this: if Doug Ellis had retained control of the club in 2006 and tried to carry on as our owner, would we now even have a club left to support? 

Edited January 18, 2016 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[Guest av1]

2 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

Can anyone with a buisness sence explain to me, why a person would spend over 1 million on anything and then let it rust away ?! 

The answer is in the question, he has none.

[Demitri_C]

29 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

Doug Ellis inflicted on us a purposeful and spiteful dismantling of the European squad, whilst making the ridiculous decision to appoint the manager of Shrewsbury when the job was way too big for him; he then compounded that by employing the worst manger we've ever suffered (and one of the only managers to have managed two relegated clubs in one season). 

Nigel Spink and Gary Thompson are totally unforgiving of him still. Spinks blames Ellis directly for ripping apart that squad and said the club was a total embarrassment. 

People bang on how we bounced back, but forget how we almost fell through the trapdoor again due to Ellis's failed gamble on Dr Jo. 

And this is all ignoring his first failed stint in which the club really did fall to its lowest ever ebb in the third division. 

And I'll ask this: if Doug Ellis had retained control of the club in 2006 and tried to carry on as our owner, would we now even have a club left to support? 

Not saying that time was bad, but how about Lerners managerial failures. He appoints Houllier who had a history of heart problems and he lasted 6 months before G-Mac took over. then he makes the biggest stupidest blunder by offering the job to the manager of our most hated club (who he relegated I might add) Mcleish never had  achance from day one because of where he was from so he left and he had to get a pay off.

Then Lerner for once actually listened got who a majority of the fans wanted in Lambert. He started well but then was failing. But out of pig headedness didnt sack him. then waited until THREE games into the season to hand him a new contract and then sacking him less than 12 months in.

Following that another masterstroke bringing a completely inexperienced manager in Sherwood who again was sacked less than 12 months in. If you ask me both as bad as each other in that sense, but for me Lerner is worse because he is close to a billionare and still treats the club like a championship club with his peanut transfer budgets and has failed miserably. 

 

[blandy]

3 hours ago, avfc1982 said:

The bad days lasted, what, 2 years maximum perhaps a tad more? ....This has been a 6 season relegation fight

That's not true though, is it? I'm not defending Lerner here, but commenting on selective memory. Ellis's bad years numbered far more than 2, both consecutively and in total, and no we haven't spent the last 6 years fighting relegation. These are facts.

But ultimately you're quite entitled to feel what you say about how bad  RL is and how much better Ellis was, and I'm not going to change your mind, nor you mine.

They've both been bad for the club.

[Richard]

Supporter: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.

(The owner does not respond.)

S: 'Ello, Miss?

Owner: What do you mean "miss"?

S: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!

O: We're closin' for the season.

S: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this football club what I purchased a ST for not half a season ago from this very ticket shop.

O: Oh yes, the, uh, the Claret N Blue...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?

S: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!

O: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting.

S: Look, matey, I know a dead club when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

O: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable club, the Claret N Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage!

S: The plumage don't enter into it. It's stone dead.

O: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!

S: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up!

(shouting at the coach)

'Ello, Mister Garde! I've got a lovely fresh tomatoe to throw at you if you show...(owner appoints figurehead)

O: There, he moved!

S: No, he didn't, that was you putting another sop in place!

O: I never!!

S: Yes, you did!

O: I never, never did anything...

S: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) 'ELLO GARDEY!!!!!

Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your half season wake up call!

(Takes Season Ticket out of pocket and thumps on the ground. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)

S: Now that's what I call a dead club.

O: No, no.....No, 'e's stunned!

S: STUNNED?!?

O: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! Claret N Blues stun easily, major.

S: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That Club is definitely deceased, and when I purchased the ST not 'alf a season ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged battle under the wrong manager.

O: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the Jordans.

S: PININ' for the JORDANS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got my ST home?

O: The Claret N Blue prefers playing with no investment! Remarkable club, id'nit, squire? Lovely plumage!

S: Look, I took the liberty of examining the club when I got my ST home, and I discovered the only reason that it had not gone down years ago in the first place was that it had been NAILED there by a Benteke.

(pause)

O: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that club down, it would have nuzzled up to those barcodes, bent 'em apart with its beak, and VOOM! Feeweeweewee!

S: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this club wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!

O: No no! 'E's pining!

S: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This club is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!

'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you had given more investment it wouldnt be pushing up the daisies!
'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!
'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!

THIS IS AN EX-CLUB!!

(pause)

O: Well, I'd better replace a few players, then.

(he takes a quick peek behind the counter)

O: Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh, we're right out of cash.

S: I see. I see, I get the picture.

O: I got a retired loan signing.

(pause)

S: (sweet as sugar) Pray, does it run?

O: Nnnnot really.

S: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?

O: Look, if you go to my brother's pet shop in Bolton, he'll give you a new chairman

C: Bolton, eh? Very well.

The customer leaves.

The customer enters the same pet shop. The owner is putting on a false moustache.

C: This is Bolton, is it?

O: (with a fake mustache) No, it's Ipswitch.

[avfc1982]

48 minutes ago, blandy said:

That's not true though, is it? I'm not defending Lerner here, but commenting on selective memory. Ellis's bad years numbered far more than 2, both consecutively and in total, and no we haven't spent the last 6 years fighting relegation. These are facts.

But ultimately you're quite entitled to feel what you say about how bad  RL is and how much better Ellis was, and I'm not going to change your mind, nor you mine.

They've both been bad for the club.

It is true. We were relegated in '87 after a couple of years of struggle (if that), then we bounced straight back and have been here ever since. Sure we had the occasional bad season under Ellis in the years that followed but nothing like the 6 seasons of hellish relegation battles and the humiliations that have come with them since from Lerner. 

This isn't me making things up, this is how it happened. For all his faults Ellis didn't abandon the club like Lerner has done. It's criminal sabotage in my book. Shame on Lerner. 

[blandy]

On 10 January 2016 at 11:53, DeepDish said:

At least we will get a decent manager.

mid table 9th wan't it  - less than 5 years ago.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Jeremy Cross did absolutely no fact checking before writing that article, which is a shame because I admire the sentiment.

do you not remember us finishing 6th in 2011 [emoji6]

Maybe he read it upside down.

[thabucks]

2 hours ago, avfc1982 said:

It is true. We were relegated in '87 after a couple of years of struggle (if that), then we bounced straight back and have been here ever since. Sure we had the occasional bad season under Ellis in the years that followed but nothing like the 6 seasons of hellish relegation battles and the humiliations that have come with them since from Lerner. 

This isn't me making things up, this is how it happened. For all his faults Ellis didn't abandon the club like Lerner has done. It's criminal sabotage in my book. Shame on Lerner. 

Criminal sabotage ? What like tearing down the old Trinity Road stand rather than sympathetically restoring, letting the Holte hotel fall into a state of such disrepair. Refusing to pay for a pitch so we ended up playing on painted sand? Lerner has neglected us  yes but I'd say your statement is a tad OTT referring to criminal sabotage. 

You say at at least Doug didnt abandon the club, yet he let it fall by the wayside financially (as has Lerner) but answer me this...How much money did Doug put into the club Vs take out ? 

His much has Lerner put in to taken out? 

Occasional bad season ? We were shite under both and have been good under both. Different eras and timescales. We did win x2 cup finals under Doug but over an ownership period over twice as long. 

Both are bad for differing reasons. No revisionism required. It's not a case of one being good one being bad. Both have been bad for the club and have also done good. 

Lerner has tried and failed and is trying to find someone to take us forward. Can't ask for much more to be (realistically) honest.