Manager Paul Lambert

[sharkyvilla]

I can see why Lambert tried to keep a tighter formation to start with, it's just we defended badly and even so I would have started Lowton instead of Sylla, so I think he made the wrong call. It seemed to me that the 3 who came on were fit to play just about a half, if you want to start them and take them off that's up to you but I think trying to keep it tight until an hour's up and then bring them on against tired players was the more logical approach. I certainly don't think he deserves the doom mongering that was on here. Fact is we've got the players hopefully fit enough for Sunderland at home at the weekend so hopefully we can repeat last year's performance and get to 18 points and safely mid-table without even hitting our stride yet.

[Spoony]

We are 12th on an absolute shoestring budget and a threadbare squad. I think he deserves credit for that.

If yesterday showed us anything it is how unready for the PL some of these players are and also how screwed we are when ANY first XI are injured. We desperately need more players of PL quality but unless Lerner allows Lambert to do that then we are going to keep having this problem. Lambert can and should keep us out of the bottom 3 with what he's got at his disposal, but that's probably about it.

Basically, until Lerner sells up or reinvests then we're going to be having the same discussions until Lambert leaves.

[Stevo985]

Ironically 3 of the best 4 players Lambert has are nothing to do with him !!

Bollocks

[darrenm]

I can see why Lambert tried to keep a tighter formation to start with, it's just we defended badly and even so I would have started Lowton instead of Sylla, so I think he made the wrong call. It seemed to me that the 3 who came on were fit to play just about a half, if you want to start them and take them off that's up to you but I think trying to keep it tight until an hour's up and then bring them on against tired players was the more logical approach. I certainly don't think he deserves the doom mongering that was on here. Fact is we've got the players hopefully fit enough for Sunderland at home at the weekend so hopefully we can repeat last year's performance and get to 18 points and safely mid-table without even hitting our stride yet.

Towards the end of the match Gabby looked like he needed a zimmer frame. I don't think the 3 were fit enough to even come on at all. It was a gamble and it paid off for him. I wouldn't have risked them and taken the loss.

[Raver50032]

So... will the same team start versus les chats noires?

Edited November 26, 2013 by Raver50032

[Stevo985]

 

I can see why Lambert tried to keep a tighter formation to start with, it's just we defended badly and even so I would have started Lowton instead of Sylla, so I think he made the wrong call. It seemed to me that the 3 who came on were fit to play just about a half, if you want to start them and take them off that's up to you but I think trying to keep it tight until an hour's up and then bring them on against tired players was the more logical approach. I certainly don't think he deserves the doom mongering that was on here. Fact is we've got the players hopefully fit enough for Sunderland at home at the weekend so hopefully we can repeat last year's performance and get to 18 points and safely mid-table without even hitting our stride yet.

Towards the end of the match Gabby looked like he needed a zimmer frame. I don't think the 3 were fit enough to even come on at all. It was a gamble and it paid off for him. I wouldn't have risked them and taken the loss.

 

Yep

 

and you just know that if we'd started with those three, had to take them off after 45 or 60 minutes and then petered out towards the end, he'd be getting slated, by the same people, for starting players who weren't fit.

[romavillan]

Looking at the table, it looks to be split in two and we are in the top group of the bottom clubs. That's a big improvement on the last couple of years already. We will only get better. We've given a bit of experience to Tonev and Kozak. They haven't exactly exploded on to the premier league scene but they have shown signs of getting better. Last year we had a lot of players in that situation and they have all improved, I expect the same to be true for them. So as a squad we're stronger, we've managed to get points without the three we brought on at the hour mark last night so that speaks for itself.

With those three back last night, the fans and the players on the pitch all of a sudden believed it was doable. They only trained once on Friday according to Lambert so I think he was right not to start them. They should all be back for Sunderland at home after workign a full week on the training ground with the others. Let's hope Benteke wakes up too and we shoudl get on to 18 points. Not bad I reckon really, considering we haven't come near the form of the back end of last season yet and we still have players who will improve the squad from last year. 

The start was horrendous last night, but by the time Kozak clipped the bar, even without the subs coming on we had grown back into the game and were threatening more than they were. The fact we've picked up 7 points from losing positions and scored 4 goals in two games without BEnteke on the score sheet are all big plusses for me. I think Lambert is doing some good work and should be getting a bit more credit than he is on here.

[Stevo985]

So... will the same team start versus les chats noires?

I imagine the 3 that came on yesterday will start if they're fit.

 

As they would have last night. If they were fit.

[PieFacE]

Pieface we are maybe best agreeing to disagree. I just wondered what your thoughts were on 4-4-2 compared to 3-5-2. If you were to ask most managers what they thought was the more attacking they'll tell you 4-4-2. But anyway the point I was making is if the players passed the ball better tonight then the formation would have effectively went to a 2-6-2 when we had the ball. It means your two full-backs become wide midfielders. Anyway, not much point is going on and on about this.

 

Here is a wee nugget for you though. What would you have done as half-time? Would you have went in and kicked backside, gave Bacuna pelters for his mistakes and went off your head at most of them?

 

Or would you have went in, told everyone to be quiet, told them everyone was in it together and that they were going to go out and get the next goal and that it would change the game and it was a match we wouldn't lose?

 

Just wondering how you would have dealt with things at the interval? We've discussed tactics so may as well discuss man-management styles?

Well maybe we should agree to disagree. But you won't see many teams go to the Hawthorns this year and play with 4 in midfield against their 5. They have the ability to move the ball very quick. Do you not think our inability to pass the ball was down to their forward 6 (including Long) pressing us making it difficult? Every time the ball went into Westwood, Sylla or KEA, WBA could double press because of the extra man they had in midfield. 

 

If you genuinely believe that the best formation we could have started with last night was the one we did start with then fair enough. I respect your opinion and I'm glad you gave the time to defend it. But for me, it was still a huge mistake. An obvious one to make too imo. Which has me worried about Lambert. If I can see that, your average joe, why can't Lambert? Had it worked i'd be on here hailing Lambert as a genius, because to choose that formation made no sense at all to me. But he had a better team of fit players at his disposal to play last night which would have kept things much tighter til about the 70 minute mark, then bring on the subs and go for it.

 

At half-time, if I was Lambert, I wouldn't have shouted at anyone other than myself for making the error I did. I personally don't feel Lambert gave the players a fair chance in the first half. So I would have taken full responsibility for it and changed the formation. Which is pretty much what I said to do in the Match thread.  But I would have definitely been calm about it. I would have reminded them of what happened there last season when  we were 2-0 up at HT and ended up drawing 2-2, and to keep the faith. (i said that in the Match thread too haha) I would have asked them to prove a point that we're capable and have character. 

 

What did you do Lambert?

[Stevo985]

 

 

 

At half-time, if I was Lambert, I wouldn't have shouted at anyone other than myself for making the error I did. I personally don't feel Lambert gave the players a fair chance in the first half. So I would have taken full responsibility for it and changed the formation. Which is pretty much what I said to do in the Match thread.  But I would have definitely been calm about it. I would have reminded them of what happened there last season when  we were 2-0 up at HT and ended up drawing 2-2, and to keep the faith. (i said that in the Match thread too haha) I would have asked them to prove a point that we're capable and have character. 

 

What did you do Lambert?

 

Given Westwood's comments on the radio this morning, it sounds like this was pretty much exactly what Lambert did.

[HeyAnty]

It's funny that since Villa came from behind to get a draw this place will be very positive, but had they gone up 2-0 and drawn it would be very negative, despite the fact that either way it's 2-2

Dont know how it could be positive. For 3/4 of the game we were shocking. How El Amahdi stayed on i'll never know.

This is possibly the most bizarre post I've ever read on here considering what has just happened.

Really, the most bizarre ever? You must not read many posts. Villa got the result yes but stoke got plenty of results last year and thats the way we are playing. If people on here happy with that then so be it, but i will never be.

Our highest pass combination last night between 2 players (by more than 50%) was by Guzan and Bentekke. This great play last night lambert is going on about, we cant string 3 passes together even with our 3 main guys coming on.

Also El Amahdi was terrible and u are letting his goal cloud your judgement

[PieFacE]

 

 

 

 

At half-time, if I was Lambert, I wouldn't have shouted at anyone other than myself for making the error I did. I personally don't feel Lambert gave the players a fair chance in the first half. So I would have taken full responsibility for it and changed the formation. Which is pretty much what I said to do in the Match thread.  But I would have definitely been calm about it. I would have reminded them of what happened there last season when  we were 2-0 up at HT and ended up drawing 2-2, and to keep the faith. (i said that in the Match thread too haha) I would have asked them to prove a point that we're capable and have character. 

 

What did you do Lambert?

 

Given Westwood's comments on the radio this morning, it sounds like this was pretty much exactly what Lambert did.

 

haha... maybe I should take up a role in management. 

[villaglint]

Yeah everyone is ripping into Lambert for the formation but his ability to change it was fairly limited.

 

It really exposes how paper thin our squad is, especially from an attacking perspective.

 

 - I think the combination of Westwood, KEA and Schilla is not one which helps us to connect the midfield to the strikers. All three are pretty risk averse to passing which is fine but when the whole midfield has that mentality it is impossible to feed the front two.

 

 - We cannot rely on Tonev to carve teams open for us. He may well come good but he has a way to go yet.

 

 - Schilla is not and never has been a wide midfield player. I think that pick would be my major criticism of Lambert in what was pretty tough circumstances. Between him and Bacuna we had no balance on that side. It may well have been equally disastrous but I'd have gone for Bacuna and Lowton. It looked like it could work in the last 20 mins against Cardiff. We have now seen two games to suggest Schilla and Bacuna doesn't work. It reminded of Herd playing RM against Everton at home last year and that was a game I didn't want to think about again.

[VillaCas]

I hear all the arguments, about the lack of funds, and the resulting lack of quality,but sometimes its the basics we are talking about.

 

2 critical actions by Shane Long and Ashley Westwood tonight ....their first touch for both their goals, sublime.

 

both are modest buys.

 

we need to be more mindful when signing players of their ball craft, and ability to hold the ball with comfort.

 

What an absolutely pointless post!! So you're saying, when we sign players, make sure they're good.....brilliant!!

[VillaForever1970]

People still moaning?

 

Okay... a few fairly obvious facts.

 

We’ve CLEARLY improved from last season.

We’ve beaten both Arsenal and City both so called top four sides, good.

We have a pretty decent record coming from behind and get something out of the game, one of the best in the league intact.

Were keeping more clean sheets and defending better.

 

All points would have been almost impossible last season.

 

What do people expect going from absolute shite to amazing? Its not going to happen, we’ll still be shit sometimes, the players and Lambert will still make mistakes but we’ll also perform well sometimes.

 

We’re inconstant, along with every other club. Everyone apart from people who loving moaning and clearly have an agenda can see it. Some Villa fans just refuse to understand the concept of things taking time.

[mikeyp102]

Here is something to chew on. Lets forget the three injured players. How about having a wee think about how Lambert handled being 2-0 down at half-time. Now had most of us been in his shoes we would have slaughtered the players.

You would have given Baker pelters for the first goal. Yes, it was a great goal by Long but look at the amount of time the ball was in the air. He should be cutting that out so it was poor play. Bacuna's pass for the second was a disgrace. Shocking decision. Thereafter, everyone went into a shell.

So how do you deal with that at the interval. Surely, you go in and give several of them pelters. Not Lambert.

Sat the players down and pretty much said everyone was to blame. Team game - we don't point the finger. But what he did tell them was that we were going to score the next goal and we wouldn't lose the game. There was no ranting and raving. It was calm, it was assured and (along with the three subs of course!) it helped changed things after the break.

The players responded to it. Now I mention this because the manager gets criticised on here for being "too narrow" - absolute bollocks actually - but his half-time team talk was brilliant last night.......or so I've been told :P

HH you have made some interesting points. But I would have to disagree about us being too narrow being "absolute bollocks". On the left Tonev and Clark did offer some width and outlet for the team, but down the right if Bacuna couldn't get forward we had nothing there. There were numerous times when both Benteke and Westwood (probably others as well) had the ball 40 odd yards from goal looked right for a pass but no one was there so they had to check back and either go through the congested middle or go back. In my eyes we needed a wider player there to give the attack more balance. This happened when Andi and Gabby came on.

[PieFacE]

People still moaning?

 

Okay... a few fairly obvious facts.

 

We’ve CLEARLY improved from last season.

We’ve beaten both Arsenal and City both so called top four sides, good.

We have a pretty decent record coming from behind and get something out of the game, one of the best in the league intact.

Were keeping more clean sheets and defending better.

 

All points would have been almost impossible last season.

 

What do people expect going from absolute shite to amazing? Its not going to happen, we’ll still be shit sometimes, the players and Lambert will still make mistakes but we’ll also perform well sometimes.

 

We’re inconstant, along with every other club. Everyone apart from people who loving moaning and clearly have an agenda can see it. Some Villa fans just refuse to understand the concept of things taking time.

As i said to you in the other thread. Not one person has disputed the fact that we've improved from last season so we all agree with you. So I don't know who you're aiming this at.

[BOF]

Three of our best players are only just back from injury.  They only started training on Friday.  It would have been negligent of Lambert to start them as we could have lost them to longer-term injury.  Add to that, our most recent game was a 2-0 win over Cardiff and you can see why Lambert probably felt it wouldn't be that ridiculous to start this game with that team.  They won last time out and it protects our 3 returning players.  Worthy of criticism?  I don't think so.

 

After a dismal first half, he reacts to the situation and makes the decision to change it around bringing the 3 amigos on for the last 35 minutes.  From then onwards, with something far closer to our strongest side on the pitch, we man-handled West Brom and showed that with all things being equal, we are the better side.  I know HairyHands is saying the formation didn't change after the substitutions and that may be right on paper, but the personnel employed in those positions after the change effectively meant that their positions did change because all of a sudden everyone knew what they were doing.  For whatever reason, Clark became more central.  We basically played with a back 3.  Delph the "left back" was a wing back, Bacuna became comfortable as a bona fide wing back, while Vlaar moved across to accommodate Clark in a back 3.

 

The pace of Weimann & Gabby single-handedly pushed their backline towards Myhill and even with what appears to be a somewhat shell-shocked Benteke up front we played very well from central midfield.  A much-maligned central midfield, I might add.

 

This team is alright y'know.  Yes they don't appear to have strength in depth, although I'd argue most sides would be affected by having 3 of their most important players missing.  Four if you count that Benteke isn't long after an injury himself and clearly still doesn't look to be over it.  It must be awkward for those who are absolutely hell-bent on using anything and everything to castigate Lambert that his starting line-up was understandable given the Cardiff result and his actions to recover the game showed an ability to use his subs and to modify his tactics or at least re-jig the personnel to achieve the same thing.

 

The next game is going to be very interesting.  I'm just relieved we'll have all the key men back for it and I'd hope we'll start that game with the players that ended this one.

[Morpheus]

Having read with interest many of the posts in this thread after last night's game i wish to state that there have been some very good points made.

 

One point alluded to the fact that three of our most influential players last night was nothing to do with Lambert (not Lambert signings) and got the reply 'bollocks.' That response actually made me chuckle as it came from a very well respected source.

 

The fact is that before those players came on we could and should have been five down and unfortunately most of the team that started the game last night were Lambert signings. Clearly, (although he has had a limited budget to play with) most of Lambert's signings haven't got the type of quality to push us on where we want to go. Another source made the point that having one quality player on a higher wage would be more affective than having two on average wages and i have to agree with that.

 

Before Gabby, Delph and Weimann came on we looked like a mid table Championship team who couldn't string two passes together and the only way to get into the opposition's half was to hoof it. It was that dire and it was Lambert's signings producing that tripe.

 

I've also noted it said that it was 'a brave' decision alluding to being a masterstroke by Lambert bringing those three players on. To be blunt what else was he going to do and as another poster said if any of us had been in the manager's chair last night would we have done anything differently.

 

I wasn't sure about Lambert when he first came to the club and i'm still not sure about him as he hasn't shown me anything either in the transfer market or tactically that he can move us forward. Yes we have more points this season than at the same stage last season but i tend to judge what i see on the pitch rather than statistics and at the moment we are still a very poor team. 

Edited November 26, 2013 by Morpheus

[LondonLax]

I'd like to see Luna come in for Baker and move Clark back in to the middle but other than that I agree with BOF.

Edited November 26, 2013 by LondonLax