sharkyvilla Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, fruitvilla said: Normally this OK ... eg Obama did not suddenly become unfit and improper ... even Dubya, at least by current standards. True but even so it seems glacial and a pretty pointless ceremonial waste of time nowadays. I hope Biden and co try to modernise the transition period but it probably was written down hundreds of years ago that it's the way it has to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 44 minutes ago, LondonLax said: My take is that if Trump is still a player in the game in 4 years time that is a bigger problem for the Republicans than for the Democrats. He will be less popular to swing voters and moderate conservatives than he is now but will have a significant chunk of the current Republican base wedded to him no matter what. He will need to be distanced from the Republican Party if they are going to have a chance to win an election again, otherwise they might as well rebadge the ‘Grand Old Party’ as the MAGA party and ride it into the ground but if he’s still holding his MAGA voters whilst he’s running as a third party candidate the Democrats will saunter to a clear victory under that scenario as well. There is no coming back from this for Trump. But if he's not thrown in prison, he will become like a warlord with his own standing army of thousands of radical violent psychopaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I still think what Bill Clinton did was worse. Lewinski could have sucked out the nuke codes. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 So that’s what, 4 or 5 Republicans who have pretty much nailed their colours to the mast in voting for impeachment, you’d think with their influence too they’ll be able to bring another 1-2 each along so that’s going to get pretty close to the 17 they need for the majority right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 32 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: True but even so it seems glacial and a pretty pointless ceremonial waste of time nowadays. I hope Biden and co try to modernise the transition period but it probably was written down hundreds of years ago that it's the way it has to be. I suppose compared to the UK ... there is a huge switch in the US administration versus the UK civil service 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 57 minutes ago, Awol said: Just following ‘legal orders’. You missed out the key word for some reason? Because it's not key, it's otiose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, snowychap said: otiose My word of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 It’s legal if its legal is a really scary view of the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Keyblade said: There's no morality in question here. It's a website enforcing its TOS which include, rather reasonably I'd personally say, not inciting violence on its platform. A violation of which typically results in a ban. What is the moral objection here? I'm failing to see one. Beyond that, was his ban unfair based on the TOS that he agreed to when signing up for that platform? For example would you be censored if @limpid hit you with a hot ban for calling me a word removed? Or would you just be breaking the rules of the site and are being punished for doing so? What's the problem here? Very good post. Would be nice to see a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, maqroll said: There is no coming back from this for Trump. But if he's not thrown in prison, he will become like a warlord with his own standing army of thousands of radical violent psychopaths. I suspect you're rather over-estimating his commitment and frankly, his energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Keyblade said: There's no morality in question here. It's a website enforcing its TOS which include, rather reasonably I'd personally say, not inciting violence on its platform. A violation of which typically results in a ban. What is the moral objection here? I'm failing to see one. Beyond that, was his ban unfair based on the TOS that he agreed to when signing up for that platform? For example would you be censored if @limpid hit you with a hot ban for calling me a word removed? Or would you just be breaking the rules of the site and are being punished for doing so? What's the problem here? There is a morality angle. One does have to judge it in terms of what it means beyond Donald J Trump whether or not you, I or anyone else likes that. It's not just a website enforcing TOS, is it? Their enforcement is rather haphazard, at best, whch would suggest that this particular enforcement is specific. VT can't be compared to twitter. It isn't a universal forum, for all limpid et al. may wish. The point is not to support anything from Trump but rather to question the platforms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 36 minutes ago, snowychap said: There is a morality angle. One does have to judge it in terms of what it means beyond Donald J Trump whether or not you, I or anyone else likes that. It's not just a website enforcing TOS, is it? Their enforcement is rather haphazard, at best, whch would suggest that this particular enforcement is specific. VT can't be compared to twitter. It isn't a universal forum, for all limpid et al. may wish. The point is not to support anything from Trump but rather to question the platforms. What is the morality angle? I'm genuinely failing to see it. Whether their enforcement of their TOS is consistent is another issue. But it is very clear in black and white that incitement is against the TOS Also what difference does it make if it's a "universal forum"? That seems a very arbitrary distinction. It's still a private entity, even if it is publicly facing. It has nothing to do with free speech in the constitutional sense. Its punishments also are restricted to that private sphere. If he logs out of Twitter, he'll find be can still express his views on other platforms, or even hold a press conference that will be broadcasted to millions. What even is the argument here, allow everything to be posted with no repercussions? I don't see any tears shed for the quashing of ISIS operatives on Twitter. What of their free speech? Why are they being censored etc. The outrage here seems very selective. If I get banned from Twitter, shit, I just got banned from Twitter. I don't have a right to use that platform, and if they don't want me there then that's their prerogative. I'm not even paying for the privilege. Even if their reasoning is BS. Now there could be an argument for nationalizing these platforms and making them public entities, in which all these arguments about free speech and censorship would apply I guess. Right now it's just the free market, free market'ing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Keyblade said: What is the morality angle? I'm genuinely failing to see it. Whether their enforcement of their TOS is consistent is another issue. But it is very clear in black and white that incitement is against the TOS Also what difference does it make if it's a "universal forum"? That seems a very arbitrary distinction. It's still a private entity, even if it is publicly facing. It has nothing to do with free speech in the constitutional sense. Its punishments also are restricted to that private sphere. If he logs out of Twitter, he'll find be can still express his views on other platforms, or even hold a press conference that will be broadcasted to millions. What even is the argument here, allow everything to be posted with no repercussions? I don't see any tears shed for the quashing of ISIS operatives on Twitter. What of their free speech? Why are they being censored etc. The outrage here seems very selective. If I get banned from Twitter, shit, I just got banned from Twitter. I don't have a right to use that platform, and if they don't want me there then that's their prerogative. I'm not even paying for the privilege. Even if their reasoning is BS. Now there could be an argument for nationalizing these platforms and making them public entities, in which all these arguments about free speech and censorship would apply I guess. Right now it's just the free market, free market'ing. Wow. Just wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Also what difference does it make if it's a "universal forum"? A huge difference. VT isn't twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Just now, snowychap said: A huge difference. VT isn't twitter. What's the difference apart from 1 having a much larger userbase? Or more pointedly, what's the difference that applies here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: What's the difference apart from 1 having a much larger userbase? Or more pointedly, what's the difference that applies here? Whilst VT is viewable by the public, it isn't a forum that carries weight in the forum/marketplace of public discussion. Other messageboards may carry some weight but they probably carry less than twitter. The 'much larger userbase' thing is obviously pertinent. VT isn't twitter. Edited January 13, 2021 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, snowychap said: A huge difference. VT isn't twitter. It kinda is though, it’s social media. Its just a narrower band of people with a specific shared interest. Which is essentially what all social media becomes anyway as they’re just echo chambers for what interests you at that moment in time, mapped out by data intelligence and algorithms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said: It kinda is though, it’s social media. D'uh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Just now, snowychap said: Whilst VT is viewable by the public, it isn't a forum that carries weight in the forum/marketplace of public discussion. Other messageboards may carry more weight but they probably carry less than twitter. The 'much larger userbase' thing is obviously pertinent. VT isn't twitter. Again, that is very arbitrary. We can't decide if a site is a marketplace of public discussion because an arbitrary large number of people now use it. It's still a private, for-profit entity that only hosts users and their discussions, subject to their own discretionary moderation of course, as a money-making exercise and not to facilitate a public square even if something resembling that ends up being a byproduct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, snowychap said: D'uh. So what’s your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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