villa4europe Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, villakram said: Also, it's a little weird to think Trump is stupid. He did win a free and fair democratic election to be president, against essentially everyone from what we would classical call the center or in modern parlance the establishment. It might make *you* feel better to think this way however. it also makes me feel better to question the intelligence of those that voted for him i think there is a consensus that his election lives up to some sweeping generalisations about americans the "genius" of trump is if the way he uses pronouns (yes i think this is on purpose) and emotive language (nope i think its because he lacks a wider vocabulary) is specifically targeting his audience 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, mjmooney said: So, popularity = intelligence? Riiiight.... I think the point was more that he navigated his way successfully through a long and arcane process, generally regarded as stacked towards insiders, despite being viewed with undisguised scorn and contempt by many in the Republican establishment, to win a fiercely contested position against the odds; and that although wealth clearly helps, managing this outcome as a rank outsider doesn't fit very well with being stupid. I wouldn't call him intelligent, but "cunning" seems to fit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, peterms said: I think the point was more that he navigated his way successfully through a long and arcane process, generally regarded as stacked towards insiders, despite being viewed with undisguised scorn and contempt by many in the Republican establishment, to win a fiercely contested position against the odds; and that although wealth clearly helps, managing this outcome as a rank outsider doesn't fit very well with being stupid. I wouldn't call him intelligent, but "cunning" seems to fit. First bit's right 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, bickster said: When was this? Gave up reading after that You and your conspiracy theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I think a lot of people over the last 20 years have mistaken a lack of morality as a sign of stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 12, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, peterms said: I think the point was more that he navigated his way successfully through a long and arcane process, generally regarded as stacked towards insiders, despite being viewed with undisguised scorn and contempt by many in the Republican establishment, to win a fiercely contested position against the odds; and that although wealth clearly helps, managing this outcome as a rank outsider doesn't fit very well with being stupid. I wouldn't call him intelligent, but "cunning" seems to fit. I think the people behind him are both intelligent and cunning. Not to mention nasty. Trump himself? Idiot. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, mjmooney said: I think the people behind him are both intelligent and cunning. Not to mention nasty. Trump himself? Idiot. Agree with the first bit. As for Trump, many times I find myself thinking he's an idiot. On reflection, I wonder if that's the result of expecting something approaching normal behaviour. If you see him more as a self-obsessed chancer, a psychopathic and narcissistic conman with a well- developed crminal streak whose only concern is himself and whatever goes on inside his head, then normal behavious should not be expected. To me, cunning but about average intelligence probably fits the bill. Though I'd love to see the psychiatrist's report, when it comes to be written. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 It's hard to sum him up in one word. The best I can think of is him being the most preposterous human being I've ever known of. It's utterly baffling to me that people can have voted for him, and the more preposterous he gets the more popular he is with a large number of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VILLAMARV Posted September 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 12, 2018 “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” - George Carlin 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 23 minutes ago, peterms said: Though I'd love to see the psychiatrist's report, when it comes to be written. not if its written by the same doctor who said he is in "excellent health" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted September 12, 2018 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 hours ago, villakram said: You and your conspiracy theories. You don't live in anything resembling a true democracy your boundaries are gerrymandered, certain states receive a disproportionate number of elected representatives, people of a certain ethnicity are as good as prevented from voting in some areas and the winner of the popular vote doesn’t get to be president. None of these are conspiracy theories before I even start on hanging chads and the like or what Jeb Bush did for his brother in Florida. Before Russian interference was ever thought of you didn’t live in a country that had free and fair elections. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted September 13, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted September 13, 2018 8 hours ago, mjmooney said: I think the people behind him are both intelligent and cunning. Not to mention nasty. Trump himself? Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 8 hours ago, peterms said: Agree with the first bit. As for Trump, many times I find myself thinking he's an idiot. On reflection, I wonder if that's the result of expecting something approaching normal behaviour. If you see him more as a self-obsessed chancer, a psychopathic and narcissistic conman with a well- developed crminal streak whose only concern is himself and whatever goes on inside his head, then normal behavious should not be expected. To me, cunning but about average intelligence probably fits the bill. Though I'd love to see the psychiatrist's report, when it comes to be written. I would too. I'm confident he's psychopathic, as I have said before. I had the thought cross my mind before reading that a number of psychiatrists think so too. They can be uncanny in hiding their differences and have an acute sense of how others are feeling, while still lacking empathy, they are able to feign and mimic the sentiments of the people that surround them. Trump isn't able to do that and if he is a psychopath from my understanding and experience that simply means he's not one of the brighter ones who usually assimilate well. Not that any of that means much. I don't want to suggest he is any less a human because I think he might have some pathological traits. The way I see it is we are all fallible at some time in our life, at one thing or another. At the end of the day I don't hold Trump personally responsible for my disappointment regarding the state of affairs our 'leadership' positions are in. To me he is just another example and product of a system with its head so far up its own ass it's suffering unconsciousness from the asphyxiation. Benevolence and earning the position on the merits of quality of life afforded the people are not on the agenda. Not even in consideration for many. One-upmanship, class warfare, WOMD, racial propaganda, legitimisation of corruption are all apparently necessities of governance and 'survival of the fittest'. I really hope Nikola Tesla was right when he predicted this century to glorify the fight against ignorance over dying on the battlefield and that a countries income not be predominantly spent on military affairs, but rather education. The front pages dedicated to humanities and scientific progress and the crimes and corruption relegated to the back pages and yesteryear. Back to Trump's intellect. Let's entertain the notion that he is in fact unable to grasp knowledge and skills in the same way that others do and is in fact, 'stupid'. What does that say about the people who have appointed him? It is a 'democracy' at the end of the day. He is meant to be a representation of their ideologies. I can safely say there are times when I can appreciate why Aristotle took issue with democracy and it's ins and outs. The sooner things like voting for a politician to represent the population are considered a skill and taken seriously rather than something that can be done mindlessly, the sooner we appreciate the importance of leadership and its trickle down effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 13, 2018 Moderator Share Posted September 13, 2018 I find this whole idea that psychologists say he’s this and that hilarious. A friend of mine is a psychologist and we were talking about Trump earlier in the summer. He was telling me how none of the people claiming this should be allowed to practice, as to make diagnosis outside of a clinical setting is both unethical and innacurate. FWIW he also said he’d seen no actual evidence of any psychological disorder in anything Trump had done because judging a psychological disorder or dysfunction through the media is impossible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, bickster said: I find this whole idea that psychologists say he’s this and that hilarious. A friend of mine is a psychologist and we were talking about Trump earlier in the summer. He was telling me how none of the people claiming this should be allowed to practice, as to make diagnosis outside of a clinical setting is both unethical and innacurate. FWIW he also said he’d seen no actual evidence of any psychological disorder in anything Trump had done because judging a psychological disorder or dysfunction through the media is impossible. It was psychiatrists that had made the claims that I speak of. Psychologists aren't actually qualified to make a diagnosis, even in a clinical setting. They are there to treat only. Diagnosis are made all the time based on the judgement of a qualified individual who observes and identifies behavioural traits that are symptomatic of the respective diagnosis. Nothing more. Brain scans are rarely if ever employed to ascertain if indeed an individual has an illness. So a clinical setting is usually just a space whereby observation can be made, there's nothing particularly different between assessing someone at a clinic or elsewhere. I work at a mental health facility among psychiatrists and psychologists so I can say that with some confidence. I can understand your friends POV and personally if I was to be seeing that kind of specialist I wouldn't want them airing their judgements publicly, regardless of accuracy. Trump absolutely displays multiple traits akin to a psychopath without fail time and again, whether he actually is one or not is unlikely, as from memory they make up just over 1% of the population. So on that note your friend is probably right in calling out those making claims (obviously including myself) as you can't probe someone for clarity and understanding without having a discussion with them. But I would point out that your friend is not qualified to make a diagnosis, and that Trump is on the idiot box near daily airing his character in some way. I would say his former teacher is no more qualified to judge him as stupid or idiotic than multiple qualified psychiatrists to judge him to have psychopathy from a distance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 13, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 minute ago, A'Villan said: Psychologists aren't actually qualified to make a diagnosis, even in a clinical setting. They are there to treat only. I work at a mental health facility among psychiatrists and psychologists so I can say that with some confidence. Can't speak for Australia, but in the UK, it's the exact opposite of what you say - psychologists diagnose, psychiatrists treat. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Can't speak for Australia, but in the UK, it's the exact opposite of what you say - psychologists diagnose, psychiatrists treat. Interesting. I did a quick google and I should only be speaking for the clinic at which I work, where psychiatrists do the diagnosis and psychologists are employed for therapy. An accredited psychologist may diagnose and treat through counselling but cannot prescribe medication here in Australia. Whereas a psychiatrist may diagnose and treat with medication but will not counsel. Edit: So probably a good reminder I'm no professional on the subject! Edited September 13, 2018 by A'Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 13, 2018 Moderator Share Posted September 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Can't speak for Australia, but in the UK, it's the exact opposite of what you say - psychologists diagnose, psychiatrists treat. Water goes down the plug hole the wrong way in Australia too 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 13, 2018 Moderator Share Posted September 13, 2018 Trump now claiming the death toll in Puerto Rico of 3000 is made up by the Democrats Base, how low can you go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) Only 16 certified dead apparently... Official figure state 2975. Edited September 13, 2018 by sne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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