OutByEaster? Posted May 13, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: I know what you are inferring, but just the people who run the nuts and bolts of government have not been appointed or nominated. Dozens of ambassadors are yet to be appointed FFS.. But all the offices for miles around the White House where all the people who make decisions and pay the money for those decision to be carried out are full as a fat girls sock. Trump is the culmination of the removal of Democracy as an obstacle to corporate power - an organised Trump administration would by definition be a failure - American is being Governed by Ron Swanson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 13, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 13, 2017 39 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Trump is the culmination of the removal of Democracy as an obstacle to corporate power I agree, but I think the opposite is partly true, as well - Trump was democratically elected. Trump is what happens in the timeline of democracy when what you say has occurred, but it's not the end result - things will move on. i.e. it's a temporary state and it will change again. I mean you could have said the same if Bernie Sanders had been elected. The Democrats picked a rubbish candidate and the Republicans were all mad as a box of frogs, which allowed Trump to win....yet, more people voted for Clinton and had Saunders (always a good name) been the candidate, who knows what would have happened. If the Democrats next time put up Elizabeth Warren or similar, then it might swing round again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 31 minutes ago, blandy said: I agree, but I think the opposite is partly true, as well - Trump was democratically elected. Turkey voted democratically in their referendum too; yet the result is deeply undemocratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 13, 2017 Author Share Posted May 13, 2017 12 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: aren't these sentiments kind of mutually incompatible? Not at all. I believe the FBI has the goods on him, and his supporters have either gone silent, or they're beginning to grasp at straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 13, 2017 Author Share Posted May 13, 2017 12 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: he's not going to be impeached any time soon. You may be right, but you may be wrong too, depending on what is revealed over the next several weeks. He might decide to resign, he could be removed for being mentally unsound, therefore skipping an impeachment process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 1 hour ago, maqroll said: He might decide to resign, he could be removed for being mentally unsound, therefore skipping an impeachment process. Obviously we can't predict the future, but those sound like billion-to-one shots to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 22 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: American is being Governed by Ron Swanson. Don't be bringing Ron's name into this debacle. America truly would be great again if he was in charge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 14, 2017 Author Share Posted May 14, 2017 On 5/13/2017 at 21:18, HanoiVillan said: Obviously we can't predict the future, but those sound like billion-to-one shots to me. Nah. Nixon resigned for a criminal coverup, and people on his staff went to prison. If Trump's actions prove treasonous, he's in deep trouble. At the very least, obstruction of justice charges, at worst, treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 Just now, maqroll said: Nah. Nixon resigned for a criminal coverup, and people on his staff went to prison. If Trump's actions prove treasonous, he's in deep trouble. At the very least, obstruction of justice charges, at worst, treason. Talk about a big 'if'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 6 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Talk about a big 'if'. Even without a treason charge, obstruction of justice has clearly been committed, let's see if the GOP has the ethical gumption to impeach. But I do think he'll resign sometime this summer, regardless. If his actions vis a vis Russia are deemed criminal, then he'll possibly end up in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 25 minutes ago, maqroll said: Even without a treason charge, obstruction of justice has clearly been committed, let's see if the GOP has the ethical gumption to impeach. But I do think he'll resign sometime this summer, regardless. If his actions vis a vis Russia are deemed criminal, then he'll possibly end up in prison. Okay, well I think we've crystallised our sources of disagreement, in that I think I disagree with all four points there: firstly, I don't think obstruction of justice has been committed - indeed, we currently have little to no evidence of any actual wrongdoing, just a lot of smoke (which doesn't mean there was no wrongdoing of course, it could still turn up); secondly, no Republican is going to argue for impeachment, or even accept it if it happens, until there is rock-solid, impossible-to-deny evidence of malfeasance, as there was in Watergate; thirdly, there seems to me little chance Trump would resign - doing so would involve an admission of failure and a sense of shame, neither of which he seems likely to admit to - and it will take much longer than a few months if it does (Watergate took more than two years from the beginning of the investigation to the resignation), and fourthly, I very much doubt he will ever see the inside of a prison cell (again, if Nixon is the comparison, he was eventually pardoned of all wrongdoing). Of course I would love if you were right. But once again, I think you're letting the wish be father to the thought. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) A compelling case for the prosecution of criminality in the Trump administration- http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/05/did_president_trump_obstruct_justice_in_firing_james_comey.html Quote Since the news broke on Tuesday that Donald Trump had fired FBI Director James Comey, Harvard Law School’s Laurence Tribe has been arguing that the president’s conduct, in and of itself, is illegal and amounts to impeachable “high crimes and misdemeanors.” Edited May 15, 2017 by maqroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted May 15, 2017 As if Trumps going to end up in jail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Some people really don't like Obama (NWS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) Hatred for Obama, based on him being a black democrat, is one of the reasons we have Trump now. It's the only thing that explains the total cognitive dissonance displayed by the bible belt of the States; loving Trump who is a serial womaniser with 5 kids from 3 wives, while vilifying the model family man Obama. Edited May 15, 2017 by StefanAVFC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted May 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: Hatred for Obama, based on him being a black democrat, is one of the reasons we have Trump now. It's the only thing that explains the total cognitive dissonance displayed by the bible belt of the States; loving Trump who is a serial womaniser with 5 kids from 3 wives, while vilifying the model family man Obama. But you forget about the child sex ring he runs with Hilary in the basement of a pizza shop in D.C. which doesn't have a basement. Edited May 15, 2017 by TheAuthority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 9 hours ago, maqroll said: A compelling case for the prosecution of criminality in the Trump administration- http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/05/did_president_trump_obstruct_justice_in_firing_james_comey.html From slate... There are biases all around, not just on the republican side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 2 hours ago, villakram said: From slate... There are biases all around, not just on the republican side. Right, but this wasn't just an article by a lefty Slate journo, it's an interview with a Harvard constitutional law professor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, maqroll said: Right, but this wasn't just an article by a lefty Slate journo, it's an interview with a Harvard constitutional law professor. If/buts/maybe... No laws were broken. The president is entirely within his rights to change the position of director of the FBI. Comey had to go. That he had to be fired speaks quite a lot as to his true interest in the "hallowed" institution that is the FBI. Russia this, Russia that, oh my gosh them thar reds be under the bed! The democrats and others who claim some interest in the problems facing society would do well to think about those things and how they might be changed rather than this political grandstanding. Of course, the actual Democratic leadership has revealed itself to be interested in nothing more than hanging onto whatever power they currently have... a truly shameful bunch. Edited May 15, 2017 by villakram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 29 minutes ago, villakram said: No laws were broken. ITK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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