U.S. Politics

[HanoiVillan]

On 27/04/2022 at 12:04, HanoiVillan said:

Interestingly, back in 2012 he only donated to Dem politicians and Mitt Romney accused Tesla of being a 'loser' company that couldn't exist without public subsidy. By 2016, he maxxed out donations to both Republican and Democrat campaign committees (this is what most normal rich people do) and then by 2020 he was only donating to Republicans.

Lo and behold, he decided to tweet this out in graphic form to illustrate my point:

 

 

[OutByEaster?]

The idea that the centre has drifted to the left over the past 15 years is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

 

[blandy]

11 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The idea that the centre has drifted to the left over the past 15 years is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

In America, like with the uk, it seems like the extremes of left and right have moved out further. Not sure the centre has moved much myself either in the US or UK in the past 15 year period, but it’s just perceptions really.

[LondonLax]

This tweet in reply was informative, quoting actual data rather than "feels".

 

 

 

[OutByEaster?]

4 minutes ago, blandy said:

In America, like with the uk, it seems like the extremes of left and right have moved out further. Not sure the centre has moved much myself either in the US or UK in the past 15 year period, but it’s just perceptions really.

Over the last forty years, the centre has moved massively to the right - Obama is considering a centrist or even toward the left in the states, he'd be a right wing politician by just about any natural standard anywhere else in the world. America doesn't really have a political left - Bernie Sanders is the nearest they've got and he'd be a centre right politician in most of Europe. 

By modern US standards, Nixon was practically a socialist.

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Over the last forty years, the centre has moved massively to the right - Obama is considering a centrist or even toward the left in the states, he'd be a right wing politician by just about any natural standard anywhere else in the world. America doesn't really have a political left - Bernie Sanders is the nearest they've got and he'd be a centre right politician in most of Europe. 

By modern US standards, Nixon was practically a socialist.

 

 

I wouldn't go that far.

Obama was/is right of Cameron and Sanders is right of Corbyn, but it doesn't make him centre right.

[blandy]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

Over the last forty years, the centre has moved massively to the right - Obama is considering a centrist or even toward the left in the states, he'd be a right wing politician by just about any natural standard anywhere else in the world. America doesn't really have a political left - Bernie Sanders is the nearest they've got and he'd be a centre right politician in most of Europe. 

By modern US standards, Nixon was practically a socialist.

Things that have happened in the US in recent times, and are accepted as normal. Obamacare, huge state spending to bail out struggling industries after the crash, ethical and fair trade type consumer spending, changes to attitudes to /acceptance of LBGT people, more advances in equality for women…there’s absolutely loads of stuff where things have moved leftwards (socially mainly), and equally there’s plenty that have moved rightwards (economically mainly). To me the centre seems to be roughly where it was in 2007, 1997, 1987.  Nixon was 50 years ago, not 15. Reagan in the 80s was their version of the evil witch and that’s when things shifted right. Since then social change has been to the left, IMO and economic change has been possibly further right.

[MakemineVanilla]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

Since then social change has been to the left, IMO and economic change has been possibly further right.

That is certainly my own perception.

Cynics claim that the difference between the parties is illusory, as administrations considered right-wing don't create smaller governments, and the administrations considered left-wing don't seem any less keen on war.

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

13 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Lo and behold, he decided to tweet this out in graphic form to illustrate my point:

 

 

I detest this word removed honestly. Billionaires are just the absolute worst.

[Straggler]

9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I detest this word removed honestly. Billionaires are just the absolute worst.

It is a handy graph to show just how out of touch with reality he really is. On my screen he is about an inch and a half or one penis out of touch.

Which statistically proves that Elon is a penis. This is science.

 

 

[sidcow]

28 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Which statistically proves that Elon is a penis. This is science. 

Well he does spend a lot of his time trying to bore into holes. 

[maqroll]

9 hours ago, blandy said:

Things that have happened in the US in recent times, and are accepted as normal. Obamacare, huge state spending to bail out struggling industries after the crash, ethical and fair trade type consumer spending, changes to attitudes to /acceptance of LBGT people, more advances in equality for women…there’s absolutely loads of stuff where things have moved leftwards (socially mainly), and equally there’s plenty that have moved rightwards (economically mainly). To me the centre seems to be roughly where it was in 2007, 1997, 1987.  Nixon was 50 years ago, not 15. Reagan in the 80s was their version of the evil witch and that’s when things shifted right. Since then social change has been to the left, IMO and economic change has been possibly further right.

And it's the social stuff that the Right and it's media use to create hysteria in their base. CRT is a phantom issue. LGBTQ rights should be uncontroversial in 2022, but here we are. The proposals from "radical left" politicians like Sanders and AOC would lift millions of frothing Fox News fanatics out of poverty. As ever, the Left in America is just trying to fix a mess of the Right's creation.

[OutByEaster?]

10 hours ago, blandy said:

 Since then social change has been to the left, IMO and economic change has been possibly further right.

Which is a fair comment. I guess for me it then comes down to what you hope for from Government and what its purpose is.

For me that's 95% providing balances of economy on behalf of society. Protecting people from the extremes of the financial industry and corporate oligarchs, getting value for money from tax on hospitals, roads, education, all that important stuff - that's the big fight, the purpose of government in a modern democracy - to represent people against undemocratic forces.

The social stuff for me is more a matter for people to decide and government to follow with legal ratification when necessary - I don't see it as a priority for Boris to be an advocate for the rights of minorities, that's a matter for society with government to act when the law doesn't reflect that society - people should lead and I think to an extent do.

Society i think has drifted left, because people are more exposed to new ideas and new thinking, we're more tolerant, more understanding and better educated socially.

Politics on the other hand I think has veered off to the right, which is perhaps because I see politics through that prism of economy - the left doesn't even really exist in politics anymore - we have the right, where politicians support the needs of the financial superstate and try to enrich themselves and their cronies while doing it (usually at the expense of a 'them') and centrism, where politicians support the needs of the financial superstate and try to gather as many crumbs for the people that voted for them as they can, a sort of conscientious subservience a la Blair/Obama.

I think the 'proper' right in politics in the US and the UK has moved so far that it barely pretends to be politics at times, it's gangsterism born of the knowledge that they can't really change things any more so they may as well try to get rich quick off the back of voter ignorance - and the centre is just centrism, which should probably be more correctly described as corporatism.

Left of that there's nothing and anything that pops up gets attacked and sent packing like whack-a-mole.

Socially, yes, there's been movement to the left - where the corporate state allow - but economically and politically, I don't think the left has moved so much as been eliminated and what we now describe as centrism is a form of corporatism that's trying really hard to have a heart.

Which is a lot of words seeing as we sort of agree that the world is going socially left a bit and economically right a bit (albeit from the already extreme starting point of Reagan/Thatcher).

 

[TheAuthority]

10 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Which is a fair comment. I guess for me it then comes down to what you hope for from Government and what its purpose is.

For me that's 95% providing balances of economy on behalf of society. Protecting people from the extremes of the financial industry and corporate oligarchs, getting value for money from tax on hospitals, roads, education, all that important stuff - that's the big fight, the purpose of government in a modern democracy - to represent people against undemocratic forces.

The social stuff for me is more a matter for people to decide and government to follow with legal ratification when necessary - I don't see it as a priority for Boris to be an advocate for the rights of minorities, that's a matter for society with government to act when the law doesn't reflect that society - people should lead and I think to an extent do.

Society i think has drifted left, because people are more exposed to new ideas and new thinking, we're more tolerant, more understanding and better educated socially.

Politics on the other hand I think has veered off to the right, which is perhaps because I see politics through that prism of economy - the left doesn't even really exist in politics anymore - we have the right, where politicians support the needs of the financial superstate and try to enrich themselves and their cronies while doing it (usually at the expense of a 'them') and centrism, where politicians support the needs of the financial superstate and try to gather as many crumbs for the people that voted for them as they can, a sort of conscientious subservience a la Blair/Obama.

I think the 'proper' right in politics in the US and the UK has moved so far that it barely pretends to be politics at times, it's gangsterism born of the knowledge that they can't really change things any more so they may as well try to get rich quick off the back of voter ignorance - and the centre is just centrism, which should probably be more correctly described as corporatism.

Left of that there's nothing and anything that pops up gets attacked and sent packing like whack-a-mole.

Socially, yes, there's been movement to the left - where the corporate state allow - but economically and politically, I don't think the left has moved so much as been eliminated and what we now describe as centrism is a form of corporatism that's trying really hard to have a heart.

Which is a lot of words seeing as we sort of agree that the world is going socially left a bit and economically right a bit (albeit from the already extreme starting point of Reagan/Thatcher).

 

Great post. 

It's almost as if every one at the end were greedy pigs dressed as humans.

[maqroll]

Minority rule at breakneck speed.

 

[TheAuthority]

1 hour ago, maqroll said:

Minority rule at breakneck speed.

 

The fact that Donald Trump appointed 3 of those 9 is an absolute farce. A man so consumed by his own self interest and with so little interest in understanding what appointing a SCJ meant, he did whatever McConnell told him to do. I really believe Trump thought they'd make him President for life if he appointed their (the Federalist's) judges.

If it wasn't so tragic it would be hilarious.

Edited May 3, 2022 by TheAuthority

[sne]

Another step closer to Gilead.

[TheAuthority]

10 minutes ago, sne said:

Another step closer to Gilead.

Blessed be the fruit

[maqroll]

They'll ban same sex marriage next, and then just criminalize LGBTQ entirely. This is the trajectory. 

These far right rulings might just be the impetus for blue states to eventually secede, and that's not hyperbole. 

The fascism coming out of Florida and Texas is a harbinger. And as long as they keep trying to steal elections, there will be nothing we can do about it but secede.

 

[maqroll]