U.S. Politics

[TheStagMan]

6 minutes ago, peterms said:

Well it seems the firms whose share price jumped after the result were private prisons, and weapons manufacturers.  I suppose that tells us about the "something meaningful" the markets think will be happening.

Maybe, but the problems were there and buried / ignored by the previous administrations (including Obama). At least now they will be highlighted and perhaps once (if) the righteous indignation dies down then the conversations can start to be had. Trump will not be allowed/able to do half the stuff he has "promised" 

I would rather be optimistic and look for solutions than moan about what a terrible country it is, and how humanity has died. I do really feel for the people who are being racially abused at the moment, and the people doing it - on BOTH sides should be locked up. 

But more of the same was clearly not working. Make no mistake, these divides have been there for a long long time.

Edited November 11, 2016 by TheStagMan

[Awol]

2 hours ago, BOF said:

Snowy I'm not on about left, right or centre and I think it's counter-productive to the entire conversation to try and make it about that.  I'm on about anyone who doesn't identify with what has currently won the election in America or voted against the referendum in the UK.  Even after both have happened, it's still **** staggeringly arrogant and self-righteous to hear people refusing to acknowledge that there's a discussion to be had and that it's still somehow acceptable to call all Trump supporters racists and all or most Brexiters at best xenophobic.  The media have been telling the haves of the world that everything's OK in your own backyard.  So it's of little surprise now that people are absolutely amazed that this has happened, as they had little to no warning from said media.  But now that it HAS happened, they'd do well to get their heads out of the sand and stop pretending the 'other people' don't exist.  Because that's the impression I'm still getting in the aftermath of this election.  It's blood-boiling to read the reactions lashing out at others instead of taking a look in the mirror.

But I get it.  An awful lot of people have so much pride that they would rather do damage to another person than entertain the notion that they might have to adjust their staunch, ignorant and inaccurate views on something like the breakdown of opinion within their own country.

The core factors that led to Brexit & Trump are (imo) economic insecurity & inequality, identity (national, regional, ethnic, religious), alienation from political institutions and perceived external threats (cultural, demographic or military). These same issues are present in different combinations across Europe. 

The coming national elections and referenda within the EU block may yield results that kick the whole project into touch - at least in its current form.

Being first to break from the herd is tough but the taboo has now been broken. More importantly the political will to fix the EU (which at the root means fixing the euro and the system behind it) just isn't there with the ideological chasm running down the Rhine seemingly insurmountable.

The years of ignoring or glossing over these systemic problems may be coming quickly to an end.

[snowychap]

2 minutes ago, Awol said:

The years of ignoring or glossing over these systemic problems may be coming quickly to an end.

Brexit and Trump* may not be ignoring these problems but they very much look like they're glossing over them (just in a different way).

 

*Someone's got to call a bar/pub that soon, surely?

[mjmooney]

11 minutes ago, Awol said:

The core factors that led to Brexit & Trump are (imo) economic insecurity & inequality, identity (national, regional, ethnic, religious), alienation from political institutions and perceived external threats (cultural, demographic or military). These same issues are present in different combinations across Europe. 

You've just described Europe in the 1930s in a nutshell. 

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, peterms said:

Well it seems the firms whose share price jumped after the result were private prisons, and weapons manufacturers.  I suppose that tells us about the "something meaningful" the markets think will be happening.

Buy shares in private prisons and weapons manufacturers ?

 

but on the Dow , Banks seem to have risen the most , as well as pharmaceuticals and industrial firms  .. technology companies appear to have fallen ,presumably sales of private email servers are down as a result of this election  

 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by tonyh29

[Awol]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

Brexit and Trump* may not be ignoring these problems but they very much look like they're glossing over them (just in a different way).

 

*Someone's got to call a bar/pub that soon, surely?

They are certainly not a solution in and of themselves, but may indicate such problems are forcing themselves onto the mainstream political agenda.

FWIW I think the people advising May have heard it loud and clear, hence dropping Osborne's fiscal targets, discussion of a new industrial strategy etc.  Whether they actually get it right is another question entirely & far too early to judge, yet. 

 

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

Brexit and Trump*

*Someone's got to call a bar/pub that soon, surely?

A pub that will surely be beardy hipster free .... sign me up

[peterms]

18 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

but on the Dow , Banks seem to have risen the most , as well as pharmaceuticals and industrial firms  .. technology companies appear to have fallen ,presumably sales of private email servers are down as a result of this election  

 

Yes, banks, following suggestions Trump will get rid of Dodds-Frank.  Astonishing.  And big pharma because talk of tackling price gouging has been dropped.  Tech firms in anticipation of being required to bring back Iphone assembly from China and do it in Rustbucket Ohio instead, I gather.

[Jarpie]

3 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Racism, misogyny etc are not buzzwords and relegating them to such speaks volumes about this movement and people who sympathize with it. For people who are supposedly tired of political correctness and being silenced, they certainly love to do so whenever they are called out on their rhetoric or somebody says or does something they don't agree with. God forbid for example a football player decides to kneel during the national anthem in protest...sack him! Get out of the country! Gee, I wonder what happened to MUH FREEZE PEACH.

What does one have to do to be called out on bigotry short of dressing up in a white hood and cross and lynching people? Whatever it is, Donald Trump has ticked almost every box and a very good chunk of his supporters do as well. The whole 'we're struggling' line doesn't wash and is quite frankly a weak excuse from people who routinely demonize African Americans who are doing just as bad if not worse. Are they yelling from ivory towers too? When they complain and protest about racism in the form of BLM and others it's met with vehement opposition from the right. Maybe if they were compassionate and were active in the fight against oppression of all kinds instead of the chief opponents of it, people could be sympathetic to them. As it is, it sounds like a bunch of weak excuses to justify a horrible choice.

I agree that it's his right to protest that way if he wants to, and so have said many conservatives, such as James Woods. I saw a lot of white highly educated people in the media and social media warriors (who many were young white students or well-to-do people, such as people in the film- and other media industries) demonizing Trump and his supporters, and not to forget Clinton calling Trump's supporters "Basket of Deplorables". For example The West Wing actors, such as Bradley Whitford calling Trump an utter moron. Who do you think who had the winning strategy? It also worked so well for the Remain-campaign too, don't you think? It'll surely work perfectly when there's next elections in Germany, France and Netherlands!

Those people were the ones I meant. Are there problems in the USA? Sure, but when ordinary common people, many of who are blue-collar people, sees white highly educated people, many from the different medias calling them racist, misogynists etc. they'll see people in ivory towers throwing temper tantrums who are divorced from the reality.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Jarpie

[Brumerican]

I hope Trump keeps to his guns and kicks out all the illegal immigrants .

Which is pretty much everyone bar these guys .

[Tegis]

Love his consistency

 

 

 

[Davkaus]

9 hours. He's probably back to the first view by now.

[Rugeley Villa]

11 minutes ago, Brumerican said:

I hope Trump keeps to his guns and kicks out all the illegal immigrants .

Which is pretty much everyone bar these guys .

America is a bastard country.

[BOF]

Every country is a bastard country.  The sooner we realise that the better.

[Brumerican]

Yeah we should all sod off back to the African Savannah where we came from. 

[Davkaus]

1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said:

America is a bastard country.

They take after their roots in that sense, hard to find a bigger bunch of immigrants over time than Britain.

[Jarpie]

Want to know why people hates the media? It's one thing to attack Trump or his supporters but this is a new low:

[Rugeley Villa]

9 minutes ago, Jarpie said:

Want to know why people hates the media? It's one thing to attack Trump or his supporters but this is a new low:

Typical hard left trick. 

[Rugeley Villa]

16 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

They take after their roots in that sense, hard to find a bigger bunch of immigrants over time than Britain.

Those were the days when Britannia really did rule the waves 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Rugeley Villa

[Davkaus]

"Typical hard left trick"? Personal attacks are unique to people on the 'hard left' now? Whendid this come in?

Shameful headlines though, and I don't want to give the impression I think they shouldn't be condemned because "all sides do it", there's no excuse for that, but that's just a silly thing to say.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Davkaus