Liverpool

[VillaChris]

What I can never understand is why they never sign a really good young keeper to challenge him, there's plenty in the lower leagues.

Instead they have jokers like Brad Jones and Bogdan who make Mugnolet semi competant. 

[rodders0223]

I remember Mignolet being at fault for about 5 of our 6 goals at VP.

A few months later Liverpool binned Reina and signed the daft word removed.

[The_Rev]

Reina signed his own death warrant at Liverpool. It seemed that somewhere along the line he'd been convinced that he was the guy who was going to replace Victor Valdes at Barcelona (probably tapped up by Xavi and Iniesta when on international duty with Spain, they have form for that kind of thing...) but he had a period where he seemed completely disinterested at Liverpool and they got rid of him for chiefly that reason as far as I can tell.  The whole merry-go-round went to shit for all involved for a couple of years, Valdes "done deal" at Monaco went when he did his ligament, Barcelona signed Ter Stegen and Reina ended up warming the bench for a couple of seasons at Napoli and Bayern.  He seems to be doing very well this year back in Naples though. 

As for Mignolet, I just don't see it either.  He's a mid table keeper, great shot stopper but more prone to an error than he should be.  The top sides all have keepers who would walk into most other teams in the Premier League (I'm thinking Cech, Hart, De Gea, Lloris) but how many people would take Mignolet from Liverpool if they had chance?  Not many.  I did wonder if Liverpool would lead the inevitable mad scramble for Jack Butland this summer but them offering Mignolet such a long contract suggests otherwise. 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, rodders0223 said:

I remember Mignolet being at fault for about 5 of our 6 goals at VP.

A few months later Liverpool binned Reina and signed the daft word removed.

for a moment I was wondering when we put 6 past Liverpool

He is a decent shot stopper, good with ball at his feet(though he has gone downhill recent months) and woeful at crosses and organising a defence and somehow had most clean sheets in 2015

[Zatman]

Klopp just called him the perfect goalkeeper for Liverpool 

[BOF]

Thought this was interesting and fair enough extenuating circumstance for old Jürgen.

Liverpool transfer jumble has left Jürgen Klopp in charge of a footballing camel.

 

Liverpool transfer jumble has left Jürgen Klopp in charge of a footballing camel

A camel, so the saying goes, is a horse designed by committee. The combined input of a six-man transfer committee and five managers has left Klopp with one of the weirdest and most ill-fitting squads in recent Premier League history.

 

Much has been made of Jürgen Klopp’s touchline behaviour at Liverpool, those sudden cartwheeling appearances, grasping at the air, forming weird geometric shapes with his hands, a blur of teeth, glasses and quilted sportswear. At first this was interpreted as passion, then anger, then provocation. Another thought occurred watching Klopp at Anfield on Sunday. Perhaps he’s just really, really confused.

 

And with good reason, too. Liverpool’s squad is a deeply confusing collection of footballers. Watching their spirited impersonation of a coherent, hard-pressing Premier League team, it was the final 10 minutes of the defeat by Manchester United that really stood out. Chasing a point at the last, Klopp sent on Christian Benteke, the only centre-forward in his 18-man squad. Benteke touched the ball six times and visibly struggled to fit into a team that had just spent 80 minutes playing to an entirely different set of strengths.

With a minute to go Steven Caulker, a centre-half at centre-forward, came on for James Milner, a central midfielder playing as a right-sided attacker, to join Roberto Firmino, a No9 or No10, who spent the 90 minutes haring about, quite effectively, trying to be both.

Little wonder Klopp might be a bit confused. And not just by the conflicting qualities of the group of players he has inherited. But by the structures and governance of a club that has, in a brilliant coup, managed to hire one of the most desirable managers in Europe; and then, in the opposite of a brilliant coup, presented him with one of the weirdest, most ill-fitting squads in recent Premier League history.

This is no exaggeration. Liverpool have signed 50 players in the past five years, a team a season. The current group were signed under five different managers, to unconnected tactical plans, most recently by a mob-handed transfer committee with its own dimly conceived moneyball-style pretentions.

There is no shortage of informed opinion on Klopp’s efforts to make sense of this. One thing stands out, though. Liverpool’s transfer committee, in its current format, really does deserve to go. The reasons for this are obvious enough. First, it is now basically redundant. It was Brendan Rodgers’ insistence that he wouldn’t work with a director of football that led to the committee’s formation in the first place. Odd to think that but for Rodgers’ stubbornness Louis van Gaal might have been in the Liverpool directors’ box on Sunday, or even next to Klopp on the bench as one half of a mouthwatering Euro-brainbox power-couple.

Rodgers’ remarks about the workings of the club over the weekend must be read in the context of an unemployed manager tending his reputation. But they do shine a light on the self-generated muddle the club has handed his successor. “It’s difficult because you want a player in but if the player is not on the list, you’d have to take someone,” Rodgers said. “There’s no other option, you give it a go.”

Except that giving it a go works only if there is a hint of a tactically sympathetic relationship with the man putting these players on the pitch. Of the team Liverpool fielded on Sunday, Mamadou Sakho, Emre Can, Alberto Moreno and Firmino are said to have been “committee” signings. Adam Lallana, Milner, Benteke and Nathaniel Clyne were Rodgers’ choices. Lucas Leiva and Jordan Henderson were signed by Rafa Benítez and Kenny Dalglish. Jordon Ibe was an academy kid taken from Wycombe at the age of 16, a Rodgers favourite, now embraced – just about – by Klopp.

A camel, so the saying goes, is a horse designed by committee. And right now Liverpool are pretty much the definition of a footballing camel. A squad built with the combined input of a six-man committee and five different managers, with a mixture of team-building, bargain-hunting, quick fix and long-term planning in mind, was never likely to be anything else.

It might be argued the committee itself is not the problem. Klopp is comfortable with the process. At Borussia Dortmund the majority of players were signed by the club hierarchy. In the Premi

er League Tottenham have a pretty functional, slimmed-down version, judging by the past two years at least.

The issue at Liverpool is a transfer committee that has simply failed on its record. The dominant personality is said to be Mike Gordon, a well-respected US stockbroker who is, according to John Henry, “by far FSG America’s most knowledgeable person with regard to soccer”. Footballers, though, are not stocks. Buying young players with resale in mind does not amount to team-building. “They were thinking this is a £50m player we could maybe get for £16m,” Rodgers said of the signing of Mario Balotelli.

But there is a reason Balotelli was so cheap. Just as Rodgers, in pure football terms, was never going to be the manager to bring him to that level.

It was at least a tactic though. Two years on the signing of Benteke, for a non-refundable twice the price, seems entirely baffling: neither an investment nor a symptom of Rodgers’ playing “philosophy” in action, just evidence of a confusion of voices.

What is clear is that Klopp has a minor part in what this team of mismatched components look like right now. He may yet be able to wring some short-term order. But the ability to panic-build is hardly a basis on which to judge him. Just as it is probably best to put a hold on asking when we might see the first barks of power-chord football from the collection of mandolins, harpsichords and broken ukuleles thrust into his hands. The real measure will come a year or so on from the expected purge at the end of the season. On current evidence Firmino, Can, Philippe Coutinho, Lucas, Clyne, along with youngsters such as Ibe and Joe Gomez may form an early nucleus. The list of those likely to head elsewhere is as long as a piece of string, with Benteke and Lallana the most obviously lacking in Klopp-style edge.

For now a better place to start might be the slimming down or junking of that ill-starred committee, an accident of the Rodgers era that has turned out to be its most confusing legacy.

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More features

[Zatman]

He knew what he was getting into though, the same media never defended Rodgers when the same thing was labelled at him

the fact an experienced manager doesnt play a striker at home in a big game until the 83rd minute and then throws a defender up front is not the work of the committee

Edited January 19, 2016 by Zatman

[Stevo985]

41 minutes ago, The_Rev said:

 

As for Mignolet, I just don't see it either.  He's a mid table keeper, great shot stopper but more prone to an error than he should be.  The top sides all have keepers who would walk into most other teams in the Premier League (I'm thinking Cech, Hart, De Gea, Lloris) but how many people would take Mignolet from Liverpool if they had chance?  Not many.  I did wonder if Liverpool would lead the inevitable mad scramble for Jack Butland this summer but them offering Mignolet such a long contract suggests otherwise. 

Exactly. They're supposedly a huge club. Yet their goalkeepers are a complete joke.

I don't think there's many clubs in the league that would take Mignolet, let alone top clubs.

I honestly wouldn't swap Guzan for him. I don't think there's much difference between them.

[BOF]

Yep he knew what he was getting into, but that doesn't change the fact of what he was getting into.  That squad is messed up and will need time to balance out.  They need to cash in on Sturridge IMV and start from there.  He counts as a striker in the squad but for all intents and purposes all he's doing is tying up a wage.

[Bunnski]

I'm not sure if I feel sorry for Benteke or if I should be saying 'haha told you so'.  A lot of us on here, me included were of the opinion that he should stay with us this season to give him the best chance of being Belgiums No.1 striker at the Euros but instead he's stuck on the bench and when he plays for them he looks way out of form.  How different it could of been for him and us if he had of stayed this season.

[BOF]

I think I speak for plenty of VillaTalkers when I say "F**k him".

I am thoroughly enjoying him dying on his arse at Anfield, and I hope and suspect he will warm Belgium's bench for large periods of the Euros.  Far larger periods than he would have had he stayed put.  He might even have gotten a move to a Champions League side afterwards if he'd continued scoring goals for us and added to that by going on to do well in the summer.  But now he has made his task far harder.  His club form raises question marks that were not really there before, and his international opportunities will be that bit fewer for it.  Now go back and read the first sentence again

[Arj Guy]

13 minutes ago, Bunnski said:

I'm not sure if I feel sorry for Benteke or if I should be saying 'haha told you so'.  A lot of us on here, me included were of the opinion that he should stay with us this season to give him the best chance of being Belgiums No.1 striker at the Euros but instead he's stuck on the bench and when he plays for them he looks way out of form.  How different it could of been for him and us if he had of stayed this season.

Strange isn't it? Almost like he didn't want to take part in a relegation battle for the 4th season in a row

[Zatman]

17 minutes ago, BOF said:

I think I speak for plenty of VillaTalkers when I say "F**k him".

I am thoroughly enjoying him dying on his arse at Anfield, and I hope and suspect he will warm Belgium's bench for large periods of the Euros.  Far larger periods than he would have had he stayed put.  He might even have gotten a move to a Champions League side afterwards if he'd continued scoring goals for us and added to that by going on to do well in the summer.  But now he has made his task far harder.  His club form raises question marks that were not really there before, and his international opportunities will be that bit fewer for it.  Now go back and read the first sentence again

Why would he want to stay playing for us? We are a nothing club with no ambition and he was right to try his luck at Liverpool even if it was wrong move

we wouldnt be bottom only for him, we would already be in the Championship maybe even League 1

[BOF]

15 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Why would he want to stay playing for us? We are a nothing club with no ambition and he was right to try his luck at Liverpool even if it was wrong move

we wouldnt be bottom only for him, we would already be in the Championship maybe even League 1

I'm not even sure what issue you're taking with my post this time

[Bunnski]

I'm not sure if I feel sorry for Benteke or if I should be saying 'haha told you so'.  A lot of us on here, me included were of the opinion that he should stay with us this season to give him the best chance of being Belgiums No.1 striker at the Euros but instead he's stuck on the bench and when he plays for them he looks way out of form.  How different it could of been for him and us if he had of stayed this season. [emoji20]

Strange isn't it? Almost like he didn't want to take part in a relegation battle for the 4th season in a row

You think he's happy barely getting a match and being hated by their supporters? I'm sure he'd rather be here right now on 10 + goals with the fans singing his name every game and I'm also sure that a fully fit Benteke would have us in a much better position in the table. Hindsight and all eh

[rodders0223]

Benteke owes us **** all.

He scored 23 goals for us and we rewarded him by signing up Bacuna and Tonev.

 

He should have left when he handed in his first transfer request.

 

[BOF]

Again, people are misinterpreting me.  I never even hinted that he owes us a red cent.  I'm simply enjoying that he's bombing at Liverpool and that as was widely predicted at the time he might have been better off staying put for the Euros and may have even gotten a CL club offer off the back of a good competition   But he didn't so ... trollolol.

[Zatman]

but why should he stay put for the Euros when he is probably going to start when WIlmots is a big fan and has bailed us out of the shit too many times

[BOF]

I bet Lukaku plays more minutes than Benteke in the Euros.  Injuries notwithstanding.  That would not have been anything like the case if Benteke was a Villa player.  Hopefully my point is understood now

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, BOF said:

I bet Lukaku plays more minutes than Benteke in the Euros.  Injuries notwithstanding.  That would not have been anything like the case if Benteke was a Villa player.  Hopefully my point is understood now

not really. I dont understand the point of him staying here. it would be a huge lack of ambition on his part