Gabby Agbonlahor

[Dave J]

5 minutes ago, daggy_333 said:

I'm interested to hear what more you think he could have done in that first 30 minutes? I saw him attacking with pace and defending well to help out Taylor. He missed a one on one which he should have scored but other than that I can't fault his first 30 minutes.

 

 

I've never been to a game that only lasts 30 mins - I am talking about his performance across the 90 mins which levelled out at no more than bang average in my view- Gabby always starts pre- season at a slight advantage because of his natural pace - nothing else,  however this is neutralised after a couple of games once defenders get up to speed. I would not be fooled by a 30 min cameo personally - one swallow does not a summer make !

[daggy_333]

6 minutes ago, Dave J said:

I've never been to a game that only lasts 30 mins - I am talking about his performance across the 90 mins which levelled out at no more than bang average in my view- Gabby always starts pre- season at a slight advantage because of his natural pace - nothing else,  however this is neutralised after a couple of games once defenders get up to speed. I would not be fooled by a 30 min cameo personally - one swallow does not a summer make !

Did you not see the bit where i said he should be used as an impact sub for the last 20 minutes. I never said a game lasts 30 minutes. You clearly have a hatred for the man and that's fine, everyone is entitled to an opinion but i'd rather be more rounded and appreciate the positives as well as the negatives.

[Dave J]

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

See Dave, this is why nobody respects your posts anymore. 

Even in the face of an obviously decent performance, you're still critical. 

It takes any value of your posts away. 

 

I am as critical of Gabby as the next guy when he deserves it. And over the past few years he's deserved it a LOT. But I'm able to recognise when he does actually play well. And yesterday was one of those days. 

When someone will criticise a player no matter what he does, it just means everybody stops listening. Your posts have become a parody. 

And of course we all respect yours do we not? I think you'll find the answer is a no here as well.

And in fairness Stevo on this particular topic I respectfully don't care- I have followed villa for many many years and I know a striker when I see one - friends of mine who follow other clubs would not want him anywhere near their team - what does this tell you ?

i will not change my view for you or anyone else for that matter- that's not being brash or arrogant at all - if you knew me then you would know I am totally from the other end of the spectrum - I just don't rate him or want him anywhere near the starting 11 and I see very little value in him - Gerrard Houllier wasn't wrong you know Stevo 

[Dave J]

Just now, daggy_333 said:

Did you not see the bit where i said he should be used as an impact sub for the last 20 minutes. I never said a game lasts 30 minutes. You clearly have a hatred for the man and that's fine, everyone is entitled to an opinion but i'd rather be more rounded and appreciate the positives as well as the negatives.

Please there is no need to use the hate word - I honestly thought we'd done this bit and yes of course I saw your post - but games do last 90 mins not 30 so I cannot see how you can solely focus on 30 mins ??

[Dave J]

20 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

See Dave, this is why nobody respects your posts anymore. 

Even in the face of an obviously decent performance, you're still critical. 

It takes any value of your posts away. 

 

I am as critical of Gabby as the next guy when he deserves it. And over the past few years he's deserved it a LOT. But I'm able to recognise when he does actually play well. And yesterday was one of those days. 

When someone will criticise a player no matter what he does, it just means everybody stops listening. Your posts have become a parody. 

Stevo - also average performances get called average -  for whatever reason average Gabby performances get bigged up to something they are not imo and this frustrates me - other players over the years have not been afforded so much grace again imo 

[Xela]

Glad to see him score and would be a good impact sub once Kodija is back. 

However there are certain people who will never praise anything he ever does again. He's deserved a hell of a lot of stick in recent years, don't get me wrong, but i'm happy to see him work hard and at least try and make amends. 

[srsmithusa]

I'll admit to being a Gabby Schizophrenic.  What he did with his attitude and his fork the last 2 years should have never been tolerated.  He should have been sacked not just because his complete lack off interest and effort warranted it, but because failing to do so sent a horrible message to every other employee in the organization, and the customers of that organization.  It was a mistake.  I will forever believe it is an example of the reasons we have not been able to completely turn the corner from our losing mentality.  (or giving up leads mentality)  His actions were his fault.  But tolerating and setting aside his actions was the fault of 3 managers.  I still believe a culture that does not demand 100 solid and consistent effort from all employees, at all times is our problem.  Gabby did not cause the culture collapse, he was just caught in it.  And I think Gabby's attitude toward fitness and effort, and the response he received from management, fed and perpetuated that culture.   Having said that, after far too long, he has turned his attitude and effort around and I applaud him.  He deserves his place now based on current performance.  As a human being I admire that he has "grown up" in his attitude to what it should have been all along.  And I'm glad to see him do well.  But I think that in the grand scheme of things, if a manager had completely fired him at the time he deserved firing, it would have helped change the culture at Villa much sooner.   That culture by the way, I'm not really sure if it's changing or not.  But we could have and IMO should have changed it much faster.

[KHV]

At this moment in time Gabby is the least of our worries. I'm more concerned by the midfield and Scott Hogan.

[Guest av1]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

If he always performs like that I've got no problem with him being a regular.

Firstly, I've given him more stick than most, but credit wheres its due, he did ok yesterday. 

With regard to being a regular, based on yesterday, i wouldn't completely be opposed to it providing he is managed better. By that, i simply don't think he has the legs to go 90 minutes. Yesterday he looked good for 20 mins then looked shot. Recovered for a decent little spell in the second half, then died a death again. 

Also, like in a couple of games last season, he started from the left and got moved into the center, which annoyed me a little given that it was at the expense of Hogan who not only looked fitter at that stage of the game, but who for me is a more natural finisher. 

So i don't disagree with you, i just think be it from the start or the bench, he can give us no more than 50/60 minutes, and should only be considered from the left. 

 

[Rob182]

7 hours ago, Dave J said:

And of course Gabby has such a wonderful first touch that kills the ball dead - thus allowing so many forward thinking options to materislise from this particular aspect of his game. 

I see what you've done there.... you've cleverly referred to Gabby's first touch, which I didn't mention at all in my post, and used it to sarcastically agree. Very clever.

 

Read back my post and you'll see I was referring to the advantage he has over Hogan when heading or holding up play. Two attributes that don't really have anything to do with 'first touch'. 

[Guest av1]

7 hours ago, Rob182 said:

Anyone with an eyeball can see that Hogan is terrible at heading or holding up long balls, as our tactic towards the end was mainly this, I can see why Gabby would be favoured over Hogan.

Gabby played well in spells yesterday so I'm not knocking the bloke, and i agree he is better at holding up the ball. But i think he is still some way off fitness wise. There were dynamic spells followed by 20 minutes of blowing out of his arse. 

After a hour yesterday i though he was dead on his feet while Hogan still looked like he was full of running. Given that i also think Hogan is the more natural finisher, i thought it was a really poor substitution. 

[Mammoth10]

2 hours ago, Xela said:

Glad to see him score and would be a good impact sub once Kodija is back. 

However there are certain people who will never praise anything he ever does again. He's deserved a hell of a lot of stick in recent years, don't get me wrong, but i'm happy to see him work hard and at least try and make amends. 

People seem blinded by him to either love/hate him. As I stated yesterday, he put in a shift, and was a positive influence for us, unfortunately it only lasted for 30 minutes as that is all (I believe) he physically has to offer. Personally I think he's a tool, his own doing over the past 4/5 years but can offer us something in that impact role, unfortunately I think Bruce is blinded by him in the love category and I think he'll get far more minutes on the pitch than performance will warrant, even with Kodjia back...it will cost us this season I fear, Bruce's trust in mediocrity such as Gabby, Hutton and even worse Bacuna.

[Stevo985]

4 hours ago, Dave J said:

And of course we all respect yours do we not? I think you'll find the answer is a no here as well.

And in fairness Stevo on this particular topic I respectfully don't care- I have followed villa for many many years and I know a striker when I see one - friends of mine who follow other clubs would not want him anywhere near their team - what does this tell you ?

i will not change my view for you or anyone else for that matter- that's not being brash or arrogant at all - if you knew me then you would know I am totally from the other end of the spectrum - I just don't rate him or want him anywhere near the starting 11 and I see very little value in him - Gerrard Houllier wasn't wrong you know Stevo 

But Dave, this is your problem. 

You see any defence of a Gabby performance as someone being a complete Gabby supporter. 

I do not rate Gabby. I think he's crap and he's been crap for years. We should have sold him ages ago and if he was sold tomorrow I'd drive him to his new club myself. 

But that does not mean that I don't recognise that he can occasionally out in a good performance. Yesterday was one of them. 

The world isn't black and white. You don't have to hate everything Gabby ever does just because you don't rate him. To do so just means your opinion is diluted.

And it means that you see ANYTHING positive said about him as some sort of justification of him being in the team. 

You're  genuinely obsessed

[Dave J]

2 hours ago, Rob182 said:

I see what you've done there.... you've cleverly referred to Gabby's first touch, which I didn't mention at all in my post, and used it to sarcastically agree. Very clever.

 

Read back my post and you'll see I was referring to the advantage he has over Hogan when heading or holding up play. Two attributes that don't really have anything to do with 'first touch'. 

Hey Rob  with the absolute very greatest of respect - do you genuinely  think holding up the ball has nothing to do with having a good first touch ?

having played striker myself for many years I would challenge this view point.

if you don't have a good first touch and the ball bounces away from you - you don't hold the ball up.

Now as for Gabby - yes he is quick and I actually think he's reasonable in the air given his size - but a good touch ? I doubt even his most ardent followers would claim this much ?? Or maybe they do.

[Dave J]

28 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

But Dave, this is your problem. 

You see any defence of a Gabby performance as someone being a complete Gabby supporter. 

I do not rate Gabby. I think he's crap and he's been crap for years. We should have sold him ages ago and if he was sold tomorrow I'd drive him to his new club myself. 

But that does not mean that I don't recognise that he can occasionally out in a good performance. Yesterday was one of them. 

The world isn't black and white. You don't have to hate everything Gabby ever does just because you don't rate him. To do so just means your opinion is diluted.

And it means that you see ANYTHING positive said about him as some sort of justification of him being in the team. 

You're  genuinely obsessed

Ok Stevo - this:

i'm not  obsessed and you did use the H word again although I acknowledge in a different  context to previously.

maybe where we differ is simply this - I think he was no more than average again - you think more than this ? Who's wrong who's right ? And for me the bigger issue here is this - for whatever reason Gabby appears to have a "love in" way beyond what his ability warrants - he gets talked up for doing the very essesence of being a professional footballer " getting himself fit" is this not just bizarre ? and average performances get bigged up - whilst other players putting in similar levels of performance whilst busting a gut get pilloried - is it any wonder I get frustrated ? We have two natural goal scorers in McCormack & Hogan and it appears Bruce cannot get a tune out of either of them to date - yet he will persist with Gabby who has a terrible recent goal record ( see January  for latest example).

maybe I'll quit this thread - but I'll say it again in my most humble opinion he is not good enough for ASTON VILLA even at Championship level.

[8pints]

Agbonlahor does seem to have some enthusiasm back.

The thing for me with him is he always seems to need constant direction. I think, as well as tapping him on the shoulders and walking away leaving him confused, Ashley Young used to constantly talk him through the game and played the type of balls he wanted to run on to.

O'Neill was always talking to him as well, building him up and from interviews I've seen and read Carew would too. In Carew he also had someone to absorb some pressure and share the sledging of opposition.

I've seen Downing, Milner and a few other make comments to support this and that they were part of it.

I'm not saying Bruce doesn't do this and I also think with advancing years, his role in the club has changed, he's not this young quick striker, he's an older established member of the squad and a Villa fan. I think that last one always comes with baggage and, if you let it (which I think he has done over the years) a slight sense of entitlement.

I do think he lost his way but he has never been the most intelligent footballer. In his most successful years, as I've touched on, he was surrounded by people pumping him up but crucially telling him what to do, where to go and I think the most important one of all; what was likely to happen next, reading the game for him. As the years have gone on, he's found managers and players adopting a 'show me what you can do, lead the way' approach with him, which he's struggled with.

He's a very straightforward player; he's quick, strong, a wind up and only ever seems to think in the present, failing to read the game . He seems to feed off whatever the energy of a game is. This is one of the reasons I think he's always motivated for derbies. He's our Villa fan on the pitch, the Blues/Baggies/Wolves/Saddlers/etc hate him and he hates them. He thrives when that type of attention is on him because his adrenaline pushes him through and his strengths are utilised.

Then in any other games, there isn't that spotlight on him and I think he struggles to perform when people aren't focusing on him as much.

I wouldn't dispute anyone who thought he was lazy but sometimes I think his lack of ideas add to this because he doesn't know what to do when he has to think a little bit. Adding to that straightforward type of thinking, I do think he processes things in very simple steps "Ball's in the air, chase it down" "Defenders got the ball, chase him down" And as you see, the two examples are about pace and in the present. This is what was expected of him at his most successful time but when anyone's expected any more from him, he doesn't quite have it.

I'm not saying he's only pace because I think he's crossing is underestimated but I do think his whole game is built on it and his ankle damage is hampering the very foundation of his game. With that side of things becoming more difficult, added to his lack of concentration and direction (I include his own lack of initiative in that) we've seen his game suffer massively.

I'm not trying to blindly support him but I think it goes way back to when he was in the youth system, his pace was so immense and he was head and shoulders above the rest, I think this resulted in a lot of aspects of his game not being given attention.

His touch has never been great and it never will be but I wonder how much focus was on that when the game plan was always for him to run on to the ball, with his first touch either being a shot or to knock it further in front of him?

Again, maybe there was focus and he just didn't cut it or improve so they decided to just model him around his small area of strengths. I have seen interviews were the message seemed to be, we focused on him being quick and told him to build up his strength to protect himself from the treatment he may receive. His ankle injury came from reports he was focusing too much on bulking up but I don't know, to me that's just a rumour, it's one thing I've always looked for a definitive answer on but never found? I know he's hurt his ankle in other ways but was that what started it?

As you can see, I'm not saying he's a good footballer, I don't think he is and if he was sold I wouldn't be upset but I do think, whilst he's here, he can be useful.

This might sound a bit left field, but I do think he's benefit from being treated a little bit like a boxer, with that whole team incentive to build him up.

I'm not saying this in the sense we should carry him or he should be playing the whole 90 minutes but as an impact sub, it could be effective.

As I've said, he's quick, strong and like to get in opposition's faces. These things can be intimidating.

Just a few words from his team mates to the opposition.

"Gabby's warming up, you'll be in trouble soon"

"Here he comes, oh no, I wouldn't like to be you right now."

"He's gonna run past you" "He's not as quick as he was" "Still though, he's faster than you and he's strong, he'll leave you, mate, you won't see it coming. One ball over the top and he's away."

"I'll take him down" "Have you seen him? Look at him, he's built like a ****** I train with him, mate. He's a monster, quick and strong, you'll never face someone like him, someone that quick and that strong, forget it, mate, you haven't a chance."

Now I know this sledging type hyping might seem a bit strange and I'm sure it goes on anyway and many players could benefit from it, but I think this is the type of atmosphere Gabby would feed off. As long as he was receiving direction and the ball was being played to his strengths, especially in the league where the quality is still high but possibly the composure isn't, I think it would work.

To reiterate, I know this makes him possibly sound like a passenger almost, there's a level every professional should maintain regardless of the occasion and it's a lot of fuss but that's what I think Gabby thrives on and that's the type of atmosphere we need to create to see Gabby have the most impact.

 

The ultimate way to sum it up is he's a limited player who only thinks in the present, but he can be intimidating and whilst I don't think he's the ultimate answer, he could still have some effect if used correctly. And I don't think this just because he's a Villa fan.

Edited August 6, 2017 by 8pints

[Czechlad]

14 hours ago, Rob182 said:

Anyone with an eyeball can see that Hogan is terrible at heading or holding up long balls, as our tactic towards the end was mainly this, I can see why Gabby would be favoured over Hogan.

Needs to work on his fitness then. Gabby was invisible after 55 minutes. He wasn't running much unless he had to. It's a shame because the first half him and hogan were running all around the defenders which created a lot of space. 

[Zatman]

2 in 2 league games i believe

[sne]

He and Bacuna combined for a total of 59 ball touches on the left side of the field, Elmo had 67 on his own.

After a lively start and a goal  he was totally invisible and our left side non existent. That caused the the right side to also be nullified as Hull could put more focus there.

He just doesn't offer enough to be in the team not out wide anyway, impact sub maybe.

Nice goal thou

[Killeen30]

Listen we will all stop debating as soon as he picks up his next injury. It's bound to happen soon, he's due one.