TrentVilla Posted October 1, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2017 1 hour ago, PieFacE said: I think they're looking incredible and it was obvious it would take him a season to implement his ideas regardless of how much money was spent. Fair play to them, very exciting to watch. I think it is far too easy to use that as an excuse for what was a poor season last season and I don't think it really stands up to scrutiny. He spend £222m last summer, that should have been more than enough to implement his ideas into a side/squad already comprised of some more than decent talent. Their shortcomings last season weren't really due to an inability of the team to adapt to his football. They were caused predominately by poor decision making and poor performances of players that he signed, not least Stones and that clown of a keeper. Those things fall firmly on Pep and have little or nothing to do with the implementation of his ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 1, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2017 4 hours ago, TrentVilla said: I've been heavily critical of Pep over the last 12 months but its impossible to deny that they've improved quite considerably since this time last year. It is a matter of debate how impressive or significant that improvement is given the money spent. I still though have my doubts about them in the Nov-March period of the season when titles are won and games come thick and fast. My money is still on the more pragmatic United. I don't look at it quite the same, Mark. I find it difficult to be "heavily critical" of any successful manager, let alone a manager who's changed the way the game is played, to a degree. But the main thing is on the money spent really being much of a weighting on the extent of the improvement. Again, I think it's less about money and more about people adjusting. People are human (mostly). It doesn't really matter if they cost nothing or 50 million, ultimately they're just talented footballists. 10 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: I think it is far too easy to use that as an excuse for what was a poor season last season and I don't think it really stands up to scrutiny. He spend £222m last summer, that should have been more than enough to implement his ideas into a side/squad already comprised of some more than decent talent. Their shortcomings last season weren't really due to an inability of the team to adapt to his football. They were caused predominately by poor decision making and poor performances of players that he signed, not least Stones and that clown of a keeper. Those things fall firmly on Pep and have little or nothing to do with the implementation of his ideas. So on this as well, I think it takes any manager time. It doesn't matter whether it's Morinho at Utd. or Guardiola at City or Carsley (snigger) at Small Heath Where I do agree is in your comments about players making mistakes etc. Stones could given his age develop really well under PG. I'd rather players learnt under that sort of manager and way of playing than under say Warnock or whoever - which limits the extent they can develop to just when to pull a shirt, when to kick into row Z and how to win a free kick etc. The PG way could see players much better at reading the game, using the ball when they win it, where to be on the pitch etc. It's harder, no doubt to learn and to execute faultlessly, but longer term it's way better going back to the time thing again, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 1, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2017 I agree I'd rather players develop under Pep than Warnock but that is a different discussion altogether really. I simply don't accept the notion that City fell short last season because players were adapting to his way of playing, that is a cop out, in my opinion for the reasons I've already given. He signed a woeful goal keeper, totally ill suited to the nature of the game in this country and seemingly almost entirely incapable of making a save. How many points did that keeper cost them last season? That was Peps error and that was the main issue last season, not players adapting to his style. I'm not being heavily critical, I just find some of the excuses offered in his defence a little hollow. I also don't accept the idea that he "changed the way the game is played", that just isn't true. It is more accurate to save he evolved the game from the basis of those who went before him at Barcelona from Cruff through to Rijkaard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 He is progressively buying his way to the title, I think it is as simple as that. His inflated reputation is what kept him in a job last season as anyone else would have (rightly) been sacked. It would be hilarious if United beat them to it. I hate both clubs but hate City more so hopefully Jose pulls it off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I think he has revolutionised the way football is played and it does take a season for his players to adapt properly to his style of play. United are a threat but City have come through a much more difficult opening. For sake of Football I hope Pep wins this one over Jose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 1, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, PaulC said: I think he has revolutionised the way football is played and it does take a season for his players to adapt properly to his style of play. United are a threat but City have come through a much more difficult opening. For sake of Football I hope Pep wins this one over Jose. Evolution at most, certainly not revolution. It is just an extension of Ajax systems taken to Spain through Cruyff and then later added to by LVG and Rijjkaard in different ways. Pep has taken it on further absolutely but revolutionised? Not a chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Ok evolution not revolution but I have always said he should be judged this season because I think it does take more time than people think to get the ethos across to the players. Ok Conte did it in his first season at Chelsea but if Pep builds something more sustainable then he will have proved himself a better manager. I thought Conte lost the plot totally yesterday. Your striker gets injured so you bring William on. Pep outsmarted him. He even got Delph performing well as a left back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 1, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2017 36 minutes ago, PaulC said: I have always said he should be judged this season A lot of people said that. Including me. VT has the "he's bought success" excuse primed and ready though I think they're in for a really good season. And if they don't get it, then Pep should be rightly judged for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Might look silly but I'm still backing United as impressive as City were last night. Would be pretty amazing if City keep us this standard and still can't win the league and people anoint Pep as the new Keegan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 1, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2017 48 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: VT has the "he's bought success" excuse primed and ready though Having spent in excess of £400m already it’s a pretty indisputable fact. I’m struggling though to understand what it would be an excuse for? He is a very good manager, visionary even, but he fell short at Bayern despite being successful and last season he did the same. But like many others I think some of the praise lavished on him is ridiculous, I mean revolutionary? It’s so over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 1, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2017 14 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Having spent in excess of £400m already it’s a pretty indisputable fact. I’m struggling though to understand what it would be an excuse for? He is a very good manager, visionary even, but he fell short at Bayern despite being successful and last season he did the same. But like many others I think some of the praise lavished on him is ridiculous, I mean revolutionary? It’s so over the top. An excuse for him doing well. The consensus on here seems to be that he's only good because he spends money. And like I said, the excuse if he does well this season is already prepared. Along the lines of "well he spent money so he should be successful" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Let's remember City played some magnificent football at times under Pellegrini and Mancini. They were at different stages in their rise at those points but too easy to dismiss them going to Man. United and beating them 6-1 (they also went to Spurs and beat them 5-1 a few weeks before when they had Modric and Bale). A little bit like Bayern but how far he takes them in the CL will be a defining part of his tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 2, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 2, 2017 9 hours ago, Stevo985 said: An excuse for him doing well. The consensus on here seems to be that he's only good because he spends money. And like I said, the excuse if he does well this season is already prepared. Along the lines of "well he spent money so he should be successful" I don’t think anyone would offer an excuse for him doing well but undoubtably him having spent over £400m would be a significant contributing factor, I’m not really sure how anyone could argue otherwise. As for consensus, I don’t think there is one. Some, myself included think he is a very good but hugely over rated manager and one that underperformed last season. Then others don’t, they think he needed last season to bed in and shouldn’t be judged upon it. Whichever view point people hold, or if they fall somewhere in between his performance at City has to be factored against the frankly unparrelled amount he has spent even allowing for the inflated fees. Last season City fell short, in no small part due to the keeper he signed at great cost then replaced this summer for even more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Last year he was in a very similar position after about 10 games, City then fell away. It's a real joy to watch MC at the moment, like watching Barcelona a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 10 hours ago, VillaChris said: Let's remember City played some magnificent football at times under Pellegrini and Mancini. They were at different stages in their rise at those points but too easy to dismiss them going to Man. United and beating them 6-1 (they also went to Spurs and beat them 5-1 a few weeks before when they had Modric and Bale). A little bit like Bayern but how far he takes them in the CL will be a defining part of his tenure. Bayern are far worse now since he left. I think he will need a title as well as a champions league to define his tenure. But I honestly believe this season that anyone of 4 Premier League clubs could win the champions league. Mourinho is his great adversary and are polar opposites in their ethos. I want Pep to win it just because his style of play is the way I like to see football being played not the mourninho or even the Conte way. Spurs are good to watch as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 32 minutes ago, PaulC said: Bayern are far worse now since he left. I think he will need a title as well as a champions league to define his tenure. But I honestly believe this season that anyone of 4 Premier League clubs could win the champions league. Mourinho is his great adversary and are polar opposites in their ethos. I want Pep to win it just because his style of play is the way I like to see football being played not the mourninho or even the Conte way. Spurs are good to watch as well. Bit OT, but Pep never got Bayern playing at the same level as Jupp Heynckes did in his final season. For me that was the best club football I've ever witnessed, yes, even better than Barca at their prime. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Genie said: Last year he was in a very similar position after about 10 games, City then fell away. It's a real joy to watch MC at the moment, like watching Barcelona a few years back. Agree with this, it was actually a delight watching them play the other night. I mean I hate them for it, obviously, the jammy ****, but just on an aesthetic level it was beautiful to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Agree with this, it was actually a delight watching them play the other night. I mean I hate them for it, obviously, the jammy ****, but just on an aesthetic level it was beautiful to watch. I used to hate them but its not an issue anymore with the decline of the Villa but if you are a lover of football how can anybody not enjoy watching the way they play, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 2, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 2, 2017 3 hours ago, PaulC said: I used to hate them but its not an issue anymore with the decline of the Villa but if you are a lover of football how can anybody not enjoy watching the way they play, I enjoy watching them play but I want them to fail at the same time because I detest what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 Couldnt enjoy any team that employs the slimy clearing in the woods Delph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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