Big_John_10 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 and how is he meant to top what the club achieved under Ellis in less time in arguably a more difficult era to win anything. Appointing a half decent manager would probably help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 My choice is Lerner, but I'll NEVER forgive him for the appointment of McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Must be Ellis for me. Better football and more success. He also would never have appointed AM. Is this a joke ? People have short **** memories And selective ones ! We did play better football while Ellis was in charge, we did have more success and we didn't employ McLeish under Ellis as well. Morpheus is hardly lying. My memory of Ellis is probably selective in the same way you might also be selective concerning the O'Neill-Lerner era? Villa played some fantastic football under both 'Big Ron' and to a lesser extent 'Little.' Ellis did provide money for both managers yet he could be also a skint flint who's thinking probably held back the club when a more ambitious chairman might have prolonged the golden era for our club. The same could also be said of Lerner now. We were progressing under O'Neill and when it needed that extra impetus to push us further, Lerner stopped investing in ambition because, well, those reasons have already been talked about to death on here. But the main reason why i chose Ellis was that although he would have understood the grass root feeling against employing a former blue nose manager, he would never have considered AM as a possible candidate due to his previous managerial record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I see the Brown fans are laughing out loud after reading that McLeish is gonna learn from the Brown's coach. Depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 It shows how bad Randy is now doing, 21% would rather have Ellis. If this poll was done 2 years ago I firmly believe that Ellis would have had 0% of the vote but now 1 in 5 would rather have Doug!!!If this poll were done a year ago I bet only about 5% would've said Ellis. Remember, that was right after the Darren Bent signing. Up until the appointment of McLeish a lot of us (myself included) still thought Randy was at least semi-ambitious.I "famously" didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 21, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 21, 2012 If players, for whatever reason, confidence or limited ability for example, lose the ability to pass to a team mate 10 years away, then no manager on earth can play flowing football Other than Sid I'm not sure many players ever had this ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 If players, for whatever reason, confidence or limited ability for example, lose the ability to pass to a team mate 10 years away, then no manager on earth can play flowing football Other than Sid I'm not sure many players ever had this ability Salifou could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't quite get the point of this thread. Alot of fans are unhappy with Lerner, principally because of the appointment of such an average manager and his seeming apathy with most things Villa. Having said all that I don't see the point of comparing him to Ellis who is now ancient history. The list of things Ellis did wrong at Villa would take a huge thread in its own right. Surely a better comparison is to the attributes we would like to have in an owner of the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You'd have to be mad to opt for Ellis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You'd have to be mad to opt for Ellis. Why? When was the last time Ellis sold our best players and pocketed the proceeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Lerner is a buisnessman first and foremost, and running a football club is essentially year on year of running losses, I think he's entitled to pocket some of the proceeds in order to readress that balance. Our problems lie elsewhere, namely the piss poor lack of control over the wage issue, which has left us in a spot of bother. Also, we will soon need to adhere to the financial fair play rules, and I can't see us suddenly developing into the sort of club that can spend huge amounts of money each summer thanks to the huge profits we make. So, really, it's a tad unfair to turn on Lerner after his huge investment in our team, which has proved to be a tad unlucky seeing as he put faith in a manger with a habit of buying so-so players on big wages, players whom the subsequent managers couldn't get rid of, and so our best players had to go and the money couldn't be reinvested directly into the team because of the aforementioned wage bill and the costs of running a football club. It's not as black and white as Player X was sold and the money is there to spend on Player Y. How often does that actually happen at any club? A classic example would be the C. Ronaldo money, or more recently the huge fee's Arsenal got for Fabregas/Nasri/Clichy. The choice between Ellis/Lerner is really a case of interminable penny pinching or the current approach of cutting our cloth accordingly after a high-profile attempt to mix it with the big boys. Would a better manager have left us in a healthier position? That's up for debate, but what isn't is giving up on an owner due to a comedown from relative sucess, completely forgetting the endless mediocrity and frustration under Ellis. Yes, we had a few good managers that brought us sucess under Ellis, but dear me how sucessful would we have been if those managers had a few more pennies to spend at the right time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruff Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Great post CarewsEyebrowDesigner! Couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Selling Ashley Young and Stuart Downing and only replacing them with one (inferior) player is criminal. If Ellis had pulled a stunt like that he'd be hung drawn and quartered by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 21, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 21, 2012 Selling Ashley Young and Stuart Downing and only replacing them with one (inferior) player is criminal. If Ellis had pulled a stunt like that he'd be hung drawn and quartered by now.But he did that sort of thing ALL THE TIME! He replaced the European champions with a load of dross that ended up getting relegated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Selling Ashley Young and Stuart Downing and only replacing them with one (inferior) player is criminal. If Ellis had pulled a stunt like that he'd be hung drawn and quartered by now.But he did that sort of thing ALL THE TIME! He replaced the European champions with a load of dross that ended up getting relegated! When Ellis sold our top players he reinvested the cash received for them. Lerner has pocketed it. Absolutely scandalous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Selling Ashley Young and Stuart Downing and only replacing them with one (inferior) player is criminal. If Ellis had pulled a stunt like that he'd be hung drawn and quartered by now.But he did that sort of thing ALL THE TIME! He replaced the European champions with a load of dross that ended up getting relegated! When Ellis sold our top players he reinvested the cash received for them. Lerner has pocketed it. Absolutely scandalous. But from I am lead to believe, Ellis reinvested in inferior players. To go from Euro champs in 82 to relegation in 87 is shocking. But the 80s era is before my time, so I admit I dont know too much. Hence why I have not voted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windyhead Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I wanted Ellis gone he was holding us back IMO but we arguably achieved more as a club under him despite having significant less funding. hang on a sec - Ellis had 30 years in the Chairman's seat - Randy has been in since 2006. Its a little bit unfair to say we achieved more under Ellis (especially as the two major achievements occurred in the 7 yr window when he wasnt chairman!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Selling Ashley Young and Stuart Downing and only replacing them with one (inferior) player is criminal. If Ellis had pulled a stunt like that he'd be hung drawn and quartered by now.But he did that sort of thing ALL THE TIME! He replaced the European champions with a load of dross that ended up getting relegated! When Ellis sold our top players he reinvested the cash received for them. Lerner has pocketed it. Absolutely scandalous. lerner pocketed it did he? it didnt go towards the massive **** wage bill no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I hear this piss poor control over wages thing. You know what it wasn't the wages but the revenue that was / is the problem For the seasons we finished 6th we have the 6th highest wages in the league, seems about the right level of performance. Issue was we were never a top six club in terms of being able to sustain that. It took an awful lot of money to get us to that position but Lerner could not sustain it. Two things you would want Lerner to be better than Ellis about. MONEY and NOUS On the money he is now about the same, unable or unwilling to invest at a level to make us challengers On Nous, Ellis had more, he still has actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellbydate Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 easily my favourite villatalk buzz word, nous. absolute nothing statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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