blandy Posted February 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 16, 2012 At the end of the day, he owns two sports teams on two different continents, both of whom are doing badly, and the common denominator is Lerner. Correlation isn't the same as causation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villadude Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I wish we had Ellis with Lerners loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I wish we had Ellis with Lerners loot. Why, he'd not spend it on the club Remember the David Platt money, he built a stand and named it after himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 At the end of the day, he owns two sports teams on two different continents, both of whom are doing badly, and the common denominator is Lerner. Correlation isn't the same as causation. You don't think that Lerner is the cause of all the problems? Who else is then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 its a bit like asking do you want the right or left testicle removing.... its a no win situation! I think as a general rule, the left is often slightly bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I wish we had Ellis with Lerners loot. Why, he'd not spend it on the club Remember the David Platt money, he built a stand and named it after himself I am pretty sure that the Platt money also went on bringing in Dalian Atkinson, Steve Staunton etc, etc and Big Ron’s rebuild? Ellis had an ego the size of a stand for sure, Lerner seems to have the opposite. Maybe just maybe they could learn something from the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Maybe it was because I was younger at the time, but at no point under the Ellis regime was I put off going to Villa Park. I really can't be bothered these days despite having a season ticket and for this (short sighted) reason alone, I'm going for Herbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Maybe it was because I was younger at the time, but at no point under the Ellis regime was I put off going to Villa Park. I really can't be bothered these days despite having a season ticket and for this (short sighted) reason alone, I'm going for Herbie. Whilst the football is dire at the moment your feelings may also be partly down to modern football as a whole. Things like players wages and cost of attending, footballers attitude, people want more value for money and not just that I think modern life in general keeps us more busy. When the football starts to get like it has, its much easier to become less bothered especially when streams are readily available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Maybe it was because I was younger at the time, but at no point under the Ellis regime was I put off going to Villa Park. I really can't be bothered these days despite having a season ticket and for this (short sighted) reason alone, I'm going for Herbie. I can understand this viewpoint. I had my first season ticket in 1988 when I was 14 and have had one ever since. Ellis remained owner for my first 18 years as a S/T holder and during that time we finished runners up twice, won two league cups, reached an FA Cup final, finished 4th and top 6 on a further 5 occasions and had some great European nights at VP. There were therefore a fair few enjoyable seasons. I have to be honest though by the end of his reign I couldn't stand him and felt we were badly underachieving. Sadly I am now getting the same feelings under Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Was it 84 under Herbie we had a home attendance of 12,000 for a division one game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Was it 84 under Herbie we had a home attendance of 12,000 for a division one game Give McLeish and Lerner a few years and I am sure we can achieve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Maybe it was because I was younger at the time, but at no point under the Ellis regime was I put off going to Villa Park. I really can't be bothered these days despite having a season ticket and for this (short sighted) reason alone, I'm going for Herbie. Whilst the football is dire at the moment your feelings may also be partly down to modern football as a whole. Things like players wages and cost of attending, footballers attitude, people want more value for money and not just that I think modern life in general keeps us more busy. When the football starts to get like it has, its much easier to become less bothered especially when streams are readily available. Completely. The whole footballing experience under Ellis was just more exciting to me, which was down to far more things than simply the running of the club. My age, the footballing environment in general, financial factors etc all played a part in my experience of attending Villa Park. Perhaps it's unfair to compare the two for these reasons, but I think the level of enjoyment I get from going to Villa Park is the best barometer of success between the 2, and Ellis just about pips it for me. Maybe it was because I was younger at the time, but at no point under the Ellis regime was I put off going to Villa Park. I really can't be bothered these days despite having a season ticket and for this (short sighted) reason alone, I'm going for Herbie. I can understand this viewpoint. I had my first season ticket in 1988 when I was 14 and have had one ever since. Ellis remained owner for my first 18 years as a S/T holder and during that time we finished runners up twice, won two league cups, reached an FA Cup final, finished 4th and top 6 on a further 5 occasions and had some great European nights at VP. There were therefore a fair few enjoyable seasons. I have to be honest though by the end of his reign I couldn't stand him and felt we were badly underachieving. Sadly I am now getting the same feelings under Lerner. I was pretty sick of him by the time he left, I can't deny that. Personally, I've only been going with any regularity since '98, so perhaps some of the worse times were lost on me. But the period which typifies the Ellis period for me is the time when we had Gregory in charge. A man who cared about Aston Villa, and still does. I'd have supported a Gregory team come hell or high water, but I'm not so bothered about supporting a Mcleish team full of wantaways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I wish we had Ellis with Lerners loot. Why, he'd not spend it on the club Remember the David Platt money, he built a stand and named it after himself I am pretty sure that the Platt money also went on bringing in Dalian Atkinson, Steve Staunton etc, etc and Big Ron’s rebuild? No, every last penny went on the stand, and wasn't it via Ellmanton Construction (dougs very own newly set up building company) or was that the North Std? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It took Ellis 5 years to tear up a EC winning side to get us relegated. Lerner took a side who probably was destined for relegation and made it compete for the CL (oh, how sad the times of football are when it's considered a success to reach the 4th place in the league) within 2, and keeping us there for another two years. If we go down this season then it'll be good work undone, but his record would still be better than Ellis' first 6 years. I doubt anyone can dispute that. Ellis couldn't build on a good work, as he showed through the years, whilst Lerner could only halt a bad run. Still, we haven't been relegated yet, but the next few games are crucial. Lerners biggest misstakes was to be too naive when he had MON and it was utterly stupid to appoint AML for so many reasons. I don't think the fans shall appoint a manager, but when there are so many being against that appointment before he can even start his work it's almost bound to end in misery. Apart from that he's done from good to average with some blips. So, Lerner for me, without a shadow of a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I wish we had Ellis with Lerners loot. Why, he'd not spend it on the club Remember the David Platt money, he built a stand and named it after himself I am pretty sure that the Platt money also went on bringing in Dalian Atkinson, Steve Staunton etc, etc and Big Ron’s rebuild? No, every last penny went on the stand, and wasn't it via Ellmanton Construction (dougs very own newly set up building company) or was that the North Std? In Ellis defence, BFR himself said that "We actually sold players to buy players." I have it on vhs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 It took Ellis 5 years to tear up a EC winning side to get us relegated. If you're going to say that, then you should also say he took a newly promoted team to second place within two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 16, 2012 It took Ellis 5 years to tear up a EC winning side to get us relegated. If you're going to say that, then you should also say he took a newly promoted team to second place within two years. Except chairmen sell players (on the scale we did after 82) and managers build successful teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 One other small matter, didn't HDE own SHA for a period of time too ? Or did I just dream that up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It took Ellis 5 years to tear up a EC winning side to get us relegated. If you're going to say that, then you should also say he took a newly promoted team to second place within two years. Except chairmen sell players (on the scale we did after 82) and managers build successful teams. But Chairman appoint managers and give them the infrastructure to work within. This is certainly highlighted by the weakness of our current chairman in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 16, 2012 At the end of the day, he owns two sports teams on two different continents, both of whom are doing badly, and the common denominator is Lerner. Correlation isn't the same as causation. You don't think that Lerner is the cause of all the problems? Who else is then? No I don't think that Randy Lerner is the cause of all the problems. Do you? Do we even think the "problems" are the same? I suspect we might not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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