Risso Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Randolph every day of the week. He realised belatedly that he backed the wrong horse with O'Neill, and we're still trying to recover from that. Get this season out of the way, and I think we'll see a resurgent Villa, under both Lerner and Mcleish, next season. Sorry, but the hiring of mcleish doesn't provide much evidence to back the optimistic view that lerner will get us challenging again. Surely that depends how highly one rates Mcleish? I rate him relatively highly, although given the groundswell of opinion against him, I think he's got his work cut-out to turn both the team, and importantly the fans, around. I really don't understand why you rate him so higly Jon. His Premier League record is dismal, and there is no way that we should be bottom currently of the "also rans" league ie the all the teams other than the top and bottom 5. His style of football is awful, his results have been almost as bad, and his purchases not a lot better. I wish I could see something that inspires confidence in him, but there really is nothing. He isn't a good coach, the players don't seem to respect him and the vast majority of the fans didn't and don't want him. Other than ridiculous examples, I struggle to think of a worse manager Lerner could have picked. Most of us predicted poor, dull football leading to a possible relegation battle, and that's exactly what we've got. I can see why lerner picked him, which I imagine is for two reasons. 1) He was desperate to get away from Blues, so would have taken any old job, and 2) it's a human shield for Lerner to hide behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 16, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 16, 2012 Martin O'Neill agreed to manage Aston Villa because Randy was taking over imminently. Ellis got to parade the new man almost as a parting gift. We wouldn't have had O'Neill as manager if Ellis was not selling. We both know the reality of it, uppercase or not.As I said the reasons for Oneill coming are subject to conjecture. The reality is Ellis appointed him and Lerner did not. It's true that the signatures on the contract were those of MO'N and HDE. I think it's more than "conjecture" that Randy's takeover was ONE of the reasons for MO'N coming. There were other reasons too - a desire to get back into football after his wife's illness, the location of the Club and MO'N's consideration of the prospective working environment. Anyone believing that MO'N did not consider that the club was in the throes of a takeover process, and that having met and talked to the prospective new owner (Randy) which he did, he took no account of what Randy said about his plans, finances and so on prior to signing the contract would IMO be perfectly entitled to take that view, but would also be missing either intentionally or unintentionally a clearly significant aspect. Equally, had Randy Lerner not, having met MO'N, wanted MO'N to be manager, people are perfectly entitled to believe that MO'N would still have signed, regardless, but again I feel it would be overlooking a significant factor. Undoubtedly the MO'N Randy partnership was formed partly out of a converging of hitherto unlinked events, or happenstance, and both got lucky, getting what they wanted at a time they wanted. Ellis also, as has been said, got some "final glory" and a day in the sun at the signing. All three parties knew that Ellis would be selling up at the time of MO'N's appointment. There's more, but it would be off topic, and is history anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Randolph every day of the week. He realised belatedly that he backed the wrong horse with O'Neill, and we're still trying to recover from that. Get this season out of the way, and I think we'll see a resurgent Villa, under both Lerner and Mcleish, next season. Sorry, but the hiring of mcleish doesn't provide much evidence to back the optimistic view that lerner will get us challenging again. Surely that depends how highly one rates Mcleish? I rate him relatively highly, although given the groundswell of opinion against him, I think he's got his work cut-out to turn both the team, and importantly the fans, around. I really don't understand why you rate him so higly Jon. His Premier League record is dismal, and there is no way that we should be bottom currently of the "also rans" league ie the all the teams other than the top and bottom 5. His style of football is awful, his results have been almost as bad, and his purchases not a lot better. I wish I could see something that inspires confidence in him, but there really is nothing. He isn't a good coach, the players don't seem to respect him and the vast majority of the fans didn't and don't want him. Other than ridiculous examples, I struggle to think of a worse manager Lerner could have picked. Most of us predicted poor, dull football leading to a possible relegation battle, and that's exactly what we've got. I can see why lerner picked him, which I imagine is for two reasons. 1) He was desperate to get away from Blues, so would have taken any old job, and 2) it's a human shield for Lerner to hide behind. some reasons why Lerner likes him (genuine) 1. he is prepared to work with what hes got and buys into the vision of lowering the wage bill. 2. He is prepared to work with the sell to buy policy put in place by the owner. 3. He is prepared to give our emerging youth players a chance 4. You wont see him slating the running of the club in the papers or bringing any bad press the clubs way for off the field activities. 5. RL believes in him, he must do else he wouldnt have employed one of the most hated managers in villas history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Lerner. He just needs to realise he has **** up majorly when appointing both Faulkner and Mcleish.He doesn't. If he did neither would be at the club. They are here because they are doing as he wants Did you even read what I wrote? NEEDS TO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 some reasons why Lerner likes him (genuine) 1. he is prepared to work with what hes got and buys into the vision of lowering the wage bill. 2. He is prepared to work with the sell to buy policy put in place by the owner. 3. He is prepared to give our emerging youth players a chance 4. You wont see him slating the running of the club in the papers or bringing any bad press the clubs way for off the field activities. 5. RL believes in him, he must do else he wouldnt have employed one of the most hated managers in villas history. 1) and 2) aren't that far removed from what I said. And it's not much of a "vision" really is it?! 3) Fair enough maybe, but it's not like he's got much of a choice! 4) When your last team was SHA, even Austerity Villa must feel like managing Real Madrid. In any case, the on the field activities provide enough bad news for most people to cope with. 5) If that's true, more proof that Lerner came down in the last shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 RRandolph every day of the week. He realised belatedly that he backed the wrong horse with O'Neill, and we're still trying to recover from that. Get this season out of the way, and I think we'll see a resurgent Villa, under both Lerner and Mcleish, next season.so lermer sacked Mon? Nope. I don't believe I've said that Tricky.So what are you saying then Jon? he thought he was backing the wrong horse but still kept the horse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 17, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2012 the owner and the horse fell out, the horse bolted. The horse blamed the owner for making him bolt, the owner blamed the horse for bolting. Eventually it was acknowledged that the breakdown in the relationship was a mutual thing. The horse and the owner settled half way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The owner was heard saying to the horse, 'why the long face?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejoker Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It's like asking if I prefer sick or spit the best....I went for Lerner (spit)...just! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600rr Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 we knew where we were under doug..hang on.. we dont know where we are with learner, ellis wanted a steady ship to sell,i carnt see learner in charge in say 5 years time,all we hear is "arabs/takeover/£/" any truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It shows how bad Randy is now doing, 21% would rather have Ellis. If this poll was done 2 years ago I firmly believe that Ellis would have had 0% of the vote but now 1 in 5 would rather have Doug!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It shows how bad Randy is now doing, 21% would rather have Ellis. If this poll was done 2 years ago I firmly believe that Ellis would have had 0% of the vote but now 1 in 5 would rather have Doug!!!If this poll were done a year ago I bet only about 5% would've said Ellis. Remember, that was right after the Darren Bent signing. Up until the appointment of McLeish a lot of us (myself included) still thought Randy was at least semi-ambitious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Lerner has appointed a fail manager and refuses to get rid of him precisely why i voted for ellis if it had been him A) He would never been appointed in the first place and He would have had the sack by now All the investments Randy has made in the club including the rebuild of the holte pub of course have all been undone by 2 fail appointments in a row actually 3 fail appointments include Faulkner in there as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I strongly disagree with Randy's insistence on keeping McLeish in the job but to be fair Ellis appointed some shit managers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I strongly disagree with Randy's insistence on keeping McLeish in the job but to be fair Ellis appointed some shit managers too. Mcleish is Lerners Billy McNeill and we all know what happened with that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well, Lerner is sending McLeish to learn from the American Football coaches. Why can't he send himself to Birmingham to take some advice from Ellis? I have noticed that Ellis is at almost every match, and the old man really cares. When it's not his money on the line, I am sure he would smarten Lerner up and make him do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villapark1 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 In my opinion "yes" Learner has done alot around the Villa facilities, New Holte Pub, Bodymoore Heath etc, but I would have much preffered to watch my beloved Villa become bigger for football reasons rather that looking the part with the facilities but taking backward steps regarding football. I think he had proved since MON has gone that the 5 year plan no longer exists (no matter what he says in his ST letter), and is more than happy with just maintaining premiership status (something thats not even a certainty anymore). I would have much preffered watching a football team going places than seeing a nice pub on the way to Villa park and exceptional training facilities... Randy needs to understand the football comes first...Anything else can wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villapark1 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I strongly disagree with Randy's insistence on keeping McLeish in the job but to be fair Ellis appointed some shit managers too. Agreed mate, but at least Ellis corrected those decisions eventually. Something tells me Randy hasn't got the bottle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I strongly disagree with Randy's insistence on keeping McLeish in the job but to be fair Ellis appointed some shit managers too. Agreed mate, but at least Ellis corrected those decisions eventually. Something tells me Randy hasn't got the bottle...Not always. I agree though, Randy doesn't look like he has the bottle. The only way I can see us getting rid of this parasite is if Randy sells up and we get new owners or McLeish resigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harris21 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Randy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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