Straight choice - Ellis or Lerner?

[AshVilla]

I didnt actaully realize.. When O'Leary took over villa we were just above the relegation zone..But he managed to guide us to 6th in the league..and he was the one who signed Martin Laursen.. And managed to get us to 10th in his Full season..But then nearly got us relegated in his Last season..but i think this is like our 2005–06 season under O'Leary.. instead it will be AM who will be gone in the summer.

Dream on if you think AM will be gone in the summer

We have a chairman without a spine who will not admit to his mistakes even should McLeish take us down this summer or the next he will still be our manager

[Stevo985]

The way i see it, Lerner has taken 1 step forward and 2 steps back.. For the whole time he has owned the club.

I see it the other way round.

2 steps forward and one step back. We aren't in as bad a position as we were when Randy took over

[PauloBarnesi]

Its almost getting to the point where the question might be Carson Yeung or Lerner ?

[danceoftheshamen]

Well i would have said Lerner by a country mile a couple of seasons back but what the heck happened?

I know we had a high wage bill etc but the cataclysmic collapse that has happened since those "heady" days (well a kind of heady) under Mr O'neill has been utterly staggering.

I have never quite understood the rapid nature of our decline? I mean why wasn't this done more gradually? It was literally sell everyone worth having asap & replace with poor cheap alternatives? :?

I Don't get it! Did randy sit down one day & go OMG! I didn't realise we were spending that much?

Something just doesn't add up for me.

As for who well as it stands i really don't know. Don't get me wrong i would never ever say Ellis as that guy gave me 25 years of frustration but seldom during that 25 years can i remember feeling as let down as i do today after what happened from the day MON departed.

So my answer has to be ...neither

[DelboyVilla]

Blimey we have all become obessed on here with comparing old and new? It's either Randy or HDE, McLeish or Houllier or MON and N'Zogbia or Downing or Young?

Shouldn't we just be concerned that Lerner is wrecking our club, McLeish is a talentless dire manager and N'Zogbia is an overpriced and overpaid prima donna?

I cannot for the life of me understand Lerner's thinking at the moment? It's like he has brought a shining new Rolls Royce and given it to a joyriding **** to look after? It will certainly be decreasing in value everytime the **** takes it for a drive?

[Richard]

Villaandloyal top top post that. Lerner get's goodwill, very much like JPA did imo, because he is seen as a victory against Ellis. Anyone but Ellis means people do not want to see through the gloss, in my opinion.

[Richard]

cannot for the life of me understand Lerner's thinking at the moment? It's like he has brought a shining new Rolls Royce and given it to a joyriding **** to look after? It will certainly be decreasing in value everytime the **** takes it for a drive?

I think the post from villanadloyal explains that it is par for the course and not some mental aberration

[Richard]

So given the financial situation at the club, anyone want to change their opinion?

[Mantis]

No.

[Richard]

No.

Nor me ;-)

[blandy]

Villaandloyal top top post that. Lerner get's goodwill, very much like JPA did imo, because he is seen as a victory against Ellis. Anyone but Ellis means people do not want to see through the gloss, in my opinion.

That's half true - I agree that from many he has a stock of good-will, he does from me. But the rest I disagree with. My goodwill towards him is not because "he isn't Ellis" , or as some sort of "victory". As it happens I have no bad will towards Ellis. I don't like the way he ran the club, or many of his personal characteristics, but I don't wish him any ill at all.

As for Randy the goodwill I have towards him stems from his decency, from his putting 133 million into the club, from him not wanting anything for himself from it. Also because of the good things he's done.

Clearly my view of how he's running the club has changed over time as more information and experiences come to light. The finances are a mess, the choices of managers have been extremely poor, to say the least, and the last one immensely so. But still there's some credit in the bank of will, from me.

I'm not sure what "gloss" you think there is that people can't see through. That comes across as though you think you have somehow greater perceptive powers rather than a different opinion. It's not a good generalisation, IMO.

[commander]

Well i would have said Lerner by a country mile a couple of seasons back but what the heck happened?

I know we had a high wage bill etc but the cataclysmic collapse that has happened since those "heady" days (well a kind of heady) under Mr O'neill has been utterly staggering.

I have never quite understood the rapid nature of our decline? I mean why wasn't this done more gradually? It was literally sell everyone worth having asap & replace with poor cheap alternatives? :?

I Don't get it! Did randy sit down one day & go OMG! I didn't realise we were spending that much?

Something just doesn't add up for me.

As for who well as it stands i really don't know. Don't get me wrong i would never ever say Ellis as that guy gave me 25 years of frustration but seldom during that 25 years can i remember feeling as let down as i do today after what happened from the day MON departed.

So my answer has to be ...neither

So given the financial situation at the club, anyone want to change their opinion?

Now ask yourselves why we are in this financial position. Lerner backing MON. MON was given a hell of a lot of money - far too much than the club can afford and he pissed it up the wall.

If it wasn't for Lerner we'd have folded after MONs wastefullness.

Lerner has (on the whole) done far more for the Villa than Ellis did - The McLeish thing is a shambles but so was backing MON when it was clear he would never be good enough to challenge at the top (over the course of a season).

[Risso]

Now ask yourselves why we are in this financial position. Lerner backing MON. MON was given a hell of a lot of money - far too much than the club can afford and he pissed it up the wall.

If it wasn't for Lerner we'd have folded after MONs wastefullness.

Lerner has (on the whole) done far more for the Villa than Ellis did - The McLeish thing is a shambles but so was backing MON when it was clear he would never be good enough to challenge at the top (over the course of a season).

If it wasn't for Lerner, O'Neill couldn't have been wasteful in the first place. You seriously think we should be thankful for Lerner saving us from O'Neill's wastefulness, when he was the person who permitted it in the first place? Do you want to go away and have a little think about that?

[LancsVillan]

Now ask yourselves why we are in this financial position. Lerner backing MON. MON was given a hell of a lot of money - far too much than the club can afford and he pissed it up the wall.

If it wasn't for Lerner we'd have folded after MONs wastefullness.

Lerner has (on the whole) done far more for the Villa than Ellis did - The McLeish thing is a shambles but so was backing MON when it was clear he would never be good enough to challenge at the top (over the course of a season).

If it wasn't for Lerner, O'Neill couldn't have been wasteful in the first place. You seriously think we should be thankful for Lerner saving us from O'Neill's wastefulness, when he was the person who permitted it in the first place? Do you want to go away and have a little think about that?

Thing is Risso that it was Randy's decision to back MO'N with HIS money, not yours, not mine, not even the clubs as that too is HIS money. Randy believed that by backing MO'N to the level he did that we could break into the CL where the extra finance would support further growth, when it never something simply had to give. Is it 'wasteful' I don't know; was it careless - quite probably but it was Randy's money to waste. I don't see Randy complaining about it, only Villa fans.

[Ginko]

If it wasn't for Lerner, O'Neill couldn't have been wasteful in the first place. You seriously think we should be thankful for Lerner saving us from O'Neill's wastefulness, when he was the person who permitted it in the first place? Do you want to go away and have a little think about that?

Well hindsight is a wonderful thing. I don't think when Randy agreed to MON coming in that MON went up to him and told him that he was going to buy a lot of average players, put them on lengthy contracts with big wages... and then never play them.

But anyway, I personally think Randy, the board and MON all have to take some of the blame.

As a choice between Randy and Doug though? Randy any day of the week. He's done a lot for the club. Yes, the last two seasons have been atrocious and I think a lot of us are waiting for his next move which could make or break him, but the fact is, he put a lot of money into the club and let a proven Premier League manager of a high standard run the club without interfering. I remember lots of friends of mine who supported other clubs commenting how good an owner Randy was for not getting too involved. In hindsight, he should have kept a closer eye on things and no doubt people who work under him have to be blamed too for letting things get out of hand so we're in the situation we're in now.

As is with a lot of arguments where there is rarely ever one person completely right and the other completely wrong, and in this situation there is no one person to blame for the state the club is in right now. However, as the man in charge, Randy has to take most responsibility.

Still prefer him to Doug though personally.

[DelboyVilla]

Now ask yourselves why we are in this financial position. Lerner backing MON. MON was given a hell of a lot of money - far too much than the club can afford and he pissed it up the wall.

If it wasn't for Lerner we'd have folded after MONs wastefullness.

Lerner has (on the whole) done far more for the Villa than Ellis did - The McLeish thing is a shambles but so was backing MON when it was clear he would never be good enough to challenge at the top (over the course of a season).

If it wasn't for Lerner, O'Neill couldn't have been wasteful in the first place. You seriously think we should be thankful for Lerner saving us from O'Neill's wastefulness, when he was the person who permitted it in the first place? Do you want to go away and have a little think about that?

Thing is Risso that it was Randy's decision to back MO'N with HIS money, not yours, not mine, not even the clubs as that too is HIS money. Randy believed that by backing MO'N to the level he did that we could break into the CL where the extra finance would support further growth, when it never something simply had to give. Is it 'wasteful' I don't know; was it careless - quite probably but it was Randy's money to waste. I don't see Randy complaining about it, only Villa fans.

And I also remember alot of Villa fans on here at the time when MON was 'wasting' Lerner's money critizing MON for not spending more and taking an age to sign players? Thank McGrath we didn't sign as many players as some posters wanted us to?

[Risso]

Now ask yourselves why we are in this financial position. Lerner backing MON. MON was given a hell of a lot of money - far too much than the club can afford and he pissed it up the wall.

If it wasn't for Lerner we'd have folded after MONs wastefullness.

Lerner has (on the whole) done far more for the Villa than Ellis did - The McLeish thing is a shambles but so was backing MON when it was clear he would never be good enough to challenge at the top (over the course of a season).

If it wasn't for Lerner, O'Neill couldn't have been wasteful in the first place. You seriously think we should be thankful for Lerner saving us from O'Neill's wastefulness, when he was the person who permitted it in the first place? Do you want to go away and have a little think about that?

Thing is Risso that it was Randy's decision to back MO'N with HIS money, not yours, not mine, not even the clubs as that too is HIS money. Randy believed that by backing MO'N to the level he did that we could break into the CL where the extra finance would support further growth, when it never something simply had to give. Is it 'wasteful' I don't know; was it careless - quite probably but it was Randy's money to waste. I don't see Randy complaining about it, only Villa fans.

Our football team has effectively been ruined by Lerner's hopeless ownership, of course we're going to moan about it. And I don't suppose he's that bothered, it's not like he earned his money, and he still has enough for a poncey new private jet.

[wildwood]

Whilst I wouldn't mind some Qatari, or whatever, billionaires. I also remember Ellis' reign, and if I had to pick - I'd rather have Lerner - by a mile. So Lerner for me.

[blandy]

Thing is Risso that it was Randy's decision to back MO'N with HIS money, not yours, not mine, not even the clubs as that too is HIS money. Randy believed that by backing MO'N to the level he did that we could break into the CL where the extra finance would support further growth, when it never something simply had to give. Is it 'wasteful' I don't know; was it careless - quite probably but it was Randy's money to waste. I don't see Randy complaining about it, only Villa fans.

There's a good point in that, Al. Yet it's also true that the club has been spending money it doesn't have and Randy doesn't have - i.e the loans are neither Randy's money or the Club's money. The money has to be paid back. Paying it back and paying the interest is a burden that we could do without.