The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[HackneyVillain]

I'm not in any way pro-McLeish but I can't find a lot of fault with him based on the game yesterday.

Our ability to keep the ball is poor but it has been (in my view) for at least 20 years since the days of Big Ron. At least yesterday we didn't hoof it (because Collins wasn't in the team?). On one of the few occasions we did string some passes together we scored our second goal - probably the best single bit of football I've seen from AVFC since the second goal against Man Utd last season.

We need wholesale changes at the back and I'm sure AM knows it but is the middle of the season really the time to do it?

[Keyblade]

I dont even take satisfaction on posting about McLeish anymore. I am fed up with those who are desperate to justify him being manager no matter how poor. I dont care whose fault people argue it is, if you are getting paid millions to manage what effectively is a multination, multi million pound business then effectively, the buck stops with you.

So far, attendances are down, merchandising is down, performances in the main product area are down and the business is stagnating at best.

Question is, what you going to do Randy?

Nobody's justifying him being manager by saying he wasn't at fault for the goals. Really shows up your extremely clouded judgement. To you there are only those who are vitriolically against McLeish no matter what happens, and those who are staunchly pro-McLeish. Which is absolutely ridiculous. For one, I'm sure you remember the poll held on this very site where there were only like 3 people out of 300+ who wanted McLeish to stay. Most of us didn't want him, and would rather he got fired asap, but that doesn't mean that we hurl vitriol at him at any window of opportunity no matter how small or nonexistant.

Can you highlight the vitriol in his post please because I am really struggling to spot it? I think he is presenting his view fairly calmly, particularly after having watched yesterday's second half when McLeish did nothing tactically to prevent the Arsenal onslaught that was all so evident to anyone watching.

McLeish is tactically naive, as was MON IMO but he had the offsetting benefit of being a superb motivator, and really isn't capable of managing at this level as his CV so aptly demonstrates.

Those who continue to support McLeish are, IMO, not acting in the benefit of the club as the club will only progress once he has been shown the door. Of course, you are entitled to hold a different view and this is the very nature of forums.

I wasn't referring to him or even his post specifically.

[Pelle]

How can scoring from a corner be called scoring on the break away? :? And did people really expect us to win away to Arsenal? Yeah, we took the lead 2-0, which is a dangerous lead to have, and lost it. We've done that before. Someone mentioned Gregory and I think he was the manager when the exact same thing happened at Highbury some 12-13 years ago. Arsenal is a good team, one of the best in the league, and are capable of turning games like these whilst we find it hard to keep them. It sucks being 2-0 up and lose, but it happens.

And players like Dunne have always done these things, it's nothing new under AML. You can't teach an old dog to sit, and you can't teach Dunne not to dive in like headless moron when he wants to. Unless you put him out of the team. But still, no one knows if we'd keep the score even if he hadn't done that error.

AML is to blame for many things, but not this game. At least it was an exciting game for about an hour, a lot more than I'd hoped for. I even suspect that some are angry that we actually stood a chance but lost in a way that they know that they really can't blame him for.

Of course it was PR, but I think Trents a little harsh on him above - as he asked many a time for people to ask questions in an appropriate manner. Instead he was bombarded with 'I wish you and Randy would f**k off back to where you came from etc' and it just turned into a bit of a cringeworthy joke.

You are wrong, we couldn't have moderated it more heavily and all abuse was removed. That was not the reason he stopped posting or the thread was closed but hey what would I know I only spent countless hours over a number of years moderating the thing.

At the end of the day he simply stopped posting when he got a new job. There was nothing harsh or untrue about what I posted.

Anyway this is a thread about our manager so lets get it back on topic shall we.

Yes, it is, but a post like that must be challenged. How can you possibly say that you know that wasn't the reason when you a few posts above said that you don't know why he left? He didn't tell you why, he left without a word, so you can't know that isn't true. He was abused, and no matter how good a work you did to moderate that thread it was there for evryone to see, including him. So you might think that wasn't the reason, but you really don't know. So don't try and state that as a fact. Unless he didn't tell you, but if so you can't say he left without a word.

[briny_ear]

We need wholesale changes at the back and I'm sure AM knows it but is the middle of the season really the time to do it?

Good point, but I remember Houllier saying something similar last season.

Somebody's got to bite the bullet at some point.

On the other hand, maybe McLeish is waiting to see if Stevens/Lichaj/Baker can be introduced in an orderly fashion to tackle the main problem of full backs.

[AVFCforever1991]

Get this bloody Clown out of our Club.

[Mantis]

We need wholesale changes at the back and I'm sure AM knows it but is the middle of the season really the time to do it?

He had ample opportunity in the summer but merely made it worse by getting rid of Young and bringing in Hutton to replace him. Cloggers like Dunne and Collins are his type of defender. Even when they do finally go he'll only bring in people of the same calibre.

If players are repeating errors then it is the responsibility of management to train it out of them or to drop the player in question. That they haven't been able to do that isn't the players fault. And it's not as if the players were repeatedly making the same mistakes under both our previous managers.

(There is such a thing as an individual error, but when these build up and up in number you have to start looking for the culprit higher up the chain.)

I agree. Something clearly isn't right with the management when we are consistently making costly mistakes.

So is there anyone, one single person who agrees with Alex McLeish that our performance in the first half was, and I quote him directly here "international class".

This from the man who has given us such gems as "Downing won't be sold", "Robbie Keane is at his peak" and "its a myth that I'm defensive".

I would be stunned if there is a single person who watched the match that agrees with him, perhaps now everyone can agree on at least one thing. Alex McLeish is deluded.

He's a complete tool. He's worse than Steve Kean when it comes to bullshit. Scratch, he's worse than Steve Kean in all departments.

[momo]

I enjoyed the game yesterday. Yeah, we lost but the players really gave their all. I can't complain about effort.

Yeah, there were a few mistakes at the back that led to the goals. I do not blame Hutton for the second goal. Watching it again, there was an Arsenal player to his right coming in...so yeah..with his left foot.....c'mon...it was a fluke Arsenal goal. The penalties were error in judgment from both Dunne and Bent. Not McLeish.

Stop blaming McLeish for everything. I read this board after the game, not during it. What a load of rubbish some of you post. Yeah, it is in the 'heat of the game'. Shit happens. Villa play good, the lose. Next time, Villa play bad and win. This is football. We do not have Messi, Ronaldo, Pique in our team We are what we are, inferior technically to Arsenal.

The players gave their all, applaud it. Stop moaning.

[AVFCforever1991]

I enjoyed the game yesterday. Yeah, we lost but the players really gave their all. I can't complain about effort.

Yeah, there were a few mistakes at the back that led to the goals. I do not blame Hutton for the second goal. Watching it again, there was an Arsenal player to his right coming in...so yeah..with his left foot.....c'mon...it was a fluke Arsenal goal. The penalties were error in judgment from both Dunne and Bent. Not McLeish.

Stop blaming McLeish for everything. I read this board after the game, not during it. What a load of rubbish some of you post. Yeah, it is in the 'heat of the game'. Shit happens. Villa play good, the lose. Next time, Villa play bad and win. This is football. We do not have Messi, Ronaldo, Pique in our team We are what we are, inferior technically to Arsenal.

The players gave their all, applaud it. Stop moaning.

Im not blaming McLeish for the result but i will blame him for the reckless challenges, because im pretty sure he told the players to get stuck in at half time, which then lead to 2 penalties , there was no need for dunne to go in like that.

[CI]

Yep no complaints about yesterday McLeish picked a decent side and we were set up well for a smash and grab Job

More importantly now it's how Eck gets the team ready for a massive game against QPR which is a MUST win home game

[Mantis]

McLeish was once again too late in trying to shake things up with substitutions/tactical changes. Also, in that second half we didn't really look bothered for a lot of it.

QPR will be interesting. Can't see us winning it though.

[Keyblade]

The bench wasn't all that strong, and I felt that if we were going to get back in the game, it would have been those on the pitch (namely Ireland, Gabby, Keane and Bent) who were going to do it.

[kidlewis]

just seen a video of the infamous elbow incident. 100% deliberate and he should receive a ban as long as Balotelli has for the Parker stamp.

[Keyblade]

Lescott didn't get banned for his equally deliberate elbow.

[Woodytom]

The strange thing is when people say hes negative and we sit too deep - Whenever I see him on the sides hes telling the players to push forward.

So why aren't the players doing it? Lack of confidence? Ability? Both?

The manager at a club has such an impact on everything the players do. If there's no respect for the manager then a club will never succeed, and we have had to put up with a manager who cannot command respect for 2 seasons now.

Yes the players need to take some of the responsibility as there are a fair few ego's in our dressing room but appointing AMC was always going to be a disaster. He cannot organise a team, the amount of times our defence was all over the place yesterday was shocking. You'd think after 6 months in charge you would expect to see some improvement, or signs that point to it, but we are making mistake after mistake and playing the same awful football 80% of the time.

And to top it off we have a manager who clearly thinks that he can bullshit his way through any fan criticism.

Lack of ability would be my immediate answer. For me, we never keep the ball long enough to impose any sort of game plan of our own on other teams. And its been like that for yonks at Villa. I really do wonder if theyve ever practiced keeping the ball in training in a long time at AVFC. Its abysmal to watch. That said, the football for the 2nd goal was outstanding so they can do it.

I guess this comes back to the manager then. They can do it, so why aren't they? It's clearly not easier just to hoof the ball away and precede to panic defend for large periods of the game so why do they do it?

We need a manager who demands that our players play football. I would imagine that a fair few of us, myself included, would actually be surprised at how skillful some of our players are.

Our squad is not Top 6 material but we have some good players...

Given - Quality GK

Warnock/Hutton - I have never seen either play so badly for the previous clubs it's like they don't have a clue what to do.

Dunne - Always looks good for ROI

Ireland - Getting back to playing quite well.

CNZ - Another who I've never seen play so badly for anyone else.

Bent - Goal Machine.

I just wish we had someone like Paul Lambert who would sort our team out.

I struggle to judge how crap/good all of our players are at the moment whilst they play for a clueless, tactic free manager.

If it is the manager (and I dont necessarily disagree) then there are a lot of managers to blame over the last 10-15 years because I have never seen them pass the ball consistently well.

We tend to have a lot of UK based players (and have done for a number of years). When i have watched any of the UK/Ireland national team - (not often in Irelands case btw) they have all had difficulty keeping the ball, that teams on the continent dont seem to show.

The teams at the top of the league (bar Man Utd) are filled with players from overseas that keep the ball well.

Not sure what it is but I dont think Mcliesh is solely to blame.

And FWIW, bar Martinez - Lambert was my choice. Great manager.

[Big_John_10]

At the end of the day we arent that good a side, we have a small amount of good players and we have an average manager but even with Mourinho in charge we'd realistically only be a few points better off and we'd still have lost yesterday.

We may only be slightly better in terms of points at this stage with a better manager but as fans we'd certainly be more hopeful for the future.

Too many fans are just looking at it short term. We need to build a team, we need a manager who can find good deals in the transfer market. We need a manager who through their coaching can improve the players and the football.

For me there is no evidence Mcleish can do this. So while a few things might go right I haven't seen enough to give me hope that in the future Mcleish will have us competing and more entertaining.

[Woodytom]

I haven't seen enough to give me hope that in the future Mcleish will have us competing and more entertaining.

No neither have I atm but im prepared to give him more time. At least til hes allowed to spend some money, clear the deadwood etc. I think xmas time will probably be a fair time to make a sound judgement tho i dont think many (incl me tbh) will want to wait that long.

[romavillan]

mental 15 minutes, hutton belting it off walcott was the suicidal part really, although no need for the two tackles for the 2 penalties. shame we looked good in parts. the training ground routine for the first was great, bents finish was incredible (harder than his first effort).

not sure how much AM can do about snap decisions like that. he could have brought on the youngsters after the 3rd went in to have a go with fresh legs a bit sooner. bannan showed great vision a few times when he came on. we missed a chance late on.

great game, and AM sent out a good team set up well on the counter that on another day might have done the job. can't see much to beat AM with after that game to be honest!

[Dale]

We tend to have a lot of UK based players (and have done for a number of years). When i have watched any of the UK/Ireland national team - (not often in Irelands case btw) they have all had difficulty keeping the ball, that teams on the continent dont seem to show.

Swansea? Rogers made reference to British players being able to play good football (in Villa post-match), but it been a shame they weren't asked to. I thought it was a sideswipe at McLeish actually.

[Houlston]

At the end of the day we arent that good a side, we have a small amount of good players and we have an average manager but even with Mourinho in charge we'd realistically only be a few points better off and we'd still have lost yesterday.

We may only be slightly better in terms of points at this stage with a better manager but as fans we'd certainly be more hopeful for the future.

Too many fans are just looking at it short term. We need to build a team, we need a manager who can find good deals in the transfer market. We need a manager who through their coaching can improve the players and the football.

For me there is no evidence Mcleish can do this. So while a few things might go right I haven't seen enough to give me hope that in the future Mcleish will have us competing and more entertaining.

Some fair points and I agree with regards to possible further optimism with someone else and also on the entertaining football side of things but I think he can find decent players. He tried to sign Demebele when at Birmingham and how I'd love him in our midfield now. He signed some decent cb's there too and whilst he's been here we have seen Herd, Gardner and Clark being given decent runs so he's not afraid to use the younger players.

That being said I dont hold much hope for us progressing too much with him but I certainly dont think like some (not pointing at you) we'll be relegated or even scrapping around there.

[TrentVilla]

I haven't seen enough to give me hope that in the future Mcleish will have us competing and more entertaining.

No neither have I atm but im prepared to give him more time. At least til hes allowed to spend some money, clear the deadwood etc. I think xmas time will probably be a fair time to make a sound judgement tho i dont think many (incl me tbh) will want to wait that long.

Trouble is what money he has spent hasn't been spent very wisely and Hutton has actually added to the deadwood category.