Woodytom Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yeah but most of our "shots" are just aimless 30 yard attempts because McLeish doesn't like his teams to get forward and attack. Is that a genuine arguement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 im not sure comparing team shots is fair, as we dont know what percentage are taken by the strikers. surely we should be comparing just the efforts of the individuals listed? from the stats i have seen this season (EPLindex), Bents shooting accuracy fluctuates around 50 % - 60% , with a chance conversion of around 20% - 30%. This is pretty much the same for most of his career, and easily compares with strikers like rooney, RVP etc. there are a few people better of course, yakubu and Ba are both having superb seasons and are probably statistically the best strikers in the prem in terms of accuracy and conversion rate. yet, bent has consistently scored goals throughout his career, and is only behind a handful of players in the amount of goals scored over the last 5 years. he is not a 1 season wonder in terms of scoring. get him a decent amount of chances and he will score. the reason why there are a lot of players who have scored more yet have similar or even worse accuracy and conversion to Bent? because their teams actually try to attack and so create way more chances for their forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yeah but most of our "shots" are just aimless 30 yard attempts because McLeish doesn't like his teams to get forward and attack. Is that a genuine arguement?Yes. It's not a myth that McLeish is a defensive manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 im not sure comparing team shots is fair, as we dont know what percentage are taken by the strikers. surely we should be comparing just the efforts of the individuals listed? Im not necessarily saying Bent is worse than those listed. Just merely pointing out that there are teams who appear to create a similar amount of chances (albeit I only have shots as an example), yet there strikers (despite being inferior to Bent) are more succesful. Take Ba for example. newcastle have had what - 9 less shots than us this season. Is anyone questioning Pardews tactics as a reason for why Demba Ba's scored only 16 this season and not more? Is it valid to think that if Villa had had 234 shots - instead of 225, Bent would not be on 16 goals. I think so. I see your point regarding, the shots may not have fallen to Bent but we have had similar amount of shots to Newcastle who have had a fantastic season. Maybe Bent really isnt in the right place all the time as many seem to think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yeah but most of our "shots" are just aimless 30 yard attempts because McLeish doesn't like his teams to get forward and attack. Is that a genuine arguement?Yes. It's not a myth that McLeish is a defensive manager. No I mean, just to spurt out that we only take aimless shots from 30 yards - is that the best you can come up with?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yeah but most of our "shots" are just aimless 30 yard attempts because McLeish doesn't like his teams to get forward and attack. Is that a genuine arguement?Yes. It's not a myth that McLeish is a defensive manager. No I mean, just to spurt out that we only take aimless shots from 30 yards - is that the best you can come up with??What do you mean, is that the best you can come up with? I was explaining that that's the reason why we have a similar number of shots to other teams yet Bent has scored less goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yeah but most of our "shots" are just aimless 30 yard attempts because McLeish doesn't like his teams to get forward and attack. Is that a genuine arguement?Yes. It's not a myth that McLeish is a defensive manager. No I mean, just to spurt out that we only take aimless shots from 30 yards - is that the best you can come up with??What do you mean, is that the best you can come up with? I was explaining that that's the reason why we have a similar number of shots to other teams yet Bent has scored less goals. Im interested to know what your basing that on, baring in mind we are the 7th most accurate team from outside the box with 6 goals and 19th in the league of shots taken outside the box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yeah but most of our "shots" are just aimless 30 yard attempts because McLeish doesn't like his teams to get forward and attack. Is that a genuine arguement?Yes. It's not a myth that McLeish is a defensive manager. No I mean, just to spurt out that we only take aimless shots from 30 yards - is that the best you can come up with??What do you mean, is that the best you can come up with? I was explaining that that's the reason why we have a similar number of shots to other teams yet Bent has scored less goals. Im interested to know what your basing that on, baring in mind we are the 7th most accurate team from outside the box with 6 goals and 19th in the league of shots taken outside the box?Where did you get that last stat from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yeah but most of our "shots" are just aimless 30 yard attempts because McLeish doesn't like his teams to get forward and attack. Is that a genuine arguement?Yes. It's not a myth that McLeish is a defensive manager. No I mean, just to spurt out that we only take aimless shots from 30 yards - is that the best you can come up with??What do you mean, is that the best you can come up with? I was explaining that that's the reason why we have a similar number of shots to other teams yet Bent has scored less goals. Im interested to know what your basing that on, baring in mind we are the 7th most accurate team from outside the box with 6 goals and 19th in the league of shots taken outside the box?Where did you get that last stat from? Some prem league stat website eplindex web page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 If you scroll down on this page you can compare player stats with any of Premier League player. Very good feature of the Liverpool website actually. Bent has a shooting accuracy of 65.8% compared to Suarez on 41.7%, Kuyt on 43.5% and Carroll on 39.1%. Rooney 57.5% Ba 61.1% Torres 37.5% Drogba 32.4% RVP 57.1% Aguero 53.6% He has better conversion rate than Rooney and Aguero and only 0.5% worse than RVP. Ba has an amazing conversion rate of 29.6% What lets Bent down compared to these players is his mins per goal rate (which is still an impressive 198 minutes). I think if he got better service he would be right up at the top of the goal scorer charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Also just as an OT follow up to that post, Heskey has a successful cross percentage of 70% higher than Downing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Also just as an OT follow up to that post, Heskey has a successful cross percentage of 70% higher than Downing What the stats don't tell you is that most of those "crosses" were actually shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 for which player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Also just as an OT follow up to that post, Heskey has a successful cross percentage of 70% higher than Downing Yeah but how many crosses did heskey attempt, and how many did downing attempt..? your % will go down on anything if you do it more and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah but most of our "shots" are just aimless 30 yard attempts because McLeish doesn't like his teams to get forward and attack. :? Are you sure that's true Mantis? I don't recall our players constantly taking long shots. Petrov does it occasionally, but he also scored a few corkers earlier this season - so McLeish's faith in him to shoot from long range would be with reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'd like to see Gary Gardner have a few long shots. Against Wigan I'd like to see anyone have a shot before the 85th minute. In terms of Bent, he needs to up his game for the rest of the season if he is to get into the England squad ahead of Sandra Redknapp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellbydate Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Also just as an OT follow up to that post, Heskey has a successful cross percentage of 70% higher than Downing Yeah but how many crosses did heskey attempt, and how many did downing attempt..? your % will go down on anything if you do it more and more. no it won't, the statistic is just more accurate the more attempts taken. to suggest the % would go down is completely misunderstanding how a percentage works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 He has better conversion rate than Rooney and Aguero and only 0.5% worse than RVP. Ba has an amazing conversion rate of 29.6% What lets Bent down compared to these players is his mins per goal rate (which is still an impressive 198 minutes). I think if he got better service he would be right up at the top of the goal scorer charts. I agree with this, however, I think it's more down to the team that he has to work with, than McLeish's tactics (as I'm sure most people will say). None of the players supplying Bent, have had a good, consistent spell in the side. N'Zogbia has only recently started to look like the player we thought we'd bought, Albrighton seemed like he was playing with no confidence (and is still now showing the heights that he hit last season), Gabby has played well but has had a couple of injuries, Ireland has been given quite a few chances to show form but only started to play well in the last few months & Keane has helped Bent but he wont be here for long. Before we start to see the best of Bent again, I think we really need to bring in an experienced right winger in the summer & allow Zog to hit a good run of form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Also just as an OT follow up to that post, Heskey has a successful cross percentage of 70% higher than Downing Yeah but how many crosses did heskey attempt, and how many did downing attempt..? your % will go down on anything if you do it more and more. Less, but they have both sent over 22 successful crosses. Downing has sent over a **** of a lot more unsuccessful crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Call me sceptical but it might be a blessing he's injured. Now we can play a forward who can actually hold up the ball. It's no coincidence IMO that our best spell was when Bent was out before. Gabby N'Zogbia-Ireland-Albrighton Petrov-Gardner. If Mcleish has any brains that's what he should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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