dukes Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 tbf, some people wanted him to have the Jan transfer window, for me its been a no no from day one. some people thought that it would come good with a few signings and thats fair enough. at this stage though i think most people deep down feel that its just become a joke. Is it possible part of the problem is that some people were never prepared to give the manager a chance ? When a player pulls on the Villa shirt he has my full support (even Oyvind Leonhardsen), and it's the same when a manager is appointed. When fans don't get behind a manger on his appointment, perhaps it makes players like Dunne, Warnock etc feel justified when they too don't give him a chance. It's possible but for me it's the very opposite. I was one of GH's most vocal cheerleaders on here when he was appointed. Now I believe he is a cancer and needs to be operated on. I didn't say we should back him now, i was making a comment baed on MarkAVFC40's comment about never having given Houllier a chance.........which i found crazy. Actually, i'm unsure what I want or think is best regarding the manager, I like some of what he has done (better passing game, more emphasis on fitness, giving youth a chance, his transfer dealings), and admire his approach (particularly in regards to discipline). That said though, i'm not at all satisfied with recent results, and if we were in this position with more of the season still to go i'd probably be calling for his sacking. I happen to think it would worsen our position to change manager now, and think we'd be better to get behind him, finish as high as we can, and then see what can be done in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 3 Managers ? - I only count 2 - Kmac - and Foulier rs The wage bills is still an issue - and Bent is probably on more than any player last season. IMO, pre-season is an important part of the season ahead. Therefore I believe 3 managers in the course of the pre-season & season has effected the team. The wage bill is still an issue. But it must have been decreased with the amount of players that Houllier has sent out on loan and the fact that he's sold a couple (Davies/ Sidwell/ etc). Also, another point is that when Houllier was brought in.. he was given a brief and one of the points was to "utilise the strengths of the current squad" (or something like that) and I believe that this was a suggestion that the younger players could be bled through into the first team - which he has done, has been successful (on most parts) but will also effect results. GH is divorced from the first team squad, the fans, and although they won't admitt it - I can't see the directors being impressed. Okay, I personally think they will consider every aspect of this season and not just the assumption that "all of the fans and team hate him". He has taken a top six team - added £30m of his his own players - yet has won just 6 out of 26 matches Yes... and my whole post was an attempt at explaining why. My opinion is that it's not JUST his errors that have caused this. Such a decline is unprecedented in premier league history - I am not being unreasonable when I say his performance in terms of where we were - and where we are now - is on the worst managerial records - not just at villa - but of any manager. I agree. It is really, really poor. But as I've said. I don't think it's JUST his tactical errors/ pr blunders that have caused this terrible season (see my original post). There is nothing to suggest an upturn is imminent - I can't beleive that a manager who has not only failed - but been a disaster in every measurement - and anythinh he attempts, can possibly be given more time. I think it's just that some people can see what he is trying to do and understand that, maybe, he doesn't have the best players available to get us playing "continental" football right now. I'm not expert. But I can see that the players we have don't fit into the way that Houllier wants to play. Off the top of my head, I think that Ash, Downing, Makoun, Bent, Albrighton, Bannan, Walker, L Young, Clark & Delfouneso will fit nicely into a 'Houllier-Team'. But many of them are inexperienced. Other players like NRC, Petrov, Gabby, Collins, Dunne, Carew & Cuellar are not as good with the ball at their feet. It appears, to me, that Houllier wants us to play a patient game. Building up play. Gradually pushing forward, allowing the fullbacks to form an extra part of the attack. To do this you need stability in the centre. You need to have players who can thread passed forward and players who can hit that perfect final ball. We miss a spine to our team atm. Our central defenders aren't too comortable bringing it forward, our central midfielders were Sidwell, Petrov and NRC. Sidwell went missing for most games, Petrov is good at slowing our play down but he halts any rare fast attacks and appears to not be able to see most forward passes and NRC is good at defending but not as good at attacking or playing creative passes forward. Then finally our attack consists of Ashley Young who seems to overhit the majority of his passes and blast his shots into the stand, Carew who only turns up for 1 in 10 games, Heskey who appeared to find form under Houllier but still managed to miss about 5 open goals, Gabby with an abundance of pace but very little footballing talent on the ball and Bent. Our fullbacks are a crippled Luke Young, an inexperienced Kyle Walker & Cieran Clark, Habib Beye and Stephen Warnock. Warnock and Young are probably the most suitable for the way Houllier wants to play - but Young has been injured a lot and we all know what happened to Warnock. It all adds up, imo. A lot of people have said that Houllier changed too much too soon, which I agree with. But the reason that this was said, imo, is the same point I'm making now. He wants us to play a certain way, but it's a huge change and we don't have the majority of the players in place to do it. It is my beleif - that results will not upturn - and GH will not be allowed to take charge for the final home game against liverpool - even if he has not been sacked - I think he will be advised to stay away for his own safety. Leading out a relegated villa - against his much loved liverpool - well I don't think even GH is that stupid I personally think that we'll survive but it'll be close. Unless he's been sacked already, I think he'll definatly come to the Liverpool game. He'd just be inviting more stick if he didn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Back Houllier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Back Houllier .. very constructive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Unlike his managerial performance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Me too. I thought he was a good appointment at first. Had no problems with him at all until things started going downhill. When was the uphill bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 His first game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsboots Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 It should be Fran_Villa and ChrisNichollsToes as his assistant. Sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc89 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 It should be Fran_Villa and ChrisNichollsToes as his assistant. Sorted.And what about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsboots Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I'll be washing the kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Back Houllier .. very constructive The thing is though Rob next year Houllier will continue to face problems that are not of his own making and its he how copes with these problems that is important. It is how he earns his money. Every manager has to face a series of different challenges and beat them in order to be considered a good manager and so far Houllier has made a right pigs ear of it. The thing is alot of the problems Houllier has had to face are of his own making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Back Houllier .. very constructive The thing is though Rob next year Houllier will continue to face problems that are not of his own making and its he how copes with these problems that is important. It is how he earns his money. Every manager has to face a series of different challenges and beat them in order to be considered a good manager and so far Houllier has made a right pigs ear of it. The thing is alot of the problems Houllier has had to face are of his own making. I fully agree with you picicata. As soon as anyone comes forward with one tiny show of support for Houllier, others seem to think it's 'blind faith' and all that other rubbish (I'm not saying you are accusing me of that, I'm just saying..:winkold:) I agree with you that a lot of his problems are of his own making. But you can't deny that a lot of others were not his making, can you? Also, do you agree that other things have added to the situation that we're currently in? The league being a strange one this year, the fact that some of our players are clearly well-below-best (Ashley Young? One goal from open play this year!), the fact that we lost Milner and recieved a headache in Stephen Ireland, the issues with Stephen Warnock (which, like other things, is speculation - but a lot of VTers believe what MM told us and have stated that we'd rather not see him in a Villa shirt ever again) and I'm sure there are a few more things that have contributed along the way. I'm not blindly supporting Houllier. I'm barely supporting Houllier, as it is. I just don't want us to get rid of him now (because I think it'll be a shot in the foot for Villa) and I don't mind what happens in the summer. If he's booted out, fine. We'll start again and see what happens. But he's started building something and I do, kind of, want to see him given a pre-season and a summer of transfers to see what he can do. One of the main reasons for me saying this, is that he can attract some good players to us - if he has a good summer transfer window, starts the season and still seems poor... get rid, and we'll hopefully have a better squad for the next manager to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I'm not blindly supporting Houllier. I'm barely supporting Houllier, as it is. I just don't want us to get rid of him now (because I think it'll be a shot in the foot for Villa) and I don't mind what happens in the summer. If he's booted out, fine. We'll start again and see what happens. But he's started building something and I do, kind of, want to see him given a pre-season and a summer of transfers to see what he can do. One of the main reasons for me saying this, is that he can attract some good players to us - if he has a good summer transfer window, starts the season and still seems poor... get rid, and we'll hopefully have a better squad for the next manager to work with. That pretty much sums up the way i feel about Houllier. I want to support him, simply because not doing so inevitably does more harm than good. There are problems within this squad which run deeper than a manager and im not sure that sacking him would make them all magically disappear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 For us to have a united first eleven under Houllier would need him to sign another 7 players to join the 4 he has already signed. I just cannot see the players who were here before he joined wanting to stop around if he stays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-67 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 The problem is, if Villa give him the summer transfer window to get those players in and the one's he doesn't want, out, and THEN we get rid of him, we have the same problem with the new Manager wanting to get rid of the players that HE didn't bring in. An ongoing cycle and no one wins. Just wastes money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOne Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Houllier Supporters = :bonk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 OK, Here's my take on events. Houllier has in my opinion been very naive (for a man of his experience). As said in previous posts he has tried to completely change the fabric of the way the team plays from the "English kick and run" MoN style, to a technical slow building European style. Problem being our players are not equipped to play that way. This takes time, whereas Houllier has tried to just fit square pegs into round holes so they can immediately adopt his style. He should of gradually introduced his style to the squad as he brought in the players who could adopt it, not make players like NRC pretend they are Jack Wilshere or Xavi. I personally want Houllier out, I didn't feel he was the right appointment in the first place. However (providing we stay up) I am willing to give him until Christmas before I jump on the bandwagon of negative chants etc. Give him a full pre-season and the summer to bring in players more suited to his style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 The problem is, if Villa give him the summer transfer window to get those players in and the one's he doesn't want, out, and THEN we get rid of him, we have the same problem with the new Manager wanting to get rid of the players that HE didn't bring in. An ongoing cycle and no one wins. Just wastes money. Unless we bring in a decent manager who doesn't need to bring in his own team as well in order to do his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 OK, Here's my take on events. Houllier has in my opinion been very naive (for a man of his experience). As said in previous posts he has tried to completely change the fabric of the way the team plays from the "English kick and run" MoN style, to a technical slow building European style. Problem being our players are not equipped to play that way. This takes time, whereas Houllier has tried to just fit square pegs into round holes so they can immediately adopt his style. He should have gradually introduced his style to the squad as he brought in the players who could adopt it, not make players like NRC pretend they are Jack Wilshere or Xavi. I personally want Houllier out, I didn't feel he was the right appointment in the first place. However (providing we stay up) I am willing to give him until Christmas before I jump on the bandwagon of negative chants etc. Give him a full pre-season and the summer to bring in players more suited to his style of play.Good post but I found the bolded very suspect. :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-67 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 The problem is, if Villa give him the summer transfer window to get those players in and the one's he doesn't want, out, and THEN we get rid of him, we have the same problem with the new Manager wanting to get rid of the players that HE didn't bring in. An ongoing cycle and no one wins. Just wastes money. Unless we bring in a decent manager who doesn't need to bring in his own team as well in order to do his job. Very true Ajax, I hope you're right and I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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