privateer Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Just watching Gaddafi's speech ATM and I can't decide if he has totally lost the plot or if the live translation is really bad. EDIT. I've decided. No matter how bad the translation it obvious he's raving mad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Just watching Gaddafi's speech ATM and I can't decide if he has totally lost the plot or if the live translation is really bad. EDIT. I've decided. No matter how bad the translation it obvious he's raving mad! Don't know about lost the plot, but he seems to be promising a show of extreme violence to try to crush opposition. Summary here. 4.22pm: I haven't even started giving the orders to use bullets, he says. 4.19pm: Putting a different pair of glasses on, he reads from a book on law: "Any Libyan who lifts an arm shall be punished with the death sentence. Those who spy for other countries shall be punished with the death sentence. Anybody who undermines the sovereignty of the state" – same punishment. Those who commit crimes against the army, anyone working for a foreign country undermining the defence of the country – same punishment. "We will not blame the youth," he says, but adds: when they are caught and prosecuted they will be begging for mercy but this time we will not be so merciful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Europe needs to shake the shit out of its craven shoes and start bombing this lunatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendelc Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Europe needs to shake the shit out of its craven shoes and start bombing this lunatic. Yep . Take the **** out . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlitobrigante Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 wow, cant believe Gaddafi looks like he will be toppled too. i thought he had an iron grip over his people, a kind of African North Korea. Whats encouraging is that despite the deaths the revoloution seems to have the upper hand. The fact Gaddafi is calling in foreign mercs is a sign he is on his last legs. It shows he has lost control of large sections of the armed forces. The fact even Libyan airline managers are resigning shows he has very little support. Ive no doubt it will end in a blood bath, hopefully with Gaddafi and his son strung up in green square like Mussolini. very scared what comes next. Such movements are easily hijacked by worse people that the ones you are outing. The fact this is regionwide means it is different, i i hope countries who pull it off offer massive support to the ones having problems. It seems its not all quiet in Cairo either. Massive moment of history this, will at the very least decide ours and Amercias foreign policy for the next 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2011 Sorry but I still say, this is a matter for Libya and its people. We've made far far far too many interventions and it's one of the main reason for the rise of the muslim fundamentalist terrorist groups. Doing it again won't help. More people will probably die if we bomb the shit out of the country than if we leave it to its own devices. USA tried to bomb the lunatic before, didn't actually work. Libya and all the other Arab countries in turmoil will and should have to sort their own problems out. The only help we should give is humanitarian aid if required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2011 I'm beginning to wonder whether my tin of beans will ever get the chance to expire in 2013 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2011 Gaddafi doesn't want Libya to fall into the hands of crazy people... it's a little bit late for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2011 Libya suspended immediately from the Arab League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Libya suspended immediately from the Arab LeagueThey were heading for relegation anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Libya suspended immediately from the Arab LeagueThey were heading for relegation anyway Libya has gone into administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Sorry but I still say, this is a matter for Libya and its people. We've made far far far too many interventions and it's one of the main reason for the rise of the muslim fundamentalist terrorist groups. Doing it again won't help. More people will probably die if we bomb the shit out of the country than if we leave it to its own devices. USA tried to bomb the lunatic before, didn't actually work. Libya and all the other Arab countries in turmoil will and should have to sort their own problems out. The only help we should give is humanitarian aid if required. I would make a big distinction between long-term interventions aimed at gaining control of their natural resources, and short-term intervention to prevent mass murder. The first is deeply unwelcome to the people of the countries involved, the second is needed now. Latest reports are that Libyan ships are shelling Benghazi. What is the difference between this and Srebrenica? Of all the possible reasons for spending billions each year on military power, being able to intervene quickly and effectively in situations like this is surely the most defensible. Our history looks too much like intervening in our self-interest, but standing around playing for time uttering sympathetic but hypocritical noises when speedy intervention is called for. Yes, it's hard to draw the line. Why intervene here, now, and not other places where corrupt rulers are killing people on a larger scale without attracting the same media interest? My answer is that the failure of international diplomacy in other situations doesn't make it right to sit out every new instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2011 So he has taken reps from 6 British arms companies with him :shock: So what's the problem? They're going to be a democracy anyway - touch wood - so would you rather they bought their weapons from other countries or keep British workers employed? Do you think UK suspended arms sales under Labour or is this just a poor attempt at political points scoring? On another note Gaddafi seems to have turned (French made :winkold:) fixed wing fighter bombers on protesters in Tripoli. Despite the "we shouldn't get involved" comments I reckon we should now be flying a combat air patrol over the city and engaging Libyan military aircraft. It's not on for Europe to allow this kind of shit to happen on its own doorstep. Gaddafi is toast now and he's trying to kill as many as possible before he gets what's coming to him. Time to pick a side. Wasn't Cameron's (and the other folks) visit long planned - i.e. not an "opportunist" visit on the back of a revolution? That said, presumably he was going to visit Mubarak, originally. I guess all the arms people were going along, partly because the Gov't wants an export led recovery, and seeing as they are decimating our defence industry and armed forces at home, they'd want to encourage sales abroad. Personally I profoundly disagree with this policy, if indeed that's what it is. What we ought to do is equip our forces properly, for defence purposes, and I guess for whatever role the UK gov't deems they are needed, and we should keep out of the business of arming other nations, other than long established aliies. And under no circs should we be sending the RAF to bomb the crap out of Egyptian bases or whatever. They would not "welcome" us, and I wouldn't blame them. Libya too, we should not be attacking their soil. The UN, which is admittedly sclerotic may need to intervene, for humanitarian purposes, but only under their auspices should, maybe, UK forces be involved, and even then, seing as they are so overstretched, I rather think we should leave it alone, militarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2011 "I will cleanse Libya house by house" This man is a **** nutcase. "I will die a martyr at the end'' Martyr's tend to have a cause, I'm not sure that it's possible to martyr yourself to your own self interest. It can't be easy living in this region at the moment - it's going to take years to sort out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Wasn't Cameron's (and the other folks) visit long planned - i.e. not an "opportunist" visit on the back of a revolution? That said, presumably he was going to visit Mubarak, originally. Cairo wasn't part of the scheduled trip. Amid fears in Downing Street that a traditional trade visit would have looked out of place, as protests sweep across the Arab world, the PM hastily added a six-hour stopover in Cairo, including a walkabout in Tahrir Square. (From here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I would make a big distinction between long-term interventions aimed at gaining control of their natural resources, and short-term intervention to prevent mass murder. The first is deeply unwelcome to the people of the countries involved, the second is needed now. Latest reports are that Libyan ships are shelling Benghazi. What is the difference between this and Srebrenica? Of all the possible reasons for spending billions each year on military power, being able to intervene quickly and effectively in situations like this is surely the most defensible. Our history looks too much like intervening in our self-interest, but standing around playing for time uttering sympathetic but hypocritical noises when speedy intervention is called for. Yes, it's hard to draw the line. Why intervene here, now, and not other places where corrupt rulers are killing people on a larger scale without attracting the same media interest? My answer is that the failure of international diplomacy in other situations doesn't make it right to sit out every new instance. Well said Peter, although I'd add that there are many examples of Britain taking up arms to defend principles rather than national self interest - it is one of the things that makes me deeply proud of my country. 500,000 died in Bosnia because Europe dithered and if we have the power to prevent a repetition of such events then we bloody well should. It's nothing less than our moral duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2011 Our history looks too much like intervening in our self-interest, but standing around playing for time uttering sympathetic but hypocritical noises when speedy intervention is called for. If anyone has any other nails they need hitting right on the head, please PM peterms in the usual way. I wonder if Mssrs. Obama and Cameron are waiting for the forecast sheets to come back from the bank to see if they can afford to help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Time to take Gadafi out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2011 An eyewitness on the beeb is claiming that Gadaffi's troops went into a hospital, rounded up the wounded and killed them. Horrible if true. I get the feeling the country must be full of Chinese whispers and horror stories at the moment, it must be terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Just nuke the whole Middle East and turn the sand to glass . It will make the search for oil a lot easier too . (VIZ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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