Awol Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Rumours in Cairo that Mubarak is stepping down tonight and military taking over to manage transition to democratic elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 So for once the US should really stay the **** away. For once? I would hope that the majority of the time it's preferable to not have one state meddling in another state's affairs as it usually ends **** up. Of course it's preferable for non-intervention. But culturally, US foreign policy is very big in Washington. Perhaps if the history textbooks in US public schools stopped glorifying their wartime presidents, there might be a change in the zeitgeist. To be fair it's already happening with the Tea Party Movement, and Ron Paul's campaign for liberty. What :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Rumours in Cairo that Mubarak is stepping down tonight and military taking over to manage transition to democratic elections. All news sources: Mubarak Statement Shortly / any moment now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Doesn't sound like his address has been well received by the people in Tahrir Sq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 10, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just watching that speech and the reaction to it, you get a real feeling that tonight is going to be a really difficult night in Cairo, watching it I got a growing feeling of dread. You wonder whether Mubarak would really feel that his speech was conciliatory in nature - he offered the smallest comforts in a speech that most of those watching seemed to feel would be his resignation. It'll be unpleasant I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 10, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2011 The vice president is making a speech about doors being open for dialogue - the people on the other hand would seem to be about done with talking. He's suggested that those with an agenda for violence are influenced by foreign media and has labelled them terrorists - he's also suggested that they should go home and go back to work. I can't help but feel he's misjudged the mood. There will be blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Last weekend after the president's crackdown, one of the beeb correspondents ended with the line "they're just beginning to learn how to hate each other". From a united opposition will emerge a fractured movement, increasing the likelihood of 'unsuitable' characters to again gain power. The delays and the half offers will continue to create division, the confusing messages from other govts also. The longer the delay the less likely democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 10, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2011 His speech was almost a pat on the head. I've a feeling the delay might be short and bloody. The BBC reporter has just suggested that it's hard to imagine a speech he could have made that could have been more provocative. Who knows what will come out of that chaos - I wouldn't be overly surprised if the next leader of Egypt is wearing a uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 10, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2011 Rumours in Cairo that Mubarak is stepping down tonight and military taking over to manage transition to democratic elections. Whether he likes it or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 They're going for 20 million on the streets tomorrow apparently. I've got a guy in Cairo who should have started a role in Oman last week and for obvious reasons he's stayed behind to see this through and we're keeping in touch via text. He was almost euphoric earlier when they all thought he was going, but after that narcissistic nonesense of a speech I think OBE has it right. Peaceful protest hasn't worked and this could/probably will get fugly now. By trying to convince him to stay, Washington/Tel Aviv/Riyadh are doing more to create the kind of crisis they feared than if they'd just kept their noses out. There has also been some bizarre stuff happening where I am that I can't post on the main forum, but if any of the bollitics fans want to know drop me a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted February 10, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted February 10, 2011 Apparently back in early January STRATFOR basically told their clients interested in Egyptian affairs that the military would oust Mubarak by May and to plan their business dealings accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Suleiman: Mubarak stepping down; Military Higher Council now in power; may god help everybody. Am I misreading that last bit as rather ominous or is it just a lost in translation 'god bless'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted February 11, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted February 11, 2011 \m/ \m/ Heavy Metal and the Egyptian Revolution \m/ \m/ Later, on the patio, I sat across from Sameh Sabry. He called himself Slacker, and he is the scene’s unofficial archivist. We were worn out, wrung dry, stupid with dehydration. Still, Slacker arranged himself with élan on the plastic patio chair. He spoke like a philosopher steeped in both Socrates and Scorpions. “Basically,” said he, “any society is made on human power. And for me, I consider this as emotional music — with emotional words, painful words. It touches my soul. Why don’t I like rap? It only mentions the girls he slept with or the car he drives. The music I listen to has so many meanings. It changes my life. “My question to you is: Would you stop listening to the music you loved if someone was going to throw you in jail for it? If the answer is yes, then you don’t love the music enough. I have been charged for Satanism; I have been called a devil worshipper. Many times. My name has been in print — with my age, my school — I was waiting for them to come for me. I did not change. I did not hide. You want a piece of me — come get it. Others are into it for fashion — but I really believe. For me, I think the music we do is preaching community. There’s this community — and it’s powerful.” Slacker leaned back in his chair and moaned at the sky. “I love the American spirit — because it encourages you to be a hero. They make you feel big even when you are doing something small. And the reason why I love America is that I see the differences and I like the differences.” This from a man who has in no small part sacrificed his health for metal, or at least staked his well-being far beyond the bounds of acceptable risk. He told me that he had a heart condition, that he collapsed regularly from the stress. “It is crazy to live in this Middle East. The humiliation from Israel. The humiliation from America, even though I love the spirit. The humiliation from crazy governments. The crazy people. The crazy traffic, the noise, the pollution. We are the damned, man. Sometimes I don’t know how long I can last. I fight for my life, buddy. I should give this up. But I can’t.” We sat in silence, listening to the El Bodega shake from the rage of the music within, fluorescent lights flickering under a dirty Cairo night sky. “It is the same here in Egypt as it is everywhere, is it not,” asked Slacker. “A gathering of friends who love a small piece of culture beyond anything else. Here are young Egyptians and Saudis trying to find their identity. Through this, we assert some kind of difference from the crowd. This is the way of the Western childhood since the fifties, no? It can’t be a bad thing. After all, where would all this aggression otherwise go?” Karim lumbered up to us, soaked in his own sweat and that of his ecstatic patrons. He clamped a hand on my shoulder. “Tell your friends back home,” he said. “We dream here. We do dream. And look what can happen.” Semi-related: there was a great Bloody Roots show on Liquid Metal on the metal scene in Egypt... there are some pretty good bands over there, I gotta say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Cynic in me thinks the US will **** things up again. Maybe not though, say what you will about the current Democrat administration but at least they seem to have cut down on the poke-into-people's-business in comparison to previous governments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted February 13, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted February 13, 2011 Maybe not though, say what you will about the current Democrat administration but at least they seem to have cut down on the poke-into-people's-business in comparison to previous governments. They just do a better job of keeping it below decks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Maybe not though, say what you will about the current Democrat administration but at least they seem to have cut down on the poke-into-people's-business in comparison to previous governments. They just do a better job of keeping it below decks... Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 By the way Levi a bit OT but are you Democrat? Republican (not a chance )? Neither? Can't be bothered? Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted February 13, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted February 13, 2011 Some from column A, some from column B, some from column C and some from column D. My voter registration is as a Libertarian, though that's as much for the fact that it allows me to neatly sidestep electioneering in the primaries (which often enough in Massachusetts are the final election; as one with a registration in another party, I can just say, "I couldn't legally vote for any of you, STFU"). I guess I'd describe myself as a market liberal, partly because the libertarian brand is rather toxic and in its many and varied factions includes ones that are **** bonkers (some of the Paul hangers-on, for instance) and partly in an effort to reclaim the term "liberal" without connoting looking backwards. Cato (part of the Kochtopus)"] Today, those who subscribe to the principles of the American Revolution — individual liberty, limited government, the free market, and the rule of law — call themselves by a variety of terms, including conservative, libertarian, classical liberal, and liberal. We see problems with all of those terms. "Conservative" smacks of an unwillingness to change, of a desire to preserve the status quo. Only in America do people seem to refer to free-market capitalism — the most progressive, dynamic, and ever-changing system the world has ever known — as conservative. Additionally, many contemporary American conservatives favor state intervention in some areas, most notably in trade and into our private lives. "Classical liberal" is a bit closer to the mark, but the word "classical" fails to capture the contemporary vibrancy of the ideas of freedom. "Liberal" may well be the perfect word in most of the world — the liberals in societies from China to Iran to South Africa to Argentina tend to be supporters of human rights and free markets — but its meaning has clearly been altered in the contemporary United States. The Jeffersonian philosophy that animates Cato's work has increasingly come to be called "libertarianism" or "market liberalism." It combines an appreciation for entrepreneurship, the market process, and lower taxes with strict respect for civil liberties and skepticism about the benefits of both the welfare state and foreign military adventurism. (as far as the difference between market liberalism and social liberalism, both wings of the liberal movement generally have the same goal (I'd phrase it along the lines of "the destruction of privilege in all its forms"); the difference is in terms of what is perceived as being the greater cause of privilege (the state vs. wealth)) ((in terms of Team Red vs. Team Blue... I support whoever's not in power and if it's divided government, then "a pox on both their houses" is the order of the day)) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 As though Mubarak didn't have enough problems, he's now got Big Bad Vince on his case. Britain's business minister, Vince Cable, called for international action to track down the Mubarak family's assets around the world. "I was not aware that he had enormous assets here, but there clearly needs to be a concerted international action on this," Cable said. I expect Vince will simply instruct the bankers to seize all the assets in question. Vince has an unambiguous relationship with the bankers. One word from him, and they do what they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 The Egyptians have traded one 80yo military dictator for a council of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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