The Arab Spring and "the War on Terror"

[Awol]

Afghan government has gone, negotiated hand over to the Taliban. 

Egg all over the face of western analysts regarding the speed and scale of the collapse. 

Will be interesting to see how this is explained away as a solely domestic Insurgency overcoming a state authority - with all the massive advantages the latter possesses. 

Game, set and match to Pakistan. 
 

 

[Awol]

And in case anyone is in the Taliban as a nationalist resistance camp: 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Awol

[Davkaus]

Twenty years well spent, eh. 

[Rugeley Villa]

9 minutes ago, Awol said:

And in case anyone is in the Taliban as a nationalist resistance camp: 

 

I read up a bit on the Taliban a few years back and watched some documentaries. I still had them down as terrorist organisation , but I did feel they were more nationalists  and didn’t associate them with a global agenda like Al Queda , Muslim Brotherhood , ISIS . 

[Awol]

Just now, Rugeley Villa said:

I read up a bit on the Taliban a few years back and watched some documentaries. I still had them down as terrorist organisation , but I did feel they were more nationalists  and didn’t associate them with a global agenda like Al Queda , Muslim Brotherhood , ISIS . 

The Taliban is against ISIS, has fought them in Afghan and will wipe them out now. Not because they disagree particularly with their agenda (it’s the same as AQ and differs only in ways not ends) but because ISIS is a splinter group of and rival to AQ - which the Taliban is firmly wedded to. 

[Rugeley Villa]

Just now, Awol said:

The Taliban is against ISIS, has fought them in Afghan and will wipe them out now. Not because they disagree particularly with their agenda (it’s the same as AQ and differs only in ways not ends) but because ISIS is a splinter group of and rival to AQ - which the Taliban is firmly wedded to. 

The Taliban and AQ also viewed Isis as too extreme which I kind of find ironic . Is it delusional to think one day the world could be under Islamic law or would the world destroy itself before that happened . 

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Is it delusional to think one day the world could be under Islamic law or would the world destroy itself before that happened . 

I would suggest that that type of groundless worrying is part of why we've spent 20 years on this pointless failure in the first place. It was sold to the public as a civilisational struggle to match the Cold War; it isn't.

[Davkaus]

There's a separate thread for it, so I don't want to take things too far off topic, but imagine how much progress we might have made if we'd considered climate change as much an existential threat for the 20 years as the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, and invested a fraction of the funds.

[Xela]

16 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Is it delusional to think one day the world could be under Islamic law or would the world destroy itself before that happened . 

I wouldn't worry. China, Russia, USA, et al, wouldn't allow that. 

 

[Genie]

Probably deserving of its own thread I think.

20 years of war, over a trillion dollars spent by the US alone, thousands of soldiers dead, many, many more civilians dead and the result:

Quote

Afghanistan on the brink of Taliban takeover

Peaceful transfer of power to transitional government being prepared, acting interior minister says

The Taliban orders its fighters to refrain from violence and allow safe passage for anyone wanting to leave

It says members of the Afghan security forces will be allowed to return to their homes

Eyewitnesses say the militants met little resistance along the way to the capital

The Taliban captures more territory, including the former US airbase at Bagram and the central Bamiyan province

UK PM Boris Johnson is to recall Parliament from its summer break on Wednesday to discuss the crisis

About 600 British troops are being deployed to help the departure of UK nationals and others.

US begins evacuating staff from its embassy in Kabul

BBC

[blandy]

 

[Rugeley Villa]

 

16 minutes ago, Xela said:

I wouldn't worry. China, Russia, USA, et al, wouldn't allow that. 

 

Yeah that’s what I was thinking 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Rugeley Villa

[sne]

 

[desensitized43]

Stunning to think the amount of time and resources spent in that country and we’re effectively back to square one within hours of withdrawal.

When we went in I was just starting year 8 at secondary school and now at 32 years old this. Madness.

I think when we went in there was obviously justification to “get” bin laden and AQ to make them pay for attacks against the west that eventually led to 9/11. I think we had no choice but to remove the taliban after they refused to hand over a dangerous criminal and stop supporting his organisation.

Once all that was done, from that position of strength we needed to negotiate with these people to ensure they could come back but with clear guarantees etc that they wouldn’t be used as a launch pad for western attacks.

What’s clear from all of this is that actually the taliban have a lot of support in that country and thus had to be part of the solution just as sin fein did in NI. Failure to do that entrenched the belief that we were propping up a puppet government with minority support that would always fail when we left.

I feel for the moderate afghans and women that will suffer for this but ultimately you can’t enforce a western ideals of democracy, education, rights for women on a country where the majority don’t support them.

[Genie]

Is it not better to discuss Afghanistan in its own topic, especially as it’s not an Arab country?

 

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

Stunning to think the amount of time and resources spent in that country and we’re effectively back to square one within hours of withdrawal.

Probably worse than square one, as even more people hate the West now than before.

[PussEKatt]

So,terrorism has a new base ?!

[sne]

4 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

So,terrorism has a new base ?!

 

[desensitized43]

13 minutes ago, Genie said:

Probably worse than square one, as even more people hate the West now than before.

In some ways yes and in others not. AQ is a shadow of what it once was and I’m not sure they’re in a position to execute another 9/11 (yet).

certainly now we’re going to be seeing the fall out of what we've left behind. Executions of people seen as collaborators we didn’t evacuate and a **** tonne of equipment we’ve lazily left behind in the hands of the taliban.

[bannedfromHandV]

Don’t worry, the UK is calling parliament back next week, that’ll sort it all out.