KHV Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 8 hours ago, Zatman said: Jack is only 20 and people are easy to forget that, he is just a kid and its sad all the pressure people are putting on him. I said it before but if he didnt come from Birmingham or the Villa academy he would be let away with things because of his age Delle Alli, John Stones, Raheem Sterling,Hector Bellerin,Emre Can, Luke Shaw are all examples of U-21 players who play well. Jack is just lazy and cant be bothered 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, DK82 said: He is 20. Sell him and he will do an Albrighton. He is young and naive. That is all. Yes, personally I would sell him IF we could find a buyer Additionally, I wouldn't be paying Albrighton £45k a week to still be here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted January 21, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 21, 2016 I am completely on board with thinking that jack has been crap this season. But I also think you'd be absolutely bat shit crazy to sell him at this point. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 21 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I am completely on board with thinking that jack has been crap this season. But I also think you'd be absolutely bat shit crazy to sell him at this point. You could well be right but I don't ever see him being an integral part of the team. That's just my view. I'll be very surprised if he ever establishes himself as a PL regular anywhere. If he were for sale I doubt we'd be inundated with (sensible) offers. lets hope I'm wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) That's one of the reasons we'd be mental to sell him now, even if he will never be a premier league player (which I don't personally believe) Edited January 21, 2016 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 1 hour ago, VillaCas said: Yeah he did but you're now looking back through a lens of an unfulfilled career. At the time Moore was bracketed with Rooney as the next big thing Moore was never bracketed as being the next big thing alongside Rooney at least not seriously, or by anyone who knew what they were talking about. The only young player in the UK who was considered anywhere near Rooney's level at the time was Milner at Leeds. Moore was highly rated and had potential but not to the same extent as Grealish on both counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, useless said: Moore was never bracketed as being the next big thing alongside Rooney at least not seriously, or by anyone who knew what they were talking about. The only young player in the UK who was considered anywhere near Rooney's level at the time was Milner at Leeds. Moore was highly rated and had potential but not to the same extent as Grealish on both counts. Moore, I think, had achieved much more than Grealish by the same age. I thought Grealish had enormous potential, I am not quite so sure now, but with Grealish I think quite a lot of it is to do with perception - the hair, rolled down socks, nonchalant style - appearance and the perception of that appearance can be very important. In other words - `he has the look'. I am beginning to think loaning him out may be best, to try to get him back on track. He needs a shock to the system, and to be able to build his confidence again, if indeed confidence is his problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Moore never looked as good for us as Grealish did last season. I definitely wouldn't loan him out, if he can sort his mindset out and play at his best then we'll need him at the club this year, as he'd be one of our best players. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 1 hour ago, useless said: Moore never looked as good for us as Grealish did last season. I definitely wouldn't loan him out, if he can sort his mindset out and play at his best then we'll need him at the club this year, as he'd be one of our best players. It's a pointless debate but by this stage of his career Moore had already scored a PL hat-trick - he looked like he was going to be a worldbeater. Moore was expected to go on to a glittering PL and International career. If you want to believe that Grealish is a better prospect, it makes little difference. If Grealish is indeed a better prospect then it is all the more galling that so much ability is being wasted Football is littered with promising teenagers who never fulfil their potential. Grealish, and those surrounding him, need to take a massive hard look at themselves and decide whether all the critics are right or whether they are happy with the direction his career is headed. Lambert clearly had come to the end of the road at VP but in my opinion he would have been a much better influence to slowly bring Grealish on than Sherwood was. Sherwood was already telling him he was worth £60m before he'd even scored a PL goal - the whole thing has gone to his head and his career has suffered as a result He clearly has talent but so far it has failed to produce any noticeable result or impact on the pitch. Even his biggest supporters acknowledge that he does little defensively, so he needs to make a huge contribution going forward. A single goal and a single assist in 27 appearances is just not enough return 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2016 3 hours ago, VillaCas said: Yeah he did but you're now looking back through a lens of an unfulfilled career. At the time Moore was bracketed with Rooney as the next big thing Maybe in here he was, by some. Moore was never regarded in the same stratosphere as Rooney anywhere else inside the game. I remember the youth cup final of 01/02 was billed as a good overall Villa team versus Wayne Rooney FC. We comfortably won the cup, and to show for it Villa ended up with the 2 Moores, Ridgewell, Davis and Whittingham. Everton 'only' got Rooney from their side. I watched that Rooney documentary there recently and plenty of clubs were well aware of his talent as he breezed through Everton's junior ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 If you look at those stats in isolation it makes Grealish look pretty inaffective but it should be obvious to anyone who saw him last season what a good player he can be and what an affect he had on the team, he was the youngest and new to the fold but he stood out so much compared to the others. I don't know if it's true or not but John Percy, who has a reputation as being reliable, reported that Chelsea and Man City were interesting in signing him. It certainly wouldn't have surprised me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2016 Moore might have got a hatrick but he was a striker playing in a better performing team, Grealish is a creator in a team which has done little to be deserving of being called a team for a long time, perhaps only the last few games. There's a player in there, but he clearly needs sort his head out a bit and quickly before it all goes a bit pear shaped. Maybe a year of Championship football will be good for him, lots of games, less time to think about then inbetween, and a lower standard of fullback/defending to have a go at and hone some skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 17 minutes ago, BOF said: Maybe in here he was, by some. Moore was never regarded in the same stratosphere as Rooney anywhere else inside the game. I remember the youth cup final of 01/02 was billed as a good overall Villa team versus Wayne Rooney FC. We comfortably won the cup, and to show for it Villa ended up with the 2 Moores, Ridgewell, Davis and Whittingham. Everton 'only' got Rooney from their side. I watched that Rooney documentary there recently and plenty of clubs were well aware of his talent as he breezed through Everton's junior ranks. You're right. I'm not disputing that Rooney was the most highly rated youngster ever I think, but the Moore's were thought to be massive prospects also. The 2002 Final was billed in the papers as Rooney v the Moore brothers. My comment was in response to someone saying that Grealish's potential was unheralded at VP. Cowans was a huge prospect, Noel Blake was a huge prospect, Gabby was a massive prospect, the Moore brothers were massive prospects. I suspect that most of those with the view that Grealish is such an exceptional talent are either 1) mis-remembering 2) were not around as these players came through or 3) looking back at unfulfilled potential of most of those (not Cowans) having seen how their careers did not live up to the potential that they once showed Someone earlier put up a funny face and "Luke Moore, now that's funny" - it is now, it certainly wasn't when he looked like he would be a top class international CF for the next 15 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I can remember one of the youth coaches comparing Moore to Henry and Osbourne to Vieira, Gary Gardner got compared to Gerrard as well. Doesn't mean anything though (well at least not in terms of how their careers will turn out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, VillaCas said: You're right. I'm not disputing that Rooney was the most highly rated youngster ever I think, but the Moore's were thought to be massive prospects also. The 2002 Final was billed in the papers as Rooney v the Moore brothers. My comment was in response to someone saying that Grealish's potential was unheralded at VP. Cowans was a huge prospect, Noel Blake was a huge prospect, Gabby was a massive prospect, the Moore brothers were massive prospects. I suspect that most of those with the view that Grealish is such an exceptional talent are either 1) mis-remembering 2) were not around as these players came through or 3) looking back at unfulfilled potential of most of those (not Cowans) having seen how their careers did not live up to the potential that they once showed Someone earlier put up a funny face and "Luke Moore, now that's funny" - it is now, it certainly wasn't when he looked like he would be a top class international CF for the next 15 years I agree with that. Luke was definitely a prospect at Villa, and sadly flattered to deceive. It was only the Rooney comparison that I thought needed further discussion/clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 17 minutes ago, useless said: If you look at those stats in isolation it makes Grealish look pretty inaffective but it should be obvious to anyone who saw him last season what a good player he can be and what an affect he had on the team, he was the youngest and new to the fold but he stood out so much compared to the others. I don't know if it's true or not but John Percy, who has a reputation as being reliable, reported that Chelsea and Man City were interesting in signing him. It certainly wouldn't have surprised me. This is the (original) Moneyball debate in a nutshell. Who is the better player? One who is not flashy but scores goals and provides opportunities for others or one with a flash haircut and half-mast socks who can drift past two or three players in midfield and then lay the ball off in a non-threatening situation. Grealish is nothing more than potential, there might be a player in there but it's far from certain 29 games, 1 goal, 1 assist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, useless said: I can remember one of the youth coaches comparing Moore to Henry and Osbourne to Vieira, Gary Gardner got compared to Gerrard as well. Doesn't mean anything though (well at least not in terms of how their careers will turn out). You're right. It's a stark reminder to Grealish of how things can go very wrong very quickly I used to see Osbourne in the Monday morning shuttle to Edinburgh (he was playing warming the bench for Hibs) - funny to remember that once he was was thought to have such potential that he was going to be a fixture in our PL midfield for years to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 12 hours ago, Zatman said: Jack is only 20 and people are easy to forget that, he is just a kid and its sad all the pressure people are putting on him. I said it before but if he didnt come from Birmingham or the Villa academy he would be let away with things because of his age I actually think it's the other way round - people are generally more lenient because he's a local lad. Compare this thread, relatively, to... maybe the Carles Gil one. He's also a young player (just under 3 years older than Grealish) who has been uprooted from his native country to try and make it in the Premier League. Having checked, a recent comment from yourself on that thread is "Gil is overrated, lightweight and brainless". Young player, not local hero though. Not afforded the same grace. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Moore hardly scored goals and has had a pretty poor record in that regard throughout his career so far, I'm not sure about assists but I imagine it's pretty similar. Grealish plays in a different position and came into a struggling team struggling in the final third of the pitch, as I say those stats (29 games etc) don't tell the whole story. Plus I'm not sure what Grealish's hair or socks have to do with anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIVillan Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 The Moore Borothers were mentioned by Fergie as the most exciting propects in the country. As for Grealish being only 20. Someone who is 55 had won a League Championship and and European Cup about the same age - Gary Shaw. Also was the European Young player of the Season 81-82. Cowans was established in a Good Villa Team by that age. Tony Daley, Mark Walters even Paul Birth were more established than Grealish is now. The thing that differs from Grealish to those above is work Ethic. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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