OxfordVillan Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 14 hours ago, nick76 said: Yeah because we havent been loyal to him at all. Always hate this BS that "loyalty" or "wouldn't begrudge him a move"......just BS. He's a Villa player, we pay him well, we've been just as loyal to him for 20 years building him (and yes he may have got that elsewhere as well but it was us) and as soon as he shows his ability in the PL (one season) we lose him....nope! sorry that is BS. If we get relegated then fine but if we stay up, I'd make it too hard for him to leave and honour the contract and play for his boyhood club. I hate the "earned a move to a bigger club" BS.....dont you want Villa to be better, that we build a team around him and we get better. If every time a player comes along with talent that we sell them........NO! I dont want to have to hope that average players become good from our academy like Bannan, Davis, Moore brothers, Delfouneso, Fabio Ferraresi etc etc and they never come good. We have one that has come good (great!) and now at really the start of his senior career at 24 years old, we let him go. We have rich owners, we have a great player, we hopefully be in the PL, let's build around him.....let the boyhood Villa fan become the Villa legend and get back to the higher end of the table and enjoy success at the Villa.....I dont want to lose him to so called big club where he'll get lost and be a player amongst players and yes will thrive but I want him to thrive at Villa. He has a contract, he's been loyal, we have been loyal....let's tell other clubs to bugger off! Agreed. But two things must happen for Grealish not to be tempted away; (1) Villa must remain a Premier League club. (2) If (1) is achieved then Investment must be made in the next transfer window to bring in 2-3 very good players to compliment Grealish in the 1st team, that would likely cost £150-200m for 3 very good players. Next season we would have to be at the level that Wolves are currently at to justify players at the level of Grealish remaining at the club, we would have to become a fixture in the top 7 or 8 clubs IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, nick76 said: 1) He didnt stay with us for three seasons in the Championship, he grew up with us in the Championship. Spurs we interested later in that period but wanted to pay pittance for him in a typical Levy way but I dont remember any other serious interest in him. Additionally he wasnt at the level he was last season or this season so it's not like he has been at the level he has been for 4 years. His talent has grown to the player he is today. Remember those years ago while he was a bit of a talent he was a bit a of problem as well from the nitrous oxide incident, clubbing after major defeats (i think when we lost to Everton) and then being collapsed drunk abroad on the street. Yeah you can argue typical young rich behaviour but you cant "hint" that he has been the talent, carrying us, through the three years in the championship. 2) "No matter how good one player is and Grealish is amazing, I think he might’ve taken us as far as he can" or just the players around him arent, on the whole, good enough. I dont understand how you can say he has taken us as far as he can but if he goes to a bigger team he can take them further?!?! So instead of improving the around him making us better, you are suggesting sell him to what? bring in lesser players? How does that make sense? We dont need the money and given inflated prices today it would be hard to re-invest money and get value for money. Unless somebody gave us 150m for him then maybe we can get quality in but if we got 75m then look at the rubbish that has been brought at other clubs. Fornals 25m, Ndombele 55m, Pepe 72m, Joelinton 40m, Iwobi 28m, Haller 35m and you can go on and on.....and our track record on transfers isnt great so that doesnt give me hope. Nah, keep him and put great players around him. Firstly, when Grealish first came through in to our first team, we were in the Premier League, he had a major impact when he came in under Sherwood. Then when we got relegated, he could’ve jumped ship then but he decided to stay with us. You list other teams supposed bad buys but you forget our good ones like McGinn for £3m who is now a key player for us. If Grealish goes to a bigger team, he can achieve his career ambitions. I think it has become clear that Grealish is too good for us, all of our attacks go through him. There is a sense of anticipation from the crowd every time he gets the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, OxfordVillan said: Agreed. But two things must happen for Grealish not to be tempted away; (1) Villa must remain a Premier League club. (2) If (1) is achieved then Investment must be made in the next transfer window to bring in 2-3 very good players to compliment Grealish in the 1st team, that would likely cost £150-200m for 3 very good players. Next season we would have to be at the level that Wolves are currently at to justify players at the level of Grealish remaining at the club, we would have to become a fixture in the top 7 or 8 clubs IMO. but also while players have a major influence on their movements, he still has a contract with us. Somebody has to come up with the funds for him and there arent that many teams that can afford him and who he would go to. He's not going to Newcastle or Everton, so whose going to buy him...I wrote about this a month or so ago about each team that could possibly be and given all the circumstances it's only likely 1 or 2 teams that would fit the criteria and that's if they are interested at the levels we are talking about. You only need one party interested and something will happen i get that. We do need to invest around him with quality i agree, I assume we will. Last summer needed quantity over quality given how our squad was depleted but this close season should quality as we dont need quantity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 18 minutes ago, nick76 said: Also we spent 140m last summer plus the funding they have put into the club. They know we are far from a PL team and need investment. I'd be surprised if they did that initial investment with the chance of major failure back to the championship. Additionally they have told us they have major ambitions and so far they havent lied to us. They may fall back on this in the future but no reason to doubt them so far and their actions so far have backed up what they are saying. The owners talk the talk and Christian Purslow does but they could be lying. If we didn’t spend £140m or whatever the figure was last Summer, we would be rock bottom of the league. We only spent £8.5m in January on Samatta so it could backfire on us, the other transfers were loans. There is a very real possibility that we could be relegated this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Firstly, when Grealish first came through in to our first team, we were in the Premier League, he had a major impact when he came in under Sherwood. Then when we got relegated, he could’ve jumped ship then but he decided to stay with us. You list other teams supposed bad buys but you forget our good ones like McGinn for £3m who is now a key player for us. If Grealish goes to a bigger team, he can achieve his career ambitions. I think it has become clear that Grealish is too good for us, all of our attacks go through him. There is a sense of anticipation from the crowd every time he gets the ball. 16 matches, 16 defeats in his appearances. Yes not his fault but you are over exaggerating his impact. He was a talent, just like any other talent kid coming in but it was only potential then and glimpses. Yeah how many good ones have we had.....you say McGinn...yeah brilliant......keep going..... bet you over 50% at least arent that great. You, like me, are on this website all the time and know how our players get talked about and how we are in this position in the league because of our purchases (and some argue coaching). I reckon if there was a poll on each player brought whether they have been a success to date you would get very low levels of successes, not only this close summer but for the past 4 or 5 years (and longer) but lets stay with this current management structure. Frederic Guilbert Returning loan Caen Jota Permanent Birmingham City Anwar El Ghazi Permanent Lille Kortney Hause Permanent Wolverhampton Wanderers Wesley Permanent Club Brugge Matt Targett Permanent Southampton Tyrone Mings Permanent Bournemouth Ezri Konsa Permanent Brentford Björn Engels Permanent Stade Remis Douglas Luiz Permanent Manchester City Mahmoud Hassan (Trezeguet) Permanent Kasimpasa Marvelous Nakamba Permanent Club Brugge Tom Heaton Permanent Burnley There will be mixed views on a number of these players but still likely more negative than positive So what if everything goes through him, he's our best option, most teams have a best option. Our team should buy other options. Even the big teams have a key player that creates things. I'll never get to a day when I will say a player is too good for Aston Villa......that's just BS in my mind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: The owners talk the talk and Christian Purslow does but they could be lying. If we didn’t spend £140m or whatever the figure was last Summer, we would be rock bottom of the league. We only spent £8.5m in January on Samatta so it could backfire on us, the other transfers were loans. There is a very real possibility that we could be relegated this season So your first instinct is that they are lying? Great mind set. What they have said they will do so far they have done but still you doubt them. It's fair to have reservations and if they do turn then fine slaughter them but they have spent 150m in two transfers windows plus funding for the club in other components, I think they have done their fair share. Now if recruitment is a problem or coaching is a problem then that is less their fault. Yes they hire these people but Smith just got us promoted and the vibe in the club was amazing so it was fair of them to keep him. Jesus has a great track record so a wise choice recruiting him to recruit players....so I cant see why you have a mentality that they could be lying. If we get relegated this season, then so be it, but there is no way I can argue to say the owners havent done all they can to keep us up....they provided substantial money, only second behind Man U, kept a manager that just got us promoted and hired Purslow and Jesus who are very respected in the football community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, nick76 said: 16 matches, 16 defeats in his appearances. Yes not his fault but you are over exaggerating his impact. He was a talent, just like any other talent kid coming in but it was only potential then and glimpses. Yeah how many good ones have we had.....you say McGinn...yeah brilliant......keep going..... bet you over 50% at least arent that great. You, like me, are on this website all the time and know how our players get talked about and how we are in this position in the league because of our purchases (and some argue coaching). I reckon if there was a poll on each player brought whether they have been a success to date you would get very low levels of successes, not only this close summer but for the past 4 or 5 years (and longer) but lets stay with this current management structure. Frederic Guilbert Returning loan Caen Jota Permanent Birmingham City Anwar El Ghazi Permanent Lille Kortney Hause Permanent Wolverhampton Wanderers Wesley Permanent Club Brugge Matt Targett Permanent Southampton Tyrone Mings Permanent Bournemouth Ezri Konsa Permanent Brentford Björn Engels Permanent Stade Remis Douglas Luiz Permanent Manchester City Mahmoud Hassan (Trezeguet) Permanent Kasimpasa Marvelous Nakamba Permanent Club Brugge Tom Heaton Permanent Burnley There will be mixed views on a number of these players but still likely more negative than positive So what if everything goes through him, he's our best option, most teams have a best option. Our team should buy other options. Even the big teams have a key player that creates things. I'll never get to a day when I will say a player is too good for Aston Villa......that's just BS in my mind Maybe we weren’t in a position to buy other options. A lot of older fans say that Grealish is the best ever player to play for the club. Do you remember his debut against Hull City at Villa Park? He came on as a sub for the last 20 minutes or so and he was fouled constantly by the opposition, they couldn’t handle him. Match Of The Day highlighted it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Maybe we weren’t in a position to buy other options. A lot of older fans say that Grealish is the best ever player to play for the club. Do you remember his debut against Hull City at Villa Park? He came on as a sub for the last 20 minutes or so and he was fouled constantly by the opposition, they couldn’t handle him. Match Of The Day highlighted it I do, he is a great great talent. I'm not going near the greatest player conversation because I always think that is overblown with any player, it's hard to compare different positions, different era's of players and supporters are all of different ages so have seen different amount of players. Plus you also have in the moment, where something is the best.....that's the best game I've ever seen, that' the best movie I'm ever seen, that's the best.....and so and so on. For me, Paul McGrath is the best player I've seen in Villa colours by a mile. I was in Barcelona last April and watching Messi play was incredible, that guy can play. Anyway I'm going on a tangent....he's an incredible player hence why should we let him go, why not build around him. As for your other point, yes we couldnt afford other players because we had to buy quantity, not quality last summer because of the number of bodies we needed to have a squad but hopefully this summer we can add quality but my point in my last post was that a number of teams have tried to buy quality, spending big amounts from Pepe, Joelinton, Haller and they, I would argue, have been very poor signings and we would be lucky to get two of them with the money we'd get for Jack so why sell Jack. Plus if you say Grealish, according to some older fans, is the best to every play for Villa, why would you sell him? I don't get that. Please dont say because he's too good for us....that's a very defeatist attitude if you say that, i hope you dont. Edited April 20, 2020 by nick76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 25 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: A lot of older fans say that Grealish is the best ever player to play for the club. Paul McGrath says hi. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 There's a difference between wanting to sell him and not begrudging him a move If after selling sancho dortmund came in for him then I would be the latter, if it was any other PL team I would be the former And the talk of us spending £150m every window and in 2-3 years we will be right up there... Nonsense, we are properly way off with a host of clubs also spending that kind of money in front of us, get the idea of him playing champions league with villa out of your head, Barring some sort of miracle or Barry being the next Harry Kane (and doing it at an earlier age...) it's not happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, nick76 said: I do, he is a great great talent. I'm not going near the greatest player conversation because I always think that is overblown with any player, it's hard to compare different positions, different era's of players and supporters are all of different ages so have seen different amount of players. Plus you also have in the moment, where something is the best.....that's the best game I've ever seen, that' the best movie I'm ever seen, that's the best.....and so and so on. For me, Paul McGrath is the best player I've seen in Villa colours by a mile. I was in Barcelona last April and watching Messi play was incredible, that guy can play. Anyway I'm going on a tangent....he's an incredible player hence why should we let him go, why not build around him. As for your other point, yes we couldnt afford other players because we had to buy quantity, not quality last summer because of the number of bodies we needed to have a squad but hopefully this summer we can add quality but my point in my last post was that a number of teams have tried to buy quality, spending big amounts from Pepe, Joelinton, Haller and they, I would argue, have been very poor signings and we would be lucky to get two of them with the money we'd get for Jack so why sell Jack. Plus if you say Grealish, according to some older fans, is the best to every play for Villa, why would you sell him? I don't get that. Please dont say because he's too good for us....that's a very defeatist attitude if you say that, i hope you dont. I’m not usually defeatist at all but I can admit when a player is as good as Grealish is and how much he stands out in our side. I’m guessing here but he probably has become frustrated with the players around him, I wouldn’t blame him if he did become frustrated. I agree with you that just because a team spends a lot of money on 1 player, it doesn’t automatically guarantee success 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 The only "realistic" way for Villa to get CL football is to first win a domestic cup and then win the Europa League and get the spot through there. I don't think Villa will ever play in the CL. I think there is more of a chance the CL will be abandoned for a European Super League by the big clubs before Villa qualifying for the CL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: There's a difference between wanting to sell him and not begrudging him a move If after selling sancho dortmund came in for him then I would be the latter, if it was any other PL team I would be the former And the talk of us spending £150m every window and in 2-3 years we will be right up there... Nonsense, we are properly way off with a host of clubs also spending that kind of money in front of us, get the idea of him playing champions league with villa out of your head, Barring some sort of miracle or Barry being the next Harry Kane (and doing it at an earlier age...) it's not happening I'm a Villa fan first not a Jack Grealish fan first. I would begrudge him a move, he's a Villa player under contract. Yes best player at our club, yes could grace big teams but he's contracted to us and if he forced a leave and we didnt want him to leave then yes I would begrudge him. Unless a stupid offer came in, I dont know why we would, or our owners would want to sell.....we arent a feeder club, we arent poor, we play in the PL, we have history and if we survive, with a few better players we would be back to a top 10-12 team in the PL, which arguably would be in the top 50 in Europe if not better. We arent some small club, we arent a big club but we still have stature but have been woeful for a number of years. I didnt say we would be spending 150m every window but a few key additions to this squad and we would be much higher in the league. I never said playing champions league playing for Villa but a number of teams wont be playing champions league football. Man united probably wont be playing champions league next season based on being 5th at the moment and he's the club he's being linked with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: I’m not usually defeatist at all but I can admit when a player is as good as Grealish is and how much he stands out in our side. I’m guessing here but he probably has become frustrated with the players around him, I wouldn’t blame him if he did become frustrated. I agree with you that just because a team spends a lot of money on 1 player, it doesn’t automatically guarantee success well McGinn is back who we all know how much them two have a bro-mance. I guess it's now depends what happens next both in terms of relegation and buying players in the market. If we survive and buy a couple of quality players then that makes a world of difference. If we are relegated then he goes, if we survive and get in players like drinkwater then I feel for him definitely but I still want him to stay. I have to believe in the plan the owners and management say they have. If we survive and sell Grealish I believe the club are taking two steps backwards...... Edited April 20, 2020 by nick76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, nick76 said: well McGinn is back who we all know how much them two have a bro-mance. I guess it's now depends what happens next both in terms of relegation and buying players in the market. If we survive and buy a couple of quality players then that makes a world of difference. If we are relegated then he goes, if we survive and get in players like drinkwater then I feel for him definitely but I still want him to stay. I have to believe in the plan the owners and management say they have. I love it when McGinn and Grealish link up, they ran riot in The Championship for us. It is imperative that we stay up this season for the good of the club 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 To be honest he will need to leave Villa to have a career that his talent deserves. We are at present no where near top 10 let alone top 6 side. I thought he would have left two years ago so this has been a massive bonus. If we get a big fee and actually reinvest in the team then that would be acceptable. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: To be honest he will need to leave Villa to have a career that his talent deserves. We are at present no where near top 10 let alone top 6 side. I thought he would have left two years ago so this has been a massive bonus. If we get a big fee and actually reinvest in the team then that would be acceptable. Sadly, I think you are correct 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) Ok, from now on, anybody that plays well for Villa we should sell.......... I think we should start thinking about selling Louie Barry now if he shows any potential close or in the first team over the next year and Chukwuemeka should be sold now especially given interest by the bigger clubs....in fact we havent got him to sign the contract yet, we should pull out and let a big club, a club he deserves with his talent, take him now. No longer we moan if we lose to teams above us because they deserve to be there, in fact for any of the big clubs, let's concede the points before games start because they deserve the points before us. Over reaction, yes.......but what if Louie Barry is as good as people say, are we going to be sitting here in 2 years with you guys saying the same thing about him.....the same with Chukwuemeka who some have considered the best young talent around for his age. I just dont get your attitudes, just perplexes me. If our owners every felt the same way you guys did then we should just shut up shop now. Edited April 20, 2020 by nick76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 that's the premier league and FFP more than it is villa despite what sky keep banging on about its not competitive, its shit and if grealish funds a team being built that is then ready for barry and chukwuemeka to be the final pieces then fair play to our staff but unfortunately I don't think villa fans have the patience for us to build that kind of team 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, nick76 said: 16 matches, 16 defeats in his appearances. Yes not his fault but you are over exaggerating his impact. He was a talent, just like any other talent kid coming in but it was only potential then and glimpses. Yeah how many good ones have we had.....you say McGinn...yeah brilliant......keep going..... bet you over 50% at least arent that great. You, like me, are on this website all the time and know how our players get talked about and how we are in this position in the league because of our purchases (and some argue coaching). I reckon if there was a poll on each player brought whether they have been a success to date you would get very low levels of successes, not only this close summer but for the past 4 or 5 years (and longer) but lets stay with this current management structure. Frederic Guilbert Returning loan Caen Jota Permanent Birmingham City Anwar El Ghazi Permanent Lille Kortney Hause Permanent Wolverhampton Wanderers Wesley Permanent Club Brugge Matt Targett Permanent Southampton Tyrone Mings Permanent Bournemouth Ezri Konsa Permanent Brentford Björn Engels Permanent Stade Remis Douglas Luiz Permanent Manchester City Mahmoud Hassan (Trezeguet) Permanent Kasimpasa Marvelous Nakamba Permanent Club Brugge Tom Heaton Permanent Burnley There will be mixed views on a number of these players but still likely more negative than positive So what if everything goes through him, he's our best option, most teams have a best option. Our team should buy other options. Even the big teams have a key player that creates things. I'll never get to a day when I will say a player is too good for Aston Villa......that's just BS in my mind A very good post in my opinion and close to our problem of why we are 19th in the league. Jack is trying to do it all himself, even comes back, because he is the only one with ball control to keep the darn thing......that is clearly not right, being in that position, where ball control is so lacking in so many players, that one guy has to take over. How many of those players are markedly better, since their arrival....after 28 games? Edited April 20, 2020 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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