The RJW63 Official Jack Grealish Appreciation Thread

[John]

11 hours ago, fifamad said:

Maddison had a far better season than Grealish. Also I think most non villa fans would say he’s a much better option for 20m than Grealish for 30+ let’s be honest. 

Jack had less than half a season.

I don't care what non Villa fans might say (at the moment it is best not to listen to them at all).  

Maddison looks good but not Jack good! 

It is sad that the vultures will be in and offering peanuts for our future England international and that we look likely to have to accept the least insulting of a set of insulting bids to pay the bills for a month or two. I would not be shocked if Norwich get more for their player as well.     

[villa89]

Selling him off for £30m is going to be one of the low points in this club's history. An aboslute bargain for whoever gets him.

[Cjay]

14 hours ago, A'Villan said:

We got 20 million for Ashley Young, and that was back then.

Delph is playing for a title winning side.

Benteke went for 30 million.

Grealish is only 22 and he could surpass them all in skill.

I rate him higher than most, I really think he could be David Silva level if he keeps working hard.

I can promise you, the potential is huge for this kid, and I have to wonder how often you have seen him play?

Coutinho was raw playing at Inter at the age Jack is now, he had some obvious skill and talent but didn't impose himself on games like he does now.

He went to Liverpool for 8.5million but look at what he's worth a few years later, 100 million.

40million for Jack isn't ridiculous, I wouldn't want that money in exchange. Even though we will never see anything near it until he has proven his worth to the world.

I haven't seen him play as much as you guys clearly, but you've been on tele a fair few times since he appeared so i have seen him quite often.#

 

I see what your saying, but you cant really compare Grealish to any of those players, Benteke, Delph etc. 

£20mil for Young seemed a lot and was a few years ago but he was a proven Premier League player then, he'd been doing a good job for you for 3 or 4 years by then in the Prem. Benteke i think had a 1 in 2 Premier League strike rate for you when he left, and Delph the same was a regular in the Prem and all 3 were full internationals by the time they left. 

What i said was more about the state of English player valuations, i think its ridiculous, was just using Jack Grealish as an example. 

On a simple level, why would a Liverpool or whatever spend £40mil on Jack Grealish when they can maybe get Jota from Wolves for similar, or Justin Kluivert for £30mil? 

With the greatest of respect those are two players younger by a few years, and more proven. 

As i say, not knocking Grealish, may seem like i am but i really do rate him, its more my dismay with the obscene in my eyes valuations English players are getting. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Cjay

[Cjay]

3 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

Don't forget, we judge the value of Grealish in a comparison to our other players sold in the past.

We've had players like Hendrie, Vassell, Luke Moore, Gabby, Milner, Ashley Young, Stuart Downing etc etc - Grealish is better than all of them (imo).  He'll win titles and European Cups if he chooses the right move - as much as that pains me to say. 

He's an absolutely brilliant player, and has been the star of our team for 18 months now, admittedly in the Championship.  You put him in a good side, he'd be phenomenal. 

As I said, all my opinion, but I believe he's the best player we've had in years.  He's so naturally gifted.  He can pass, dribble, he's learning how and when to shoot with maximum effect, he has game intelligence, he can now run with the ball effectively (he used to stifle our play a little by keeping it too long) - he's becoming a very effective number 10.

I've been saying for a while now that his style is like Totti.  Maybe he doesn't quite have that vision yet, but he's 22 and he's only going to get better. 

I just hope his career doesn't go the way of some our other young players leaving like Benteke (who should be playing CL now, and would be if he hadn't signed for Liverpool) and wastes his potential. 

After this season, it looks like he'll have to further his career elsewhere - but he's going to be absolutely brilliant.  One season in the Prem and he'll get a call up and he'll soon be running the England show. 

I understand your point.

He is your local lad, us fans always feel very strongly when we get talented lads, especially local ones coming through so i do see where your all coming from. 

Just as an outsider, as a football fan, not a Leeds fan, i look at Jack Grealish fairly, i look at his stats  and i think to myself, why would i spend 20, 30, 40mil on him?

You guys see his progression, you see his all round game week in week out, i dont. 

All i can look at is what all fans look at when looking at players, how have they done, im quite fair, if we sign a striker i take minutes played into account and such, i do maths. 

So overall he has played 44 games in the Championship ( i rounded it down), during that time he has scored 8 goals and he has 8 assists. 

So thats basically a full season, 8 goals 8 assists, thats not to bad, but its nothing marvelous.

Samu Saiz- 29 games, 5 goals 7 assists. . . . James Maddison- 40 games 14 goals, 8 assists . . . Diogo Jota - 40 games, 17 goals, 5 assists . . Gianni Alioski- 35 games, 7 goals, 5 assists . . Pablo Hernandez- 33 games, 7 goals 8 assists etc etc. 

I realise with Grealish you sell potential to, but the stats dont back up the price is all im saying. 

I see all your points of view, i really do, we have had lots of local lads come through and you become very protective of them, just as a football fan i dont see where the 20-40mil value comes from, thats all. 

 

[vreitti]

2 minutes ago, Cjay said:

I understand your point.

He is your local lad, us fans always feel very strongly when we get talented lads, especially local ones coming through so i do see where your all coming from. 

Just as an outsider, as a football fan, not a Leeds fan, i look at Jack Grealish fairly, i look at his stats  and i think to myself, why would i spend 20, 30, 40mil on him?

You guys see his progression, you see his all round game week in week out, i dont. 

All i can look at is what all fans look at when looking at players, how have they done, im quite fair, if we sign a striker i take minutes played into account and such, i do maths. 

So overall he has played 44 games in the Championship ( i rounded it down), during that time he has scored 8 goals and he has 8 assists. 

So thats basically a full season, 8 goals 8 assists, thats not to bad, but its nothing marvelous.

Samu Saiz- 29 games, 5 goals 7 assists. . . . James Maddison- 40 games 14 goals, 8 assists . . . Diogo Jota - 40 games, 17 goals, 5 assists . . Gianni Alioski- 35 games, 7 goals, 5 assists . . Pablo Hernandez- 33 games, 7 goals 8 assists etc etc. 

I realise with Grealish you sell potential to, but the stats dont back up the price is all im saying. 

I see all your points of view, i really do, we have had lots of local lads come through and you become very protective of them, just as a football fan i dont see where the 20-40mil value comes from, thats all. 

 

Stats isn't everything. Perhaps try watching the actual performances (and games). If you don't see the difference, I'd suggest a visit to the optometrist.

[villa89]

3 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Honestly, does no one else still think we should keep him at all costs?

If the team has to be dismantled I would rather sell everyone else and build the new young team around him.

Even if it means he becomes captain or senior. (This does not mean I think he should be captain)

I mean I think we should try our best to keep at least ONE shining element ffs.

 

Obviously he isn't going to stay in the Championship, especially not with a club that's falling apart. He'll be playing in the premier league next season.

[VILLAMARV]

3 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Honestly, does no one else still think we should keep him at all costs?

If the team has to be dismantled I would rather sell everyone else and build the new young team around him.

Even if it means he becomes captain or senior. (This does not mean I think he should be captain)

I mean I think we should try our best to keep at least ONE shining element ffs.

Everyone's with you really JV, everyone.

[carewjust4u]

9 minutes ago, Cjay said:

I understand your point.

He is your local lad, us fans always feel very strongly when we get talented lads, especially local ones coming through so i do see where your all coming from. 

Just as an outsider, as a football fan, not a Leeds fan, i look at Jack Grealish fairly, i look at his stats  and i think to myself, why would i spend 20, 30, 40mil on him?

You guys see his progression, you see his all round game week in week out, i dont. 

All i can look at is what all fans look at when looking at players, how have they done, im quite fair, if we sign a striker i take minutes played into account and such, i do maths. 

So overall he has played 44 games in the Championship ( i rounded it down), during that time he has scored 8 goals and he has 8 assists. 

So thats basically a full season, 8 goals 8 assists, thats not to bad, but its nothing marvelous.

Samu Saiz- 29 games, 5 goals 7 assists. . . . James Maddison- 40 games 14 goals, 8 assists . . . Diogo Jota - 40 games, 17 goals, 5 assists . . Gianni Alioski- 35 games, 7 goals, 5 assists . . Pablo Hernandez- 33 games, 7 goals 8 assists etc etc. 

I realise with Grealish you sell potential to, but the stats dont back up the price is all im saying. 

I see all your points of view, i really do, we have had lots of local lads come through and you become very protective of them, just as a football fan i dont see where the 20-40mil value comes from, thats all. 

 

Just another stat to consider, he averages an average of 2 key passes a game which is the 8th highest in the Championship.

He also averages 3 successful dribbles a game which is the 4th best in the championship.

He also averages 3.4 fouls a game, which is the highest in the championship.

As you said you need to look at the all round game, and consider he is only 22, before being able to give an accurate opinion on the transfer-value valuation.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/6848/Stages/16231/PlayerStatistics/England-Championship-2017-2018

[Cjay]

21 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Stats isn't everything. Perhaps try watching the actual performances (and games). If you don't see the difference, I'd suggest a visit to the optometrist.

Alright mate, not going to argue with you, didnt mean to start an argument 

[Cjay]

12 minutes ago, carewjust4u said:

Just another stat to consider, he averages an average of 2 key passes a game which is the 8th highest in the Championship.

He also averages 3 successful dribbles a game which is the 4th best in the championship.

He also averages 3.4 fouls a game, which is the highest in the championship.

As you said you need to look at the all round game, and consider he is only 22, before being able to give an accurate opinion on the transfer-value valuation.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/6848/Stages/16231/PlayerStatistics/England-Championship-2017-2018

Yeah your right, i didnt go well in depth looking into stats i admit, just did a quick one on goals and assists. 

My main point was English player valuations compared to similar players from abroad, thats all.

[choffer]

25 minutes ago, Cjay said:

I realise with Grealish you sell potential to, but the stats dont back up the price is all im saying.

The thing is, very few clubs buy a player based on game stats. Most will have a player watched countless times and see the influence he has on matches, his approach, is progression, his attitude and aptitude. Stats are way down the line when it comes to valuing a player. 

[Hoof hearted]

3 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Honestly, does no one else still think we should keep him at all costs?

If the team has to be dismantled I would rather sell everyone else and build the new young team around him.

Even if it means he becomes captain or senior. (This does not mean I think he should be captain)

I mean I think we should try our best to keep at least ONE shining element ffs.

 

Absolutely agree JV.

Has anybody actually stopped to think that he may want to stay?

Le Tissier was linked umpteen times with moves away from Southampton even when they were strapped for cash and he just said no. I know times have changed and agents are like wormtongue in the king's ear but maybe, just maybe there's a tiny bit of loyalty left in the game. 

I won't begrudge Jack a move away at any point in his career as he is Villa through and through, what I will begrudge is the bastards that force him to do it.

[Cjay]

4 minutes ago, choffer said:

The thing is, very few clubs buy a player based on game stats. Most will have a player watched countless times and see the influence he has on matches, his approach, is progression, his attitude and aptitude. Stats are way down the line when it comes to valuing a player. 

Yeah i understand that, i can only look as an average fan who cant watch all his games. 

 

Im sure there is much more to his game then goals and assists. 

 

Will say he gets kicked a hell of a lot. 

[choffer]

1 minute ago, Cjay said:

Will say he gets kicked a hell of a lot. 

Yep - "Free kicks won" would be a good stat to look at.

 

[carewjust4u]

10 minutes ago, Cjay said:

Yeah your right, i didnt go well in depth looking into stats i admit, just did a quick one on goals and assists. 

My main point was English player valuations compared to similar players from abroad, thats all.

Please don't take my comment as aggressive mate, i completely agree with your point on English players. My biggest fear relating to this is foreign clubs being priced out of affording our national youth, as they seem to be the only ones that want to give them actual gametime....but i guess that's a conversation for another time.

[VILLAMARV]

@Cjay, I remember saying this to you back at the start of the season

Quote

If we end up in a situation where we are selling Grealish and Kodjia to pay the rest of Richards's contract though things will turn very ugly and fast.

And here we are it seems.

The one thing I thought was we were prepared, I'm still reeling as is the rest of this board from the fact that we bet the house on it. It was obvious we were throwing a lot of money at the problem and that was unsustainable but the extent of it - ah, surely for another thread!

On Grealish we may well lose one hell of a player for a fraction of his worth. Until it's on the OS though and he's in another shirt he embodies the small amount of hope we have left in the current shitstorm

Honestly mate, I get it with Grealish, pop back a couple of years in this thread and we were wondering if he'll ever make it at times. Most people have seen him flatter to deceive. People aren't going to be buying that Jack though, if he indeed leaves. We've seen him mature this year. Our circumstances may yet dictate any hypothetical price and as fans we'll suck it up and carry on if it happens.

13 minutes ago, Hoof hearted said:

Absolutely agree JV.

Has anybody actually stopped to think that he may want to stay?

Le Tissier was linked umpteen times with moves away from Southampton even when they were strapped for cash and he just said no. I know times have changed and agents are like wormtongue in the king's ear but maybe, just maybe there's a tiny bit of loyalty left in the game. 

I won't begrudge Jack a move away at any point in his career as he is Villa through and through, what I will begrudge is the bastards that force him to do it.

I think at this point it's our only hope.

[VILLAMARV]

Still worth £40m+ whatever anyone says

[AndyM3000]

43 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Stats isn't everything. Perhaps try watching the actual performances (and games). If you don't see the difference, I'd suggest a visit to the optometrist.

Statistically Gana was better than Kante but one is at Everton and the other at Chelsea with a couple of PL titles.

[Cjay]

9 minutes ago, carewjust4u said:

Please don't take my comment as aggressive mate, i completely agree with your point on English players. My biggest fear relating to this is foreign clubs being priced out of affording our national youth, as they seem to be the only ones that want to give them actual gametime....but i guess that's a conversation for another time.

No no i didn't mate lol its all good. 

You've got a point there as well, if we keep knocking up the prices the only teams who will consider paying it are English teams, eventually will run out of English teams who can afford it, then what happens. 

 

 

[A'Villan]

1 hour ago, Cjay said:

I see what your saying, but you cant really compare Grealish to any of those players, Benteke, Delph etc. 

£20mil for Young seemed a lot and was a few years ago but he was a proven Premier League player then, he'd been doing a good job for you for 3 or 4 years by then in the Prem. Benteke i think had a 1 in 2 Premier League strike rate for you when he left, and Delph the same was a regular in the Prem and all 3 were full internationals by the time they left. 

What i said was more about the state of English player valuations, i think its ridiculous, was just using Jack Grealish as an example. 

On a simple level, why would a Liverpool or whatever spend £40mil on Jack Grealish when they can maybe get Jota from Wolves for similar, or Justin Kluivert for £30mil? 

With the greatest of respect those are two players younger by a few years, and more proven. 

As i say, not knocking Grealish, may seem like i am but i really do rate him, its more my dismay with the obscene in my eyes valuations English players are getting. 

You don't come across as though you are knocking him, just providing a different perspective on what prospective buyers might want to pay.

I think you have to understand my bias here. 20 million seemed like a lot for Ashley Young? He's still starting for them, and I would have preferred they kept their money.

Same goes for the others mentioned. These players are so valuable to a club like ours. As I said previously, I think Jack will surpass the feats of the players I mentioned.

You're right though, Jack is unproven at Premier League level. And that's the same reason Liverpool got Coutinho for 8.5 million. Jack won't command the fee we want.

Like Coutinho though watch Jack's market value absolutely sky rocket once he comes of age.