Bollitics: Local & Euro Elections 2009

[mykeyb]

Maybe the politically correct PC brigade, will now realise, that it's not about racism it's about a clampdown on mass immigration and this is what the protest votes are all about.

So, because you feel uncomfortable with the levels of immigration, you felt comfortable with putting your cross next to a party which only allows membership to people whose ethnic origin is described as emanating from the 'indigenous caucasian' racial group (source - BNP constitution)?

I wonder how many people voted BNP safe in the knowledge that these people wouldnt be coming to power?

[mjmooney]

I was listening to R4 last night and there were a few mainstream politicians on lamenting the BNP vote saying "They dress themselves up as being respectable, but WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE TO SEE THAT THEY ARE REALLY A RACIST PARTY".

This is simply wishful thinking and completely missing the point. The bulk of BNP voters support them PRECISELY BECAUSE they are a racist party!

Don't these people realise that there are racist voters out there?

No doubt there are some misguided souls who claim it was really just a protest vote (some on here, in fact). I wonder what percentage of the Nazi vote in 1932 was a "protest" against the perceived ineptitude of the democratic parties?

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

[sled]

Leave moderation to the mods please

EDIT: OK, whatever-your-name-is.

Oh and absolutely spot on Mike.

[tonyh29]

my gut feel is Griffen will fail

mystic Tony strikes again ..I'm getting good at this prediction lark :oops:

To elect someone who is neither a citizen nor a resident of this country to represent it is, frankly, incredibly bizarre.

at least they were elected :winkold:

[Rodders]

far too many voters it seems would rather have sided with the fuhrer back in the 40's and shot their grandparents to death on omaha.

pity really.

[Awol]

And off we go again. Junior Environment Minister Jane Kennedy just resigned..

Edit: But Gordon is saying he's sacked her :? Ahh, Broon asked her for a personal pledge of loyalty and she said "no".

Day of the long knives as Gordon try's to smoke out the evil doers?

[villal]

far too many voters it seems would rather have sided with the fuhrer back in the 40's and shot their grandparents to death on omaha.

pity really.

Back then the level of corruption in politics wasn't so high and most definitely wasn't as visible

media was restricted totally to what the government wanted you to hear..

No comparison at all really

[mjmooney]

far too many voters it seems would rather have sided with the fuhrer back in the 40's and shot their grandparents to death on omaha.

pity really.

Being pedantic, British voters' grandparents wouldn't have been on Omaha (unless - possibly - they were Navy). They would have been on Gold, Juno or Sword.

[tonyh29]

I think the other parties may need to be a bit more wary of them (BNP) now .. the message before was to not confront them and they will go away but i'm sure a lot of people put UKIP on a parr with the Monster raving loony party when they came on the scene and look how they have stuck around

The party ought to be hated for what it stands for but they appear to have worked on trying to appear as a normal as possible ( focus seemingly being on Asylum seekers and illegal immigrants ) .... This would suggest that the UK is not full of Right wing foreigner haters , but is full of people who seem to think that immigration control has gone a tad awry ...thus I could see disillusioned people , particularly those who don't follow politics closely , falling for it .. However I don't think they can keep the guard up so maybe we need to put someone like Griffen on QT and let the country see him for what he is ?

Interesting that the labour vote seems to have gone to the BNP in some areas though ..maybe Gordon's message of British jobs for British workers sent out a confusing message to labourites ....

[VillaAndLoyal]

people who seem to think that immigration control has gone a tad awry

Quite possibly the understatement of the century and exactly the type of rhetoric i'd expect to hear from a Cabinet minister- that's if there are any left.

[knowles]

I think lots of People do not believe their lives are better due to multiculturalism, people do not accept the fact they should take pay cuts & accept longer hours to compete with immigrant workers, people on the social housing waiting list do not gracefully accept the fact asylum seekers are more deserving of a habitable home than they are. The BNP are the only party who accept this hence they will continue gathering support until the main stream take their heads out of the politically correct sand & do something about it.

[johnsonp]

‽‽

Having got to the end of last weeks QT now, my hate for Farage is cemented in place. He's a knob.

God I agree with this, I listened to him on Radio 5 on the way down from Newcastle to Solihull a few weeks ago.

[tonyh29]

Farage

He still spouts the 75 % of our laws come from Brussels .. i'm quite sure that someone showed that wasn't the case but again when he says it enough times on TV a lot of people believe it and feel angry enough about it to vote for his party ... It's interesting how UKIP got booed a few times when their results were announced and they do seem to get a hard time from the public and press ... I assume a lot of people conceive them to be a far right party ??

Daniel Hannan was good value again last night ... wonder what the long term holds for him ??

[mjmooney]

‽‽

Having got to the end of last weeks QT now, my hate for Farage is cemented in place. He's a knob.

God I agree with this, I listened to him on Radio 5 on the way down from Newcastle to Solihull a few weeks ago.

Interview with Farage in the Grauniad.

He may as well walk around with a big flashing neon "rocket polisher" sign over his head.

Nigel Farage, Ukip: 'Other party leaders live in a PC world.'He openly enjoys his booze, lapdancing and MEP's allowance, and yet his party is enjoying a renaissance. No wonder Ukip's leader is smiling

Simon Hattenstone guardian.co.uk, Friday 5 June 2009 23.01

Nigel Farage is stuck in traffic, so his Ukip colleagues provide the entertainment. There's John Gill, the office junior who looks alarmingly like Joy Division's Ian Curtis and whose grandfather, Tory MP Christopher Gill, was one of the original Maastricht rebels; Marta Andreasen, who was head accountant at the EU until she turned expenses whistleblower – she now looks after Ukip's finances and is a candidate in the European elections despite her Spanish passport. And then there is an extrovert middle-aged skinhead wearing jeans and shades. "So you're from the Guardian?" he says, full of bonhomie. "My brother used to work for the Guardian. That's the good news. The bad news is I hate him. He's a **** clearing in the woods. We said to him, the way you're going you'll end up at the Guardian, and he **** well did. clearing in the woods."

I'm not sure how to respond so I ask him what his relationship to Ukip is. He thrusts out a hand for shaking. "Ah, Clive Page, head of communications." Page fails to mention he is also a convicted benefit fraudster – in 2004, he received an 80-hour community punishment order for claiming more than £5,000 on a flat he didn't live in.

These could be heady times for the United Kingdom Independence party. In 2004, they came from nowhere to win 12 seats in Europe, winning an astonishing 16% of the vote. They soon became mired in scandal and infighting, and looked a spent political force. Until the Westminster expenses scandal. Now they are expected to win at least 15 seats in the European parliament. If things go well they will remain Britain's third biggest party in Europe. If things go really well they could be the second biggest.

The irony is Ukip's raison d'etre is to oppose Europe and clamp down on immigration. They are sometimes confused with the BNP, which distresses them – they like to see themselves as the proud-to-be-British-but-not-a-single-racist-bone-in-our-body party. Meanwhile, David Cameron described them as "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists".

There is another Ukip irony. People are expected to embrace the party as a protest vote, but the protest is likely to have nothing to do with Europe – it will be about perceived corruption in the three main parties. And one final irony – Ukip have potentially the dodgiest financial record of all; of its 12 MEPS one, former policeman Tom Wise, has been charged with money laundering and false accounting, while another, Ashley Mote, elected for Ukip in 2004 before becoming an independent, was jailed for benefit fraud in 2007. Meanwhile, the party voted against increased EU transparency over expenses, and Farage boasts that he has taken £2m of taxpayers' money in expenses and allowances in his 10 years as an MEP.

The Ukip leader finally arrives, in a sweat. "Bloody traffic." He is smartly dressed as always – blue suit, pink tie, co-ordinated pink and blue shirt. Farage is a curious hybrid – part toff, part barrow boy, Mr Angry meets Cheeky Chappie.

Ukip HQ comprises two scruffy rooms on the fifth floor of a grand building in central London. The photographer asks if he will stand in front of the 6ft union flag in the corner of the office. "No, not in front of the union jack," says Page on Farage's behalf. "That's just a joke thing."

I ask Page to explain the joke. "No, it's just an in-joke."

Photo taken, against a neutral background, Farage decides it's time for sustenance. As he crosses the road, a black-cab driver hoots his support. Farage gives him the thumbs-up. "A few haven't charged me, yes. They say, 'We're behind you mate.' Yes, it's quite funny."

He leads me to a pub, a few yards from New Scotland Yard. "Ah, breakfast!" he says. (Actually, it's lunchtime.) "I've not eaten for two days."

What does he fancy? "A pint of Landlord I would have thought, wouldn't you? You want one. Right, goody good. Excellent." He's famous for his drinking. Ukip enemies within (of which there have been many) minuted that he turned up for meetings smelling of alcohol and suggested he had a drink problem. Farage said yes, he enjoyed his drink but no, he did not regard it as a problem.

A stranger at the bar greets him cordially. Farage returns the compliment. "Keep the pound! Absolutely sir! Very good. Very good! Absolutely. Hello, two Landlord please."

He suggests we go outside so he can smoke. Most Ukip members seem to smoke – probably on principle as much as anything. He sits down, sups his pint, licks his lips, lights his Hamlet. "Terrible legislation, not to have the choice on smoking. Why all the pubs are closing. Terrible. So, what are you after?" He resembles two distinct television characters – when he does the military precision schtick he could be Captain Mainwaring in Dad's Army. At other times, with his camp elongated vowels ("ooooh, noooooooah!") he comes over all Frankie Howerd.

Farage grew up in London. His father was a stockbroker, his mother came from a family of senior policemen. He attended a private school, Dulwich college, and says it was a wonderful mix of colours and social classes (many of the boys had won free scholarships). Farage calls it a perfect example of integration. Just down the road, though, when he was 16, he witnessed an example of imperfect integration – the Brixton riots terrified him. "It was the breakdown of law and order. Actually, my school was used as the police HQ. I did think then if you allow things to happen on too great a scale too quickly, it will lead to problems, and to some extent we have seen that. Enoch touched on that."

When I ask him who his political hero is, he instantly cites Powell, the rightwing Conservative who made the famous speech about immigration anticipating "rivers of blood". "Enoch Powell was an extraordinary fellow. I admired him for having the guts to talk about an issue that seemed to be to be really rather important – immigration, society, how do we want to live in this country."

Farage didn't bother with university – he was an aspiring Thatcherite, desperate to make his fortune. "It's all happening, buzzing, yuppy time. They're all making a load of money. I've got to get in there. I can't wait till I'm 22, I'll be an old man by then."

He became a metals trader then set up his own business. In his early 20s he had a scare with testicular cancer but recovered. At 24, he was married and a father.

Farage, now 45, anticipated a life of markets and golf, but in 1990 Britain joined the European exchange rate mechanism, and he was never the same again. "I immediately went into full rant mode." Three years later he became a founder member of Ukip, in 1999 he was elected to the European parliament and in 2006 he became the party's leader.

He looks at today's privileged Tories with disgust and says he cannot believe it is the party he grew up with. "It's odd seeing a Conservative party in which somebody like Norman Tebbit could rise as a party that's almost gone back to the Macmillan era."

Tebbit recently suggested that we should not vote for the three major parties in the European elections. Is he now a signed-up member of Ukip? "No. He's said what he's said, which took some courage, but they haven't kicked him out, which he wouldn't want. It was very helpful."

I ask Farage if Ukip has its equivalent of Tebbit's cricket test – in 1990 Tebbit suggested immigrants could not show loyalty to Britain till they supported the England cricket team. Farage says that is outdated, and would prefer to flip the question. He mentions the five black and Asian candidates who have just stood for Ukip, and of whom he is inordinately proud. "They've all said the same thing – "We made a conscious decision to come to this country because we thought it had certain values and we're bringing our kids up to be British."

How useful have these non-white candidates been to him?

"Well look, when a new political movement emerges that appears to be patriotic, the assumption is that it must carry with it travellers who come from a pretty extreme disposition." Because it's been true? "Yes, oh quite right, yes absolutely. And I think to have people like this as candidates, I think we almost don't need to comment on it."

But Ukip has not wholly escaped being tarred with the BNP brush. Last November, former tennis player Buster Mottram tried to broker a deal between the two parties. "They do it all he time," Farage says. "All the time. They try to give the impression there's some level of communication going on between us knowing if that gets out our reasonable middle-class supporters will run away in droves. It's a deliberate tactic."

He stresses that Ukip and the BNP couldn't be more different – Ukip are libertarian and would legalise pretty much everything, the BNP are a hang 'em and flog 'em party. A vote for Ukip, he says, is a vote for flat income tax (and no tax for those earning less than the minimum wage averaged over a year), grammar schools, smoking, small government, and of course two fat fingers to Europe. "Being totally intertwined with European partners, socially economically, politically, makes no sense."

As it happens, Farage's own life could not be more intertwined with a European partner. His second wife, Kirsten, a former banker who now helps with Ukip, is German. I ask if their two young children are bilingual. "Isabelle is too young, but Victoria is, yes. Very much so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great, that's fine. You are not going to find some anti-foreigner little Englander."

Would Kirsten have been allowed to live here if he'd had his way on immigration? "Yes, because she got a job here in the city working for a German bank. She would have come on a work permit, of course." He doesn't mention what would have happened when the permit ran out. Ukip's line on immigration is not as finely honed as it might be – it seems to run along the lines of no more foreigners unless they're EU outcasts, friends, wives or really clever/rich.

A word he uses time and again to describe politicians in the mainstream parties is "ghastly", and he doesn't hold back on his fellow leaders. Gordon Brown? "Dead man walking. Humourless. I don't like him." Nick Clegg? "Technocrat." David Cameron? "He doesn't believe in a damn thing other than he wants the keys to No 10."

Farage's mobile rings. He sounds thrilled. "Bloody marvellous! We're going to get a recommendation from the Sun. From Kelvin [Mackenzie, the paper's ex-editor]. He's going to back us." How important is that? "Very. Because he's a bloke who speaks straight and a lot of people read that column."

Does he think it's funny that Ukip will benefit from the expenses scandal? "They won't vote for us on that basis. They'll vote because they agree with our policies." What about his own £2m claim? "That's just cobblers. It's a misquote. We don't get expenses as MEPs, we get fixed-sum allowances, and 75% of that has been spent on the employment of staff."

But surely he has a responsibility to claim excessively just to show what a corrupt system it is? He grins, like a wide-mouthed frog. "I know. Which I did in the early days. I used the travel profit to back a bloke who was selling beef on the bone, all sorts of things. They came down on me like a ton of bricks."

In 2006, it was Kirsten who came down heavily on him when the tabloids published a story about his liaison with a woman called Liga from Latvia, claiming he begged her "to get MaaSTRICHT" with him during sex. At the time, Farage admitted to falling asleep at her house but nothing more. "Oh that," he says today. "It was all a bit of an error." The indiscretions of late youth? "No, just sheer stupidity."

Why have Ukip been so ridden with scandal? Inevitable, he says. "It always is when you have a small organisation that is essentially a bottom-up party. You will always get people who come in and fancy their chances of personal glory or come in from other organisations to cause maximum trouble. Yes we've suffered horribly with it, but we've won pretty much hands-down."

How has he dealt with corruption? "Ruthlessly." He makes a loud gesture of washing his hands. "You're gone. Goodbye."

Meanwhile, head of communications and convicted fraudster Page arrives at the pub to tell him it's time to go. And now Farage is merrily chatting to another man. "Vote the right way," he says.

Who was that? "A friend's brother. Policeman. Anti-terrorist squad. Yep, he's voting Ukip."

Page concurs. "This is a Scotland Yard pub, and I tell you what – the Yard is voting Ukip."

Farage is certainly different from most British politicians. Who else would happily admit to visiting lapdancing clubs? "I don't go to lapdancing clubs," he protests for once. "I have been to lapdancing clubs. So what?" Why wouldn't other leaders admit to it? "Because they don't want to be criticised – they're living in this PC world and nobody must admit to being human. They're all purer than pure. Well, I'm not."

So has Mrs Farage put her foot down and outlawed the lapdancers? He looks at me disbelievingly, his face reddening, his pride hurt. "Noooooooooah. Noooooooooah. 'Course not. 'Course not. I've been rather busy these last few years."

[kidlewis]

Hannan was awesome last night, I only hope his popularity increases over the next 10 months and the conservatives can do nothing but listen to him and his ideals. He appears to be far more libertarian than many of the other conservative MP's and he stands for referendums and getting as many laws and regulations out of Brussels that don't really need to be there. I am a fan of economic unity, it can only breed stability in that case. What is really hate is the idea of social laws being conceived in Brussels and put in place across europe. It is bound to fail and no wonder people are getting pissed off with it.

Social laws are down to the country's parliament and moreso the local district councils, it's really the only thing that really worries me about the EU. They essentially want to turn is into one big unified state. Which unfortunately is more likely than Israel merging with Palestine (but just as tricky).

The main issue with politics is no one can get their figures right and they can get a different figure about the same statistic just by interpretating the data differently. Like on question time when Farage said 75% of our laws come from the EU, then Hannan said 84% of our laws have a base that begins from the EU. Then Flint comes out and says some "independent" panel looked at this and found only 9% of our laws has an EU base. WHAT THE ****!? only one can be right surely? or NONE!

Statistics and politics are irrelevant when they are posed together for me now. If a politician throws a stat at me I won't take it on board other than to realise it's probably not exactly truthful. What I look for are case studies to prove some legislation works, not a stat. 'Crime has gone down in certain areas' yeah because according to my bobby mates certain crimes have been 'reclassified' so no wonder things like burglaries are down because what actually constitues as burglary has changed.

Ideally we need someone to come in and pick the best politicians from each party and flush the rest down the toilet.

I have read into Hannan quite a bit and whilst he isn't perfect (the whole 'Icelands econonomy is awesome') and likening the Lisbon Treaty to the enabling act of 1933 (although significant similarities), he does stand for giving power back to the people, with more decisions at local levels, referendums and plenty more things that I totally agree with. Government is too centralised in London and unforunately the further away from London you are, the less you get.

Fortunately (as I think Tony you pointed out to me), Birmingham and areas in the Midlands have benefited from EU distributed money, But I think Hannans Ideal is that local councils should be given more funding within this country to do so anyway rather than relying on the EU to do it for us.

I voted conservative but most of my decision was based on the fact that Daniel Hannan appears to be the one MEP who is closest to what I want from governement, unfortunately until he gets more air time and more people listening to him, the conservatives won't be doing that.

[Rodders]

regaridng thos statistics, worth a read:

http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2230

[The_Steve]

Whilst it's published by the Lib Dems the most pro-Europe it's pretty damning of UKIP.

UKIP's claim that membership of the EU costs Britain £14 billion a year is absolute nonsense. They have conveniently excluded both the British rebate, which last year came to £4.2 billion, and the funding Britain received from the EU, which totalled £5.9 billion. The truth is that Britain's net-contribution to the EU last year was only £3.6 billion, which was 0.6% of total public spending. To try and fool British voters, UKIP have exaggerated the cost of the UK being in the EU by over £10 billion a year. Catherine Bearder commented: "I'm not surprised by these figures because we've come to expect these sorts of libellous claims from UKIP. They're a party that has no credibility when it comes to European issues because they consistently attempt to mislead the British public. Despite what UKIP think, voters are not taken in by this sort of cheap and crude manipulation."

"Their record in Brussels further illustrates the lack of respect UKIP have for voters. UKIP MEPs have an appalling attendance record at Parliament, they fail to work hard to achieve the best for their constituents, and many are embroiled in shadowy financial dealings. It is shocking that one in every six UKIP MEPs has faced criminal charges ranging from falsely claiming benefits and false accounting to money laundering."

"I fully support Ed Davey's call for UKIP MEPs to publish their expenses. UKIP have unashamedly fought hard against bringing transparency to the EU but the public have a right to know where the money has gone."

Alan Beddow also posts a similar story here with sources.

Cost of EU membership posted here

[Richard]

I am ashamed that this country has racist reepresentation in Europe, especially given the historical importance of this weekend.

[Santa_Rosa]

Well said Richard. Makes me feel sick to be honest. Hopefully the exposure will show these fascist idiots up enough to put people off ever voting for them again. Get them on QT I say.

[privateer]

Hannan was awesome last night,

Well he certainly made me snigger with his Dr Seuss adaption.

Dr Seuss