Bollitics: Local & Euro Elections 2009

[mjmooney]

People who watch QT probably don't vote BNP anyway (UKIP, maybe).

BNP voters get their political information from posters, The Sun/Star/Sport, and word of mouth down the pub.

OK, I'm stereotyping, but it's essentially true.

[Santa_Rosa]

True Mike, but a proper pasting on national TV is bound to filter down even to the pond life.

[tonyh29]

in 2003 Britain's annual cash rebate was £2 bn

In 2005, Tony Blair agreed to cut the UK's rebate from the European Union's budget by around 20 per cent (when he surrended to the French ..oh the irony of surrendering to the Surrender monkeys)

So not sure where the £4.2 bn a year figure is coming from ( well actually I do as these figures are counting the Common Agricultural Policy rebate but fudging it to suit their argument ..)

[Dale]

Whilst it's published by the Lib Dems the most pro-Europe it's pretty damning of UKIP.

UKIP's claim that membership of the EU costs Britain £14 billion a year is absolute nonsense. They have conveniently excluded both the British rebate, which last year came to £4.2 billion, and the funding Britain received from the EU, which totalled £5.9 billion. The truth is that Britain's net-contribution to the EU last year was only £3.6 billion, which was 0.6% of total public spending. To try and fool British voters, UKIP have exaggerated the cost of the UK being in the EU by over £10 billion a year. Catherine Bearder commented: "I'm not surprised by these figures because we've come to expect these sorts of libellous claims from UKIP. They're a party that has no credibility when it comes to European issues because they consistently attempt to mislead the British public. Despite what UKIP think, voters are not taken in by this sort of cheap and crude manipulation."

"Their record in Brussels further illustrates the lack of respect UKIP have for voters. UKIP MEPs have an appalling attendance record at Parliament, they fail to work hard to achieve the best for their constituents, and many are embroiled in shadowy financial dealings. It is shocking that one in every six UKIP MEPs has faced criminal charges ranging from falsely claiming benefits and false accounting to money laundering."

"I fully support Ed Davey's call for UKIP MEPs to publish their expenses. UKIP have unashamedly fought hard against bringing transparency to the EU but the public have a right to know where the money has gone."

Alan Beddow also posts a similar story here with sources.

Cost of EU membership posted here

I thought that they tried to add on figures of how much EU regulation costs businesses per year as well, conveniently forgetting the fact that we don't have any tariffs to pay because of our membership. They are essentially con-artists.

[Awol]

They are essentially con-artists.

They are ALL con artists!

The Lib Dems did pretty shit considering, didn't they? If they can't clear up when most of the country wants the governing party in court, you've got to wonder if their message on Europe is really supported by the public.

The results suggest not.

[kidlewis]

regaridng thos statistics, worth a read:

http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2230

does go to show how bullshit most political statistics are.

[The_Steve]

They are essentially con-artists.

They are ALL con artists!

The Lib Dems did pretty shit considering, didn't they? If they can't clear up when most of the country wants the governing party in court, you've got to wonder if their message on Europe is really supported by the public.

The results suggest not.

"The turnout, with Northern Ireland yet to declare, is around a third of the vote, down 4% from 2004"

So not quite the majority view if it was largely a protest vote against mainstream politics and Europe.

[Clarry]

People who watch QT probably don't vote BNP anyway (UKIP, maybe).

BNP voters get their political information from posters, The Sun/Star/Sport, and word of mouth down the pub. OK, I'm stereotyping, but it's essentially true.

It is essentially true. The amount of times I hear that the Irish, Scots etc. are "allowed" to celebrate their national day, but the English aren't is unbelievable.

I can't remember the last time I was banned from having a pint on St George's day. Or the last time all the Irish etc. were given a day off from work for St Patrick's Day.

[Awol]

They are essentially con-artists.

They are ALL con artists!

The Lib Dems did pretty shit considering, didn't they? If they can't clear up when most of the country wants the governing party in court, you've got to wonder if their message on Europe is really supported by the public.

The results suggest not.

"The turnout, with Northern Ireland yet to declare, is around a third of the vote, down 4% from 2004"

So not quite the majority view if it was largely a protest vote against mainstream politics and Europe.

Quite so, but you can only analyse the votes cast surely? As you say yourself it may have been a protest vote against Europe, which backs up my original point that the Lib Dems are barking up the wrong tree over the EU.

Oh, and the murderers have taken the first seat in N. Ireland. Those scum are at least on a par with the BNP.

Edit: speeling

[Rodders]

being pro EU is fairly unpopular at the moment, so I wouldn't expect them to do well at a time when corruption, protests and insular mentalities are seemingly in the ascendancy. An increase in Lib Dem votes would have been spectacular, so to remain fairly steady as Charles Kennedy claimed is quite a decent result.

[kidlewis]

People who watch QT probably don't vote BNP anyway (UKIP, maybe).

BNP voters get their political information from posters, The Sun/Star/Sport, and word of mouth down the pub. OK, I'm stereotyping, but it's essentially true.

It is essentially true. The amount of times I hear that the Irish, Scots etc. are "allowed" to celebrate their national day, but the English aren't is unbelievable.

I can't remember the last time I was banned from having a pint on St George's day. Or the last time all the Irish etc. were given a day off from work for St Patrick's Day.

It's not true at all, it's merely because St Paddy's day has become a money making scheme. clearings in the woods running around in 4 leaf clover guiness hats saying "woohoo st. Patricks day" when the closest thing they have gotten to Irishness is those skinless sausages you buy in supermarkets. Richmonds is it?

It's a joke.

The reason why St. Georges Day isn't celebrated is because there is nothing to focus on. It's not like we can get dressed up in Crusader gear and go fight dragons is it? Yes we can all have roast beef and watch Bridge over the River Qwai and perhaps have Eton mess for pudding but essentially there isn't a tradition of celebrating it no?

I think all we can do is have parties on St. Georges day and go out on the piss, because lets face it that is all St. Patricks day is about now. Guiness, Irish hats and other peripheral rubbish and perhaps an Irish Stew as a special of the day down the local pub.

St. Georges day has never been Banned!, it's just the majority of people don't unite to celebrate it.

[kidlewis]

the fact the BNP got in is a shame because now it will enable the other far right parties (didn't BBC some czech repub party got in?) to club together and cause a rucus.

As long as we don't have this shitty Lisbon Treaty in place and the conservatives stick to their guns and have a referendum then we will be alright I think.

And Tony, I do remember Blair backing down to the french because they were kicking off our farmers were getting such large subsidies were they not?

[Santa_Rosa]

Or the last time all the Irish etc. were given a day off from work for St Patrick's Day.

I take your point Clarry and, of course, you're right. The old Winterval banning Christmas one is a classic. But...

...the Irish do get St Patricks day off. It's a public holiday accross all of Ireland. My ex's N.I family used to give me some right stick about it.

The fact that this kind of thing upsets people to the point of voting for fascists speaks volumes for the intellect of the people putting their ticks in the boxes.

[Awol]

being pro EU is fairly unpopular at the moment, so I wouldn't expect them to do well at a time when corruption, protests and insular mentalities are seemingly in the ascendancy.

Slightly off topic but one thing I don't get is why people support our membership of an undemocratic institution that hasn't even had it's own accounts signed off for 14 years because it is so corrupt? Have we all just been going mad about corruption in our Parliament or did I imagine that? Why then is the Euro gravy train seen as some sacred cow? (Genuine question by the way)

I think people are sick of politicians taking the piss out of us and Labour, Conservative and the Lib Dems are all culpable. They are now reaping what they've sown imo.

[kidlewis]

being pro EU is fairly unpopular at the moment, so I wouldn't expect them to do well at a time when corruption, protests and insular mentalities are seemingly in the ascendancy.

Slightly off topic but one thing I don't get is why people support our membership of an undemocratic institution that hasn't even had it's own accounts signed off for 14 years because it is so corrupt? Have we all just been going mad about corruption in our Parliament or did I imagine that? Why then is the Euro gravy train seen as some sacred cow? (Genuine question by the way)

I think people are sick of politicians taking the piss out of us and Labour, Conservative and the Lib Dems are all culpable. They are now reaping what they've sown imo.

like with most things the minority gets the most press. The MP's involved in the expenses scandals are the minority (albeit an ever increasing one), just like the hooligans in various football clubs. They get the attention because they are shits.

What we need is to ideally disolve parliament and then just pick the best MP's that we have left and start again.

[Risso]

being pro EU is fairly unpopular at the moment, so I wouldn't expect them to do well at a time when corruption, protests and insular mentalities are seemingly in the ascendancy.

Slightly off topic but one thing I don't get is why people support our membership of an undemocratic institution that hasn't even had it's own accounts signed off for 14 years because it is so corrupt? Have we all just been going mad about corruption in our Parliament or did I imagine that? Why then is the Euro gravy train seen as some sacred cow? (Genuine question by the way)

That's a very, very good question. If the EU were a company, all the directors would have been thrown in prison for fraud by now.

[Jez]

Have Labour lost seats to the BNP?

Have the really got a chance at the next election, even with the Tories having a weak leader?

Whoever gets in would rather it was someone other than Labour, time for a change.

[Santa_Rosa]

Have Labour lost seats to the BNP?

Yes. And it's not funny.

Whoever gets in would rather it was someone other than Labour, time for a change.

Agreed, within reason.

[Awol]

Frank Field has now come out against Brown in addition to Charile Falkener and Jane Kennedy earlier.

From his website today: "Don't let anyone kid themselves that this was an unimportant election where voters felt they could make a clear protest vote. Unless something changes significantly on a national level these results would be reproduced at a general election.

Labour cannot win with the present Prime Minister. I was one of the seven who would not support his coronation after Tony Blair was shoehorned out of Number 10. But even I didn't think a Brown administration would be as inept as this one.

The Brownites are attempting to terrorise Labour MPs into inaction. If they succeed then we deserve our fate.

It is simply absurd to argue, as does No. 10, that the next leader must call an immediate general election. A new leader, when being invited by the Queen to form a government, should inform the Monarch that he or she intends to return in April of next year to call for a General Election on May 6.

The new Prime Minister would make that a part of a message brought back from the Palace.

Similarly, the failure to deal with immigration and Europe is poisoning our political system. I have set out in the Balanced Migration campaign how we should counter positively the BNP. Similarly, we need to cut loose European politics from our domestic politics. Voters have no party to represent their worries on this score, only the BNP with their evil interests."

He's probably the most sensible guy in the PLP imo.

[bickster]

Have Labour lost seats to the BNP?

Thats about as funny as the holocaust.

Labour should be ashamed of themselves, taking their party and its supporters so far to the right on the political scale that its makes the transition from Labour to BNP such an easy one for working class fucktards to make