Juju Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 To be honest, its quite easy to see why people vote for the BNP. Example. - A couple of weeks ago, I took a train down to sunny Brighton for the day, jsut to sit on a beach and chill out. As I wandered through the main shopping area, some earnest middle class hippy was handing out leaflets and mumbling "stop the BNP" at everyone that passed. And it suddenly occurred to me, that this drippy woman had never even considered the motif that "all publicity is good publicity". In a place like Brighton, theres virtually nil support for far right parties. However, this woman was simply reciting "stop the BNP" over and over again. All she was doing was "publicising" them. Makking out theres a genuine issue with them. She wasn't saying what "she stood for", she had no "positive message" herself, just an insistance on preventing a legitimate democratic process from working, and bringing the name of the BNP to everyones attention. People who might then go home, and google for themselves, and then be taken in by slickly written headlines from their site. - I dont want to see an electable BNP in my lifetime, but I object to being told who I can and can't vote for in a free secret ballot. In a way, isn't the message that "we should stop these parties from taking part in a free electorial vote", worse for freedom than anything the BNP appear to stand for? Drippy hippy woman probably did more harm to her cause than if she'd stayed in bed. Its also not enough to keep writing them off as "odious politics", without an understanding of where their support is comming from. What really worries me, is if they started to take a "pragmatic view" of rascism and immigration, stopped spouting about "indigenous peoples", and simply said that those with foreign passports can get a free flight home and that yhe UK should enforce border policy strictly, that they would begin to start sounding vaguely electable (unless you spend a couple fo seconds actually talking to the kind of people who canvass for them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowles Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 The people of Britain are starting now to get fed up of being treated like fools. I am a white British man and proud of that, as are many other nations etc !! Theres **** all wrong with that regardless of what the loony left say. Wether the BNP are right or wrong isn't the whole point here, they have a definate right to stand up for there beliefs as do all the other parties. This is meant to be a democracy yet it seems to only work that way for those in power !! The crooks that have been bleeding our country dry for years now have to sit up and listen, they've been getting away with murder for too long. Treating us like idoits White and Black I might add !! Yes a party like the BNP has history and current issues to address but its the hypocracy from all the others that drives me mad !! Its possible for Tory / Lab MP's to commit acts of perversion and deception and reinvent themselves ?? Its possible for IRA commanders to commit acts of murder etc and reinvent themselves ?? What is the difference ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 8, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted June 8, 2009 The people of Britain are starting now to get fed up of being treated like fools. I am a white British man and proud of that, as are many other nations etc !! Theres **** all wrong with that regardless of what the loony left say. Wether the BNP are right or wrong isn't the whole point here, they have a definate right to stand up for there beliefs as do all the other parties. This is meant to be a democracy yet it seems to only work that way for those in power !! The crooks that have been bleeding our country dry for years now have to sit up and listen, they've been getting away with murder for too long. Treating us like idoits White and Black I might add !! Yes a party like the BNP has history and current issues to address but its the hypocracy from all the others that drives me mad !! Its possible for Tory / Lab MP's to commit acts of perversion and deception and reinvent themselves ?? Its possible for IRA commanders to commit acts of murder etc and reinvent themselves ?? What is the difference ??? If you're trying to suggest that the BNP are changing the ways, in the same way that other people in politics reinvent themselves, you'd be wrong. All they've done is hidden what they stand for beneath a suit and whacked anti-immigration to the fore of their policies, preying on the ill feeling of the common man, along with rampant islamophobia. Look beyond the PR crap, beyond the leaflets and the speeches you hear about, and it's the same old racist nationalists, all used to be in the NF, all still believe it. And if you vote for them, you vote for fascism, and racism, and everything they stand for. Don't be fooled into thinking they've changed, they've not. They've just got better at the publicity game and taken advantage of other parties letting them have an easy ride to power. I don't think any party has ever stopped you being proud of being a white British man, and I don't think the 'Loony left' minds if you feel that way either, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 8, 2009 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2009 The people of Britain are starting now to get fed up of being treated like fools. I am a white British man and proud of that, as are many other nations etc !! Theres **** all wrong with that regardless of what the loony left say. Wether the BNP are right or wrong isn't the whole point here, they have a definate right to stand up for there beliefs as do all the other parties. This is meant to be a democracy yet it seems to only work that way for those in power !! The crooks that have been bleeding our country dry for years now have to sit up and listen, they've been getting away with murder for too long. Treating us like idoits White and Black I might add !! Yes a party like the BNP has history and current issues to address but its the hypocracy from all the others that drives me mad !! Its possible for Tory / Lab MP's to commit acts of perversion and deception and reinvent themselves ?? Its possible for IRA commanders to commit acts of murder etc and reinvent themselves ?? What is the difference ??? An education? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowles Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 its just an opinion of mine i have seen and dealt with the problems of mass immigration first hand and our memebrship in the EU one of the root causes....just ask the germans about turkish immigration anf the problems they have faced...:oops: Up The Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 8, 2009 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2009 Yes because the root of the problems we and most countries face at the moment is all down to immigration isn't it? World economy is up shit creek because there's too many people with slightly darker skin than you being allowed into the UK, yep that's it, how did I never realise it before? Thank-you for you inspiteful debate, you've convinced me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sled Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 You've just coined an interesting word there, inspiteful. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I reckon he did it on porpoise ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 8, 2009 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2009 I liked it too , still wondering what an idoit is though, any ideas? Is it a special kind of idiot? (and yes it was deliberate) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowles Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Yes because the root of the problems we and most countries face at the moment is all down to immigration isn't it? World economy is up shit creek because there's too many people with slightly darker skin than you being allowed into the UK, yep that's it, how did I never realise it before? Thank-you for you inspiteful debate, you've convinced me Im as much opposed to masses of the White Polish population coming here as lets say people from africa or Asia or anywhere for that matter so your argument over skin colour is ridiculous :bonk: Up The Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sled Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Oh well that's fine then! EDIT: A comment on Knowles's post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I love immigrants.......I AM one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 8, 2009 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2009 Yep, fancy all those nasty Polish blokes coming here and stealing our jobs and marrying our women, its not like you saw them flying Spitfires in the war is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 8, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted June 8, 2009 Funnily enough, we had amongst the least strict measures on immigration from the Eastern European states when they joined, and we did amongst the best out of it, they became fairly vital to our economy (I've got the exact figures around somewhere, had it for an essay). And also funnily enough, the vast majority of them seem to be doing jobs that no-one else wants to do, like cleaning. As well as that, I seem to remember reading a journal that claimed that the numbers that came over were nowhere near as bad as expected, and better yet, thanks to EU law, you're perfectly at rights to bugger off to some other EU nation if you don't like it here and work there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 8, 2009 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2009 The people of Britain are starting now to get fed up of being treated like fools. I don't think that's true - it's not being treated like fools that is the problem, it's (to my reading) the double standards, lying, dishonesty and lack of "listening" to the will of people that's the problem. Also the kind of lack of democracy in the process within parliament - too much vested career interest preventing MPs from doing what they should do if they followed their consciences more. I am a white British man and proud of that, ... Theres **** all wrong with that regardless of what the loony left say. I don't think anyone has said there's anything wrong with that, form any part of the spectrum. Wether the BNP are right or wrong isn't the whole point here, they have a definate right to stand up for there beliefs as do all the other parties. This is meant to be a democracy yet it seems to only work that way for those in power !! The crooks that have been bleeding our country dry for years now have to sit up and listen, they've been getting away with murder for too long. Treating us like idoits White and Black I might add !! I half agree - the only bit I don't agree with is that it is important whether the BNP are right or wrong - because as much as I sympathise with wanting people to sit up and listen, voting from the BNP, a nasty racist, negative, divisive party might get them to listen to the wrong message - might they not, the main parties, try and edge towards the BNPs nastiness and more discriminatory aims, in order to retrieve votes? ..Yes a party like the BNP has history and current issues to address but its the hypocracy from all the others that drives me mad !! Its possible for Tory / Lab MP's to commit acts of perversion and deception and reinvent themselves ?? Its possible for IRA commanders to commit acts of murder etc and reinvent themselves ?? What is the difference ??? There is a difference. When a politician of any party says one thing, but means another, or intends to follow a different path that is lying to us, it's dishonest and deceitful. That applies to the BNP and it has applied to previous and current Governments. That is however different from genuinely changing you beliefs after gaining experience - whether that be someone for example changing views on sanctions on Iraq, or South Africa in the past, or changing views and policies on global warming due to new evidence, or whether it be someone like Sinn Fein deciding that they wanted to engage with the peace process following other parties (UK GOv't and Irish Gov't) changing the opportunities available to them. BNP hasn't changed, but they've changed the way they try and get people to vote for them. On the democracy point, I agree, if people like what they stand for, then they should be free to vote for them, the worry is that people don't actually know what they really stand for but still vote for them. Someone earlier in this thread said "I voted for them, even though I don't agree with most of their ideas" - to me that kind of behaviour suggests that sometimes you can't blame politicians for taking us for idiots. If we vote for things we don't agree with, vote for parties we don't like, what's the point of it all, what's the point of asking us? Surely if you don't like (say) the Tories expenses thing then you'd be better off voting for the next nearest party to them on their policies, or an independent candidate. Same applies for Labour - maybe vote Green or Socialist, or whatever, but BNP. Good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Some good points in that post, Pete, particularly this: Someone earlier in this thread said "I voted for them, even though I don't agree with most of their ideas" - to me that kind of behaviour suggests that sometimes you can't blame politicians for taking us for idiots. If we vote for things we don't agree with, vote for parties we don't like, what's the point of it all, what's the point of asking us? To some extent this explains why I don't vote, have never voted and would envisage it being distinctly unlikely that I will ever vote. Though I understand the concept of tactical voting and why some will be moved to vote in a particular way either to prevent something happening or to say that they disagree with something, I cannot bring myself to vote negatively. Were I ever to put my cross next to a name or even, he'en forfend, a party, it would only be because I wished to signify my support for that person/groupand the ideas they propounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 its not like you saw them flying Spitfires in the war is it I didn't know you were old enough to have seen that bicks! Seriously though, I have no problem with people that fought for this country coming over here to live, they deserve it. But just because your country did, it shouldn't give you the automatic right to abode. Immigration should be based on what is best for our country, not where people are from. Someone from poland should have no more right to live here than people from any other country, it should be based on what they can offer our economy, skilled workers from anywhere should be welcomed, and piss taking benefit beggers turned away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 8, 2009 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2009 The Spitfire comment was more to do with a certain BNP leaflet with a Spitfire on it, the Spitfire in question, symbol of Britishness and resistance in the face of adversity etc was a Spitfire from a Polish Squadron :nod: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undesirable Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 its not like you saw them flying Spitfires in the war is it Immigration should be based on what is best for our country.....it should be based on what they can offer our economy, skilled workers from anywhere should be welcomed, and piss taking benefit beggers turned away. Here's the problem. What's good for our economy isn't necessarily good for us. You can have property owners making millions but thousands homeless, you can have energy companies making millions but hundreds of thousands out of work, you can have manufacturing company shareholdres making billions because they're using low paid labour. The economy doesn't always benefit us because we live in a system whereby the wealth our labour creates is taken by others who give us back a tiny amount of what we make in the form of a wage. People come here from Poland, Somalia and Estonia because we have a relatively high standard of living and better wages than the countries they come from. They're basically looking for the same thing as us, what's important is that we stand together as a class of people as opposed to saying that people whould only be allowed in if an employer can make use of them. There's also the fact that many people migrate to flee war and famine, are we supposed to give them numeracy and literacy tests before they enter and then send them back if their motor skills aren't up to working in a box factory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabadgeman Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 [ If you're trying to suggest that the BNP are changing the ways, in the same way that other people in politics reinvent themselves, you'd be wrong. All they've done is hidden what they stand for beneath a suit and whacked anti-immigration to the fore of their policies, preying on the ill feeling of the common man, along with rampant islamophobia. Look beyond the PR crap, beyond the leaflets and the speeches you hear about, and it's the same old racist nationalists, all used to be in the NF, all still believe it. And if you vote for them, you vote for fascism, and racism, and everything they stand for. Don't be fooled into thinking they've changed, they've not. They've just got better at the publicity game and taken advantage of other parties letting them have an easy ride to power. I don't think any party has ever stopped you being proud of being a white British man, and I don't think the 'Loony left' minds if you feel that way either, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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