Chindie Posted February 18, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2009 I wouldn't be praying to be saved, I'd be praying to go up instead of down And I don't want to die with my cock in my hand! think of the potential for the head stone though?! Especially if you were a bit a bastard in later life. 'He was a rocket polisher to his last'. At least it'd make people chuckle while they were standing on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Got to go watch The Villa so enough with the debate, time for inflammatory pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuen_Biao Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 It is impossible to define God with mere words. When we move into the quietitude of a spiritual realm we can begin to understand true realisation and a higher consciousness. These are the first steps towards higher understanding. I am not religious, but I do believe in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 God Is Imaginary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The Ancient Hebrew name for God is YHWH..and you're quite correct without the vowels it's hard to know the exact pronunciation. . In the Hebrew language it is written .יהוה These four letters, called the Tetragrammaton (or literally meaning "having 4 letters") , are read from right to left in Hebrew and can be represented in many modern languages as YHWH or JHVH..... The divine name in the Tetragrammaton form actually appears 6,828 times in the Bible.... In many modern translations these letters are now replaced with " LORD"( in capitals), or "the Lord" or "Adonai" (Sovereign Lord). it could be Yahweh...or Jehovah or something slightly different, however my thinking on this is that the Romans/Greeks pronounced it Iova or Jehovah so presumably, they had heard this name spoken and said in the traditional manner from Jews and first century Christians.. Jehovah seems to be the more accepted pronunciation as shown in the following different languages given as examples:- Awabakal - Yehóa Bugotu - Jihova Cantonese - Yehwowah Danish - Jehova Dutch - Jehovah Efik - Jehovah English - Jehovah Fijian - Jiova Finnish - Jehova French - Jéhovah Futuna - Ihova German - Jehova Hungarian - Jehova Igbo - Jehova Italian - Geova Japanese - Ehoba Maori - Ihowa Motu - Iehova Mwala-Malu - Jihova Narrinyeri - Jehovah Nembe - Jihova Petats - Jihouva Polish - Jehowa Portuguese - Jeová Romanian - Iehova Samoan - Ieova Sotho - Jehova Spanish - Jehová Swahili - Yehova Swedish - Jehova Tahitian - Iehova Tagalog - Jehova Tongan - Jihova Venda - Yehova Xhosa - uYehova Yoruba - Jehofah Zulu - uJehova The shortened version of the divine name "Jah" is also used...such as in "Hallelu - Jah" However whatever you argue about pronunciation, nevertheless the Bible says God has a name and is a person. As for the meaning of the divine name ie the tetragrammaton YHWH is thought to be "He causes to become"...The name is a form of a Hebrew verb ha·wah′ )הוה meaning “to become,” Whatever anyone concludes for themselves is up to them...., I happen to believe there IS a Creator and he cares about the planet, it's future and mankind!.....if anyone wishes to say that I am any less well read or any less scientific because of that tenet, then so be it...we're all entitled to our opinion, i'm not going to take offence. Thats more of a language issue, though for some reason it confuses people who think that "only one religion can be right" means that only one god is right (and that others are wrong) when about four billion people, Christians, Jews and Muslims all believe in the same deity, and many of the same prophets, Moses being the obvious example I guess. Its like the word "Allah" which is simply the Arabic term for the English word "God". Its not specific to Islam at all, but takes more prominence in Islam because the Koran still exists in its original Arabic form and was never translated and changed in the way that the Bible was. That is why Muslims will learn some of the Arabic language, but that doesnt change that Arabic speaking people of other religions will refer to God as Allah, and as more people speak Arabic as their first language than speak French and German combined, I guess its quite a widespread thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 It is impossible to define God with mere words. When we move into the quietitude of a spiritual realm we can begin to understand true realisation and a higher consciousness. These are the first steps towards higher understanding. Can you explain exacly what you mean by this, as it isn't clear. How do we move into the spiritual realm, and where is that realm? What is true realisation and higher consciousness? High understanding of what - a supernatural being? Please expand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The Ancient Hebrew name for God is YHWH..and you're quite correct without the vowels it's hard to know the exact pronunciation. Hi Julie,A few pages back I asked you a question about your understanding of evolution and how you couldn't reconcile it with the complexity of nature. You've probably missed it - but I would be interested to hear your answer if you've got the time. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 they had heard this name spoken and said in the traditional manner from Jews and first century Christians.. . They wont have heard Gods name from the Jews, the Jews are forbidden from uttering it What happens is some Christian reads the scriptures, and doesnt understand the significance, doesnt understand that either the letters are just a metaphor, or a kind of heiroglyph, because no-one is allowed to utter the true name of God, - so YHWH is a bit like, erm, the phrase 'Word removed' on here. I know what it means, you know what it means, but no-one has to break the rules and say it I find it interesting that non-Jews follow Jesus' teachings, and study ancient Jewish culture and tradition. jesus himself seemed pretty adamant that he didnt care too much about non Jews, he was only preaching to the people of his own faith about the things they needed to do, now, quickly, before the end of the world came (which both peter and Paul are on record as saying they expected in their lifetime) and judgement day arrived. The reason he didnt preach to non jews is that non Jews were damned anyway as far as he was concerned. i still cant quite figure out how Paul did that trick. I cant figure out how he persuaded non Jews to follow this guy and believe he was the son of God, something Jesus never ever claimed, and no-one in fact claimed during his lifetime. even more than that, how he persuaded non Jews that the God of the Jews was the only God in town. he must have been quite a salesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 They wont have heard Gods name from the Jews, the Jews are forbidden from uttering it Not all Jews were forbidden to use God's name and Jesus and the 1st century Christians appear to have used the name also. In later times some of the Jewish hierarchy condemned people from using it though it's true. Why would God reveal his name to Abraham and have it used in the Bible almost 7,000 times if it was too sacred to use? Seems daft to me! interestingly enough....Jesus condemned the scribes and the Pharisees for making the word of God invalid and said their traditions and doctrines made them honour God with their lips, yet their heart was far removed from him. I find it interesting that non-Jews follow Jesus' teachings, and study ancient Jewish culture and tradition. jesus himself seemed pretty adamant that he didnt care too much about non Jews, he was only preaching to the people of his own faith about the things they needed to do, now, quickly, before the end of the world came (which both peter and Paul are on record as saying they expected in their lifetime) and judgement day arrived. The reason he didnt preach to non jews is that non Jews were damned anyway as far as he was concerned. i still cant quite figure out how Paul did that trick. I cant figure out how he persuaded non Jews to follow this guy and believe he was the son of God, something Jesus never ever claimed, and no-one in fact claimed during his lifetime. even more than that, how he persuaded non Jews that the God of the Jews was the only God in town. he must have been quite a salesman. Jesus DID indeed preach to non Jews. He was not supposed to talk to the Samaritan woman at the well..he preached to her just the same as anyone else. He made the point that the news he came to bear..... was a free gift to everyone. Jew or otherwise. It's in the Book of Mathew. What about the parable about the Samaritan lying on the road injured and that he was to be considered as a neighbour and aided just the same as anyone. The Jews hated people from Samaria. Didn't the curtain of the temple rip in two when Jesus died and wasn't that a sign that a sign of God's disapproval that Caiphas and the Jewish hierarchy had decided to have Jesus put to death at the hands of their Roman occupiers? Paul WAS a Jew (Saul) and a Roman citizen who condemned the Christians outright...he was even in attendance when Stephen was stoned. Once he converted he spoke to everyone about his faith, Jew, Greek, Roman whoever. There was indeed heated debate between the Jewish Christians about the Gentile Christians...did they need to be circumsized etc... However this was settled and Peter stated quite clearly in Acts "At this Peter opened his mouth and said: “For a certainty I perceive that God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I spent about 6 hours debating this, I cannot go on any longer. I am feeling tired from doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olejniker Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Does anyone remember that one religious thread we had with that guy from a cult ... Strong City or something. It was an awesome thread. Soap-ish at times ... oh the drama! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Why would God reveal his name to Abraham and have it used in the Bible almost 7,000 times if it was too sacred to use? Seems daft to me!. He didnt. What is in the bible is, as I said above, a metaphor for his name. his name was actually a closely guarded secret, known only to a select band of priests. He may have revealed his name to Abraham, but back pre Moses he was only a bog standard God, not an Elohim,and so may have been less picky about his name being known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 18, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2009 That was an epic thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Can we please move this thread on to something more important. I want to know if Noddy & Big Ears indulge in anal sex when the cameras are switched off. Can anyone please enlighten me.... or better yet has anyone got an photos?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Does anyone remember that one religious thread we had with that guy from a cult ... Strong City or something. It was an awesome thread. Soap-ish at times ... oh the drama! It's in the Hall of Fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Why would God reveal his name to Abraham and have it used in the Bible almost 7,000 times if it was too sacred to use? Seems daft to me!. He didnt. What is in the bible is, as I said above, a metaphor for his name. his name was actually a closely guarded secret, known only to a select band of priests. He may have revealed his name to Abraham, but back pre Moses he was only a bog standard God, not an Elohim,and so may have been less picky about his name being known .the Bible is written in Ancient Hebrew, which contained few Vowels...it is also written in Aramaic..and also common Greek Koine. George Howard of the University of Georgia wrote in Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 96, 1977, p. 63: “Recent discoveries in Egypt and the Judean Desert allow us to see first hand the use of God’s name in pre-Christian times. These discoveries are significant for N[ew] T[estament] studies in that they form a literary analogy with the earliest Christian documents and may explain how NT authors used the divine name. In the following pages we will set forth a theory that the divine name,( יהוה and possibly abbreviations of it), was originally written in the NT quotations of and allusions to the O[ld] T[estament] and that in the course of time it was replaced mainly with the surrogate ? [abbreviation for Ky′ri·os, “Lord”]. This removal of the Tetragram[maton], in our view, created a confusion in the minds of early Gentile Christians about the relationship between the ‘Lord God’ and the ‘Lord Christ’ which is reflected in the MS tradition of the NT text itself.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 18, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted February 18, 2009 Why would God reveal his name to Abraham and have it used in the Bible almost 7,000 times if it was too sacred to use? Seems daft to me!.You've got it in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Also, I would ask Jondaken this - What religion are you, and why are you right but all the other religions, that essentially amount to similar things when you get down to it (incomprehensible being(s) making the world and so on), are wrong? Is it because you just so happened to be brought up in a '________' household? Married into it? etc etc. Yea I was brought up a born again Christian. Got it mainly from my Dad who wasn't brought up a christian and got saved in his mid 20's. But no, I dont believe I followed like a sheep if that's what your getting at. I stopped going to church at 12, started going back at 18 when it kinda turned out to be the only thing that made sense to me, was that there must be a God. And yea, I do believe all other religions are wrong, else I'd be a pretty bad christian if I though otherwise. It's hard to explain this sort of stuff, not least over forum boards! Do you not also agree that if you had happened to be born in Saudi Arabia to devout Muslim parents you would most likely be a Muslim now instead? That must mean your god allows some souls enough exposure to Christianity to chose for themselves the 'right' religion but denies that of others born in the wrong place (or the wrong time). I do not know, because it never happened. There are lots of if's, but's and maybe's and im in no position to answer any of them in regard to my parallel life's. 1st of all, I'd be surprised if 90% of the world population had not head of the gospel at some point in their life. They have all had their chance to get to know more. Secondly, being brought up in a christian home does not mean you are going to be one. Not a single one of my school pals, who's parents are Christians, are Christians themselves now. As for those born in the "wrong place" or "wrong time", who do not know about the gospel, well, I assume God will deal with them on how they lived their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Does God give us free will so we could think for ourselves to believe in him or is it God's will and he has control over everything we do? because it's one or the other. It cannot be both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Does God give us free will so we could think for ourselves to believe in him or is it God's will and he has control over everything we do? because it's one or the other. It cannot be both. The 1st one. God doesn't have control over anything we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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