Do you believe in God ?

[kidlewis]

Psalms 33:8-9: Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. For he spoke, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Sounds like something someone would make up, then pretend to be pally with him, then use it to control the unwitting masses. Hang on a minute...

K, we evolved from frogs.

This is why you cannot debate with a theist.

Of course we didn't evolve from frogs, and NO ONE will claim that we did. Just like no one will claim we evolved from Chimpanzees (we just share common ancestors with them).

Funnily though, us evolving from frogs is still less crazy than "THERE'S A MAGIC MAN IN THE SKY THAT MADE US ALL!"

Ive been debating for almost 3 hours with out the use of throw away sarcastic comments. Its 1am, I make a single comment like that, and you jump on my back saying I'm unable to hold a debate?

Get out.

O and by the way. yes I am more willing to believe in "A MAGIC MAN" as you delicately put it than evolution being a process of "chance upon chance upon chance".

That's a fair point, but you cannot completely deny that chance exists? otherwise you are telling me that the game "Snap" doesn't exist.

There is the possibility that a chain of coincidences led to us being here. Chaos Theory might be a theory, but it is plausable, no matter how ridiculous you may think it is. I am on the belief that it is more plausable than there being a single being of somethingness that created everything as we know it. You just seem to be on the other side of the fence.

And you must have argued your case very well because I can see why you believe in a god and why you believe he created everything. Obviously you do not need to justify your faith to yourself but to me you needed to because I wanted to see how you can justify his existence. And to be fair you have done that.

I just cannot empathise with your logic.

Some people think you are deluded or stupid because of your belief. Not me, I am not a hardcore atheist and think all believers are dumb.

I just cannot see MYSELF ever believing in a god.

You seem to hold a debate very well and seem a very balanced individual. Don't worry about the people that have had a go at any of your sarcastic comments, you have had plenty thrown at you and you coped well.

I always treat these kind of debates as a sort of duel. There can be no real agreement of conclusion between the two sides, more of an understanding of each others opinion on the debate.

This is probably a quillianth of the debate that has gone on for a fair few years now and will go on long after we are gone.

Was a good one, although the next time some chump starts this discussion, have the decency to stay around for the debate. Jesus, the dude that started this caused one monster debate.

I think we have one of the most in depth, busy and awesome fans forum out of any club. By an absolute mile.

We differ and agree on many different issues, some which are very in depth and sometimes very heated. But know at the end of it all I can probably still shake your hand and have a beer with you and go on to talk about something completely different like Cheryl Tweedy's lovely snatch.

[TheDon]

Ive been debating for almost 3 hours with out the use of throw away sarcastic comments. Its 1am, I make a single comment like that, and you jump on my back saying I'm unable to hold a debate?

Get out.

O and by the way. yes I am more willing to believe in "A MAGIC MAN" as you delicately put it than evolution being a process of "chance upon chance upon chance".

Except you haven't debated, you've gone "this is what I believe" then closed your mind to the issues with that.

Chance upon chance upon chance is still one hell of a lot more likely than intelligent omnipresent being suddenly existing out of nothing.

Evolution is also scientifically proven, it DOES happen, there is no doubt about that. The chance upon chance upon chance is PROVEN to occur. So you're more willing to believe in a story from a book than something that has scientific evidence?

Incidentally, the CofE has posthumously apologised to Darwin and accept they were wrong in decrying evolution and have accepted it as fact. Why don't you?

[kidlewis]

To be frank, I'm more worried about the ones who "Dont give a shit" than the ones who said No.

Really? :shock:

Oh, of course, in a rather patronising 'faith in something even if that something is nothing' kind of idiocy....as long as there is faith then it doesn't matter to what one is praying.

Yep, that strengthens your case, me old china.

It was more of a "I don't care about life in general" attitude I'm afraid of. Least the "No"'s have gave it thought.

But if you want to take that slant on things, be my quest.

Just because people don't give a shit about religion, doesn't, at all, mean that they don't care about life, some people have different interests, some turn to sport, some turn to education, some turn a *sophy of some kind...

Just because it's your emotional crutch, doesn't make it everyones.

I think that the people that have never asked themselves the question "where have we come from" and "why does religion exist" do not really have as in depth creative mind as people like myself.

I question a lot of things and then try to understand my stance, others and why people even asked the quesiton in the first place.

Then i somehow get the train of thought onto why am I still up, at what bit in time does yesterday become today. Is it a simple case of the clock says so? how did we quantify time into units and seconds? obviously based on the our orbit around the sun and the cycle of the planet, seasons etc etc.

then I look at the forum and think "who invented smileys?"

I then finish the post and think "will I check to wait for a response.....or just go to bed like I said I would do an hour an 4 minutes ago".

Then I think....mmmm I have a crunchie by me....how have I gone an hour without eating that.

Then I think. God cannot exist because he would just be eating crunchies all the time. mmmmm.

oh wait I have work tomorrow. SHIT!

[kidlewis]

Ive been debating for almost 3 hours with out the use of throw away sarcastic comments. Its 1am, I make a single comment like that, and you jump on my back saying I'm unable to hold a debate?

Get out.

O and by the way. yes I am more willing to believe in "A MAGIC MAN" as you delicately put it than evolution being a process of "chance upon chance upon chance".

Except you haven't debated, you've gone "this is what I believe" then closed your mind to the issues with that.

Chance upon chance upon chance is still one hell of a lot more likely than intelligent omnipresent being suddenly existing out of nothing.

Evolution is also scientifically proven, it DOES happen, there is no doubt about that. The chance upon chance upon chance is PROVEN to occur. So you're more willing to believe in a story from a book than something that has scientific evidence?

Incidentally, the CofE has posthumously apologised to Darwin and accept they were wrong in decrying evolution and have accepted it as fact. Why don't you?

maybe because it still doesn't prove where the universe came from? we are a result of evolution no doubt about that. But our part in the creation of the universe does not mean God couldn't have created the universe ages ago and left it to it's own devices.

Oh I dunno now I am arguing the case for Gods existence.

**** sake man, what am I doing. I am debating with my **** self.

you see, I am a creative thinker, I ask questions and try to answer them myself based on what I know, think could be plausable and what other people think even if I dont agree with it.

**** SAKE GET OUT OF MY OWN HEAD. arrrrrrrrrrrgh lol

perhaps I am too tired.

really am going to bed now.

[Jondaken]

Ive been debating for almost 3 hours with out the use of throw away sarcastic comments. Its 1am, I make a single comment like that, and you jump on my back saying I'm unable to hold a debate?

Get out.

O and by the way. yes I am more willing to believe in "A MAGIC MAN" as you delicately put it than evolution being a process of "chance upon chance upon chance".

Except you haven't debated, you've gone "this is what I believe" then closed your mind to the issues with that.

Chance upon chance upon chance is still one hell of a lot more likely than intelligent omnipresent being suddenly existing out of nothing.

Evolution is also scientifically proven, it DOES happen, there is no doubt about that. The chance upon chance upon chance is PROVEN to occur. So you're more willing to believe in a story from a book than something that has scientific evidence?

Incidentally, the CofE has posthumously apologised to Darwin and accept they were wrong in decrying evolution and have accepted it as fact. Why don't you?

To be fair, I'd be a pretty terrible Christian to be swayed in a 3 hour conversation on TalkVilla about my faith.

What else can I do other than try and explain why I think the things I think?

And when I slated Evolution, I only meant the Evolution that you believe in, the one where everything was just "chance". Sorry if I wasn't clear on that, there are a lot of tangents I'm being taken on.

[B-dub]

No I don't ... god dammit!

[Bazdavies79]

There's not really an option for Agnostics in this poll.....

And by Agnostic I mean in the common universally accepted definition of the word.....i.e. non committal, open, undecided.....

[snowychap]

It was more of a "I don't care about life in general" attitude I'm afraid of.

Why?

Why should I or anyone else care about life?

Well that's great that. Brilliant attitude.

I was asking why you were afraid of it and why anyone ought to care about life.

Not whether you approved of the 'attitude' - that was kind of a 'given' from your previous post.

Your response is not unique amongst god-botherers, I must say.

BTW, if your god really cared then he might not have put some of us through the living hell that we have to encounter everyday. HE may be omnipotent and omnipresent - if so, he's also a callous ****.

[Jondaken]

It was more of a "I don't care about life in general" attitude I'm afraid of.

Why?

Why should I or anyone else care about life?

Well that's great that. Brilliant attitude.

I was asking why you were afraid of it and why anyone ought to care about life.

Not whether you approved of the 'attitude' - that was kind of a 'given' from your previous post.

Your response is not unique amongst god-botherers, I must say.

BTW, if your god really cared then he might not have put some of us through the living hell that we have to encounter everyday. HE may be omnipotent and omnipresent - if so, he's also a callous ****.

People should care about life regardless of their religion/lack of. That is what I was getting at.

[snowychap]

People should care about life regardless of their religion/lack of. That is what I was getting at.

Rubbish.

The ones who 'don't give a shit' were saying that they didn't give a shit about a belief in god.

It was you, I believe, who decided to stretch that out to a lack of care about life - at least you did in the response to me, you may have said smething else to someone else.

You said:

It was more of a "I don't care about life in general" attitude I'm afraid of. Least the "No"'s have gave it thought.

The inference drawn from that is that those who couldn't give a shit about 'God' hadn't thought about it.

Well, matey, they might well have and they might well have come down on the side of thinking that it really matters **** bugger all. And as a result they couldn't give a shit.

Whatever way, I think it's a shade presumptuous from your armchair of obeisance 'to the lord' to be categorising those who may not worry about the existence of your deity as people for whom you ought to feel pity.

p.s. I note that in your replies to me you haven't even attempted to answer the questions I have posed and you've continued to crap on about 'not caring for life' as though it were some sermon. Perhaps you and your God might spare a moment to respond to one or two of those questions?

[Chindie]

I'm an atheist. Im see no reason for a god, I find religion somewhat repulsive. As someone who has a slight interest in science, to see some of the denials of evolution that are around with 5 minutes of googling will make your blood boil. Simply, the entire idea is to me at least, utterly ridiculous. If it were not for my beliefs in people can believe whatever they want to, I'd ridicule those who chose to worship (to quote Dawkins here) a being who ' is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction : jealous, and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, blood thirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully', who allegedly loves us all but will happily let us fry if we don't give him a ego boost, can **** right off.

If I were to be religious, I think I'd side somewhat with Blake, a man who whole heartedly believed in an all mighty, but also believed his mortal underlings in the church were inherently disgusting. I take issue with the idea of god, and I'd never believe it, but if I were to be that way inclined, I'd wonder about all these little helpers running around interpretting what he said and telling what we should and should not do. Especially when it's in their interest to do so.

I thoroughly recommend the God Delusion by the way, working my way through it, Dawkins is preaching to the converted to be honest (I've never believed, and I remember being emotionally hurt when my nan died and the subsequent funeral harping on about her going to be a better place. It disgusted me, lies), but still is points are brilliant.

EDIT - apologies if the tone is a bit off there, it's late and I've had a couple, and this topic annoys me immensely.

[Chindie]

Also, I would ask Jondaken this -

What religion are you, and why are you right but all the other religions, that essentially amount to similar things when you get down to it (incomprehensible being(s) making the world and so on), are wrong? Is it because you just so happened to be brought up in a '________' household? Married into it? etc etc.

[Jondaken]

p.s. I note that in your replies to me you haven't even attempted to answer the questions I have posed and you've continued to crap on about 'not caring for life' as though it were some sermon. Perhaps you and your God might spare a moment to respond to one or two of those questions?

Because I'd be here till next Wednesday If I sat and answered in detail every question thrown at me today.

And if you think using abusive language is any way to go about getting decent lengthy though out replies from anyone... your wrong.

Ive answered many questions as best I can today, noone else has been swearing in their posts and coming out with this aggressive tone, why are you? Trying to get some confrontational reaction out of me?

[Jondaken]

Also, I would ask Jondaken this -

What religion are you, and why are you right but all the other religions, that essentially amount to similar things when you get down to it (incomprehensible being(s) making the world and so on), are wrong? Is it because you just so happened to be brought up in a '________' household? Married into it? etc etc.

Yea I was brought up a born again Christian. Got it mainly from my Dad who wasn't brought up a christian and got saved in his mid 20's.

But no, I dont believe I followed like a sheep if that's what your getting at. I stopped going to church at 12, started going back at 18 when it kinda turned out to be the only thing that made sense to me, was that there must be a God.

And yea, I do believe all other religions are wrong, else I'd be a pretty bad christian if I though otherwise. It's hard to explain this sort of stuff, not least over forum boards!

[Si.]

Open minded on the subject but sway more towards I do then I dont. Im 100% certain there are more advanced lifeforms in this universe then us tho.

[leviramsey]

This question is pure nonsense... commit this thread to the flames!

[snowychap]

Because I'd be here till next Wednesday If I sat and answered in detail every question thrown at me today.

Fair enough.

It might have been better then to ignore all of my post rather than just retort with a one liner complaining about the 'attitude' in my question. :?

And if you think using abusive language is any way to go about getting decent lengthy though out replies from anyone... your wrong.

Ive answered many questions as best I can today, noone else has been swearing in their posts and coming out with this aggressive tone, why are you? Trying to get some confrontational reaction out of me?

Using abusive language?

I have sworn, yes, partly because it is a subject that pisses me off and partly because that was one of the poll options.

If you have a problem with the tone of my couple of posts then I apologize.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

Not me. I was raised as a Catholic but now i'm an Atheist and believe in Science.

Same as me mate. Did not take me long though, I was about 11 or 12 when I finally managed to see what the truth was. Maybe been taught by the odd old nun at school made me realise it's all bolox.

[Santa_Rosa]

I'm 33, I've thought about it a lot over the years and I can't seem to come to any conclusion. That probably says more about me than anything though - whenever I read a debate about it on here I feel like that Paul Whitehouse character from the Fast Show who beleives whoever spoke last :? :notsure:

I definitely give a shit though :nod:

[Qwpzxjor1]

Agnostic here too.

I want to believe in something - all religions have their appeal of a life after death and something worth building your life around and towards.... but I just can't buy into all the ludicrous crap that comes with it.

I haven't voted on the poll because I don't apply to any of those answers. I don't believe, but I don't NOT believe, and I certainly give a shit.