kidlewis Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Does God give us free will so we could think for ourselves to believe in him or is it God's will and he has control over everything we do? because it's one or the other. It cannot be both. The 1st one. God doesn't have control over anything we do. so why bother praying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I don't follow? If you mean like praying that someone will not die through some disease, God curing that disease isn't him making us do anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The Ancient Hebrew name for God is YHWH..and you're quite correct without the vowels it's hard to know the exact pronunciation. Hi Julie,A few pages back I asked you a question about your understanding of evolution and how you couldn't reconcile it with the complexity of nature. You've probably missed it - but I would be interested to hear your answer if you've got the time. Thanks. Sorry, I'll have a look back and respond but football is on soon and I'm going to a friends house for dinner and to watch it hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDon Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I don't follow? If you mean like praying that someone will not die through some disease, God curing that disease isn't him making us do anything... He's making you live! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The 1st one. God doesn't have control over anything we do. Then he's not omnipotent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Actually to my surprise as I grew up I learned that even Darwin who started the theory of evolution believed in a Creator, he never said that he didn't beleive in God. Yes he did. In fact he went to great lengths to say that all his previously held Christian beliefs were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The 1st one. God doesn't have control over anything we do. Then he's not omnipotent? Just because he knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean he is making us do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I don't follow? If you mean like praying that someone will not die through some disease, God curing that disease isn't him making us do anything... He's making you live! Only because people chose to pray for the individual! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The 1st one. God doesn't have control over anything we do. Then he's not omnipotent? Just because he knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean he is making us do it. God is supposedly omnipotent right? That means he is all-powerful, has unlimited power. You're saying he has no control over what we do. So is he omnipotent or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The 1st one. God doesn't have control over anything we do. Then he's not omnipotent? Just because he knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean he is making us do it. God is supposedly omnipotent right? That means he is all-powerful, has unlimited power. You're saying he has no control over what we do. So is he omnipotent or not? He chooses not to interfere. As I already explained ages back, he gave us free will, the ability to do what we like. He did not want to create a race of zombies. He wants us to chose to follow him, not do it because he pressed a button on our heads. Now watch the damn game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villadude Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Anyone see that programme on Beeb 2 tonight about the Amish people. Freakshows, all of em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The 1st one. God doesn't have control over anything we do. Then he's not omnipotent? Just because he knows what we are going to do, doesn't mean he is making us do it. God is supposedly omnipotent right? That means he is all-powerful, has unlimited power. You're saying he has no control over what we do. So is he omnipotent or not? He chooses not to interfere. As I already explained ages back, he gave us free will, the ability to do what we like. He did not want to create a race of zombies. He wants us to chose to follow him, not do it because he pressed a button on our heads. Now watch the damn game! Ah right, he chooses not to interfere. That's not what you said though - you said he had no control over us. You say he chooses not to interfere, but he used to interfere quite a lot if you believe the Bible. Bellowing down orders to Abraham and Moses, talking to Adam, impregnating virgins, sending his son to walk among us, dispatching angels to talk to shepherds etc. Why do you think he gave up on this interference?? Strange innit. Another point, on free will. If you believe that God is all-knowing and knows everything that will happen in our lives, then free will is a nonsense. If he knows every single decision we will take and what will happen as result, then our lives are mapped out for us and free will is an illusion. If you say he doesn't know what we're going to do, then he's not an all-knowing god. Your thoughts Jondaken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Another point, on free will. If you believe that God is all-knowing and knows everything that will happen in our lives, then free will is a nonsense. If he knows every single decision we will take and what will happen as result, then our lives are mapped out for us and free will is an illusion. If you say he doesn't know what we're going to do, then he's not an all-knowing god. Yes it is quite a paradox. If this God is all knowing then it knows what we will do and the choices we make. Hence our lives are known to it and mapped out before we are born. If this God does not know all than it is no longer an all powerful being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Also, I would ask Jondaken this - What religion are you, and why are you right but all the other religions, that essentially amount to similar things when you get down to it (incomprehensible being(s) making the world and so on), are wrong? Is it because you just so happened to be brought up in a '________' household? Married into it? etc etc. Yea I was brought up a born again Christian. Got it mainly from my Dad who wasn't brought up a christian and got saved in his mid 20's. But no, I dont believe I followed like a sheep if that's what your getting at. I stopped going to church at 12, started going back at 18 when it kinda turned out to be the only thing that made sense to me, was that there must be a God. And yea, I do believe all other religions are wrong, else I'd be a pretty bad christian if I though otherwise. It's hard to explain this sort of stuff, not least over forum boards! Do you not also agree that if you had happened to be born in Saudi Arabia to devout Muslim parents you would most likely be a Muslim now instead? That must mean your god allows some souls enough exposure to Christianity to chose for themselves the 'right' religion but denies that of others born in the wrong place (or the wrong time). I do not know, because it never happened. There are lots of if's, but's and maybe's and im in no position to answer any of them in regard to my parallel life's. 1st of all, I'd be surprised if 90% of the world population had not head of the gospel at some point in their life. They have all had their chance to get to know more. Secondly, being brought up in a christian home does not mean you are going to be one. Not a single one of my school pals, who's parents are Christians, are Christians themselves now. As for those born in the "wrong place" or "wrong time", who do not know about the gospel, well, I assume God will deal with them on how they lived their lives. I think that is a bit of wishful thinking on your part there at the end. It is not what the Christain bible says god does to them. Hence the reason for Christian missions to spread the message that you can only be saved through christ. If people could be saved just by being good there would be no need for missionarys. It does seem quite cruel to the aborignal people who lived between 33AD and 1788AD though doen't it. This is one of the main reasons Cristianity is not a religion I would want to be a part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Why would anybody want to be a Christian? Worshipping a jealous god, who doesn't want your family to spend eternity with you if they don't worship him? How many people died because of Satan according to the Bible? And god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Actually to my surprise as I grew up I learned that even Darwin who started the theory of evolution believed in a Creator, he never said that he didn't beleive in God. Yes he did. In fact he went to great lengths to say that all his previously held Christian beliefs were wrong. Covered earlier in the thread but to reiterate, he quite clearly stated he was Agnostic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heystally! Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Come on kids. In the words of Jimmy Carr: "When I was a kid, I used to have an imaginary friend. I thought he went everywhere with me. I could talk to him and he could hear me, and he could grant me wishes and stuff too. But then I grew up, and stopped going to church." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted February 18, 2009 Administrator Share Posted February 18, 2009 Can someone pray for the VT web servers to fix themselves please. Or you'll go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 not as fun as an american based forum discussing religion! my answer is no, but i can fully understand and accept someone who says yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Too many shit things happen in life for there to be a god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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