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The Spanish Football/la Liga Thread


Troglodyte

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Analyzing Barcelona’s performance last night, they have some major issues that need solving, despite their domestic dominance. 

- They need to replace Suarez with more speed, and someone good enough to be a threat down the left. Neither Coutinho, Dembele or Malcolm is the answer. 

- Their midfield is a shadow of its former glory. You don’t easily replace Iniesta and Xavi, and while Rakitic is a quality player, he’s not good enough to carry a Barcelona midfield. More worrying than that, even, is that Busquets looks done. He was never fast, but last night he looked like a bag of sand. He will be just as difficult to replace as Iniesta was, but it needs to be adressed. 

- Their right back situation is a mess, and it has been since Dani Alves. Sergi Roberto, for all his local lad sentimental value and spirit, simply isn’t good enough, and Semedo doesn’t cut the mustard either, even though he obviously should have started over Sergi Roberto last night. 

- They’ve lost their identity, on the pitch. They simply do not look like Barcelona. Where is the dominant posession game, defending on the ball? Where is the high pressing, the traps? They had none of that last night. 

Messi is still Messi, and will be for a couple more years. But if Barca want to make the most of Messi’s last years of prime quality, they have to make drastic changes. 

Edited by Michelsen
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de jong and Arthur means they have the foundation for a good midfield for a while yet

keeper is fine

defence they should if they have the buy back clause go back to grimaldo at Benfica and cash in on alba while they can but they'll stick with him and have wague as back up, they have umtitti, lenglet, todibo and murillo for CB, semedo might not be brilliant but its hard to see them moving away from him

midfield de jong, Arthur and Coutinho, maybe messi dropping deeper, vidal as cover, sergi Roberto rotating between midfield and RB, cash in Rafinha, quietly reflect on how stupid kevin prince boateng was, develop puig not sure on alena

up front let suarez go, cash in on alcacer, dembele right, messi somewhere, Malcom as cover, not sure if or when abel ruiz will break through

so they definitely need at least 1 more attacker maybe 2 and then young bodies in midfield

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Malcolm looked like someone who had won a competition to play for Barcelona when he came on last night. They have two major issues, 1. Their recruitment has been terrible, 2. They have no idea how to defend, zero idea. 

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5 hours ago, villa4europe said:

de jong and Arthur means they have the foundation for a good midfield for a while yet

keeper is fine

defence they should if they have the buy back clause go back to grimaldo at Benfica and cash in on alba while they can but they'll stick with him and have wague as back up, they have umtitti, lenglet, todibo and murillo for CB, semedo might not be brilliant but its hard to see them moving away from him

midfield de jong, Arthur and Coutinho, maybe messi dropping deeper, vidal as cover, sergi Roberto rotating between midfield and RB, cash in Rafinha, quietly reflect on how stupid kevin prince boateng was, develop puig not sure on alena

up front let suarez go, cash in on alcacer, dembele right, messi somewhere, Malcom as cover, not sure if or when abel ruiz will break through

so they definitely need at least 1 more attacker maybe 2 and then young bodies in midfield

They could do with Jack in midfield

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6 hours ago, Zatman said:

Shut up dont give them ideas 😉

Probably could do with a Bjarnason though

Need pace up front? Ross McCormack clearly the answer!

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Griezmann leaving Atletico. Where might he be going? Anyone know any massive clubs with unlimited funds and a badly bruised ego, not named Real Madrid?

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27 minutes ago, Michelsen said:

Griezmann leaving Atletico. Where might he be going? Anyone know any massive clubs with unlimited funds and a badly bruised ego, not named Real Madrid?

Barcelona said no after he turned them down last year. Strange he is a good player but can't see any of the major teams needing him

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1 hour ago, Michelsen said:

Griezmann leaving Atletico. Where might he be going? Anyone know any massive clubs with unlimited funds and a badly bruised ego, not named Real Madrid?

Manchester United? Or were you being rethorical? 🤔

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I don't think he fits barca's model at the moment which is building a young team, they've already spent their cash on de jong too so unless they cut the wages of suarez or cash in on Coutinho (at a huge hit) then I don't see it

Griezmann has left it too long

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Me too. He's one of the best players in the world right now, he'll slot in and immediately perform at the level expected by a club like Barcelona for three or four seasons without his age being a factor.  If they can talk PSG into taking Coutinho off their books then the move basically funds itself. 

Suarez has got two years left on his deal but I think it's probably time to move him on while he has a relatively high value. He's clearly starting to slow down but there will be a lot of interest if he is available. Not sure where he'll end up though. Maybe a move in the opposite direction to Atleti makes sense as I suspect they'll be able to get a tune out of him and they'll need an utter shithouse at the club if Costa moves on. 

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I thought it was known Suarez was leaving at the end of the season. Griezmann should have left Atletico years ago. 28 now. He's just below the top world class level in my view but never know unless he joins one of the big English clubs or Barcelona or Real. 

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3 minutes ago, PaulC said:

I thought it was known Suarez was leaving at the end of the season. Griezmann should have left Atletico years ago. 28 now. He's just below the top world class level in my view but never know unless he joins one of the big English clubs or Barcelona or Real. 

He won the World Cup and top scorer at last Euros and been Atletico best forward for years

Nonsense that he needs to prove himself 

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So has Pogba won a world cup but I still haven't decided whether he is world class or not. If he played for a more attacking manager he might move up another level. Stiffled by Simeone I think

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Pretty cool!

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DOCUMENT: The Supporter thread that can become a CL club

They started as a supporter association in the neighboring village to the capital.

During Saturday they can become a Champions League club.

This is the story of a 37-year-old sports teacher with a goalie, a galactic winged horse, a forgotten Arsenal profile and a conventional tactician with thick glasses.

This is the story of little Getafe that once again hopes to defy the logic - although they now need help from elsewhere to reach the whole way.

- Molina selección, Molina selección, Mo-liens! See-le-cción!

It's a chilly Friday night in the southern part of the Spanish capital province. In front of an audience that is not even five-digit in the number, Jorge Molina has just dropped 3-0 for his Getafe, his second goal in the match, in the home meeting against Alavés in La Liga .

The home fans clearly chant what they think about it.

- Molina to the national team! Molina to the national team!

A pretty bizarre frame at first glance, considering that Molina is 37 years old and made most of her goals in her career while studying for a sports teacher's degree.

Bizarre considering that it is a forgotten striker who made his La Liga debut as a 29-year-old.

But as far as Molina and his Getafe are doing, and have performed, it still feels logical there and then.

The 4-0 win for table exams at home against the equally unlikely table man Alavés is a force message.

A message that Getafe intends to join and fight for European places in a league that is considered one of, if not the, best football league in the world. And given that the point gap for third Sevilla and the fourth Real Madrid hardly can be defined as a gap, the supporters' euphoria in the January cycle is highly justified.

But not even in that euphoria, they would expect the table image to last all spring.

Not even in that euphoria could they expect a Champions League dream to be alive before the very last round.

supporters Club

In 1976, a bunch of Real Madrid supporters knew to live in the small municipality outside Madrid to play some football themselves. "Real Madrid's supporter club Getafe" was formed, and football began to be played under that club name in the fence series.

The little town's then soccer pride, Club Getafe Deportivo, played during that time in the Spanish second division, Segundan, without making any big sense of it. When player wages remained unpaid during the 1981–1982 season, all ended in bankruptcy and forced degradation.

At that stage, that supporter club had changed its name, which they would do once again through a merger with another club.

July 8, 1983, Getafe Club de Futbol was formed.

Twenty years later, they had strolled through the entire Spanish serial jungle - all the way to La Liga.

"Getafe is a small club"

Back to that January month of 2019.

The joy scenes in Getafe have been exchanged just over a week later against the image of a full-scale war in Valencia.

The Valencian Rodrigo has just made a hat-trick and sent Valencia away from the Copa del Rey's quarter-finals.

On the other side, a Getafe who feels distorted by the judiciary. Distorted by the football gods. Decimated by the red cards. Angry for the lost leadership. Angry at Valencia (a Valencia we come back to a few months later and a lot of lines down in this text).

Scrawl-like scenes take place when the referee blows for full time after ten (!) Minutes of add-on. Valencia does not hide their joy after they have turned to a team that frustrated them for almost two games with the constant limit of the allowed.

Sometimes also across the border.

The goat gamblers completely lose their reflection after the final signal. It's blood white. These are riot shields. It is an Uruguayan exterior back that cranks against uniformly dressed personnel.

A new, unlikely, rivalry within the Spanish football has been born.

- Shortly after shortly after the card, Jorge Molina says in the TV interview, in the direction of the judge, after the match and continues:

- Yes ... Getafe is a small club. But it feels like we made people damned in any case.

The aftermath of the chaos scenes is shut down. In Getafe, it is started to think about how an already thin squad on the paper should be formed in the next league match in view of all card-loaded and closed pieces.

An extremely costly chaos there and then. But the question is whether, in the long run, did it unite rather than separate the surprise club?

Leftover galacticos

The 2004–2005 season of the Spanish High School in Football was the first to be represented by Getafe, which, with its move, became the first club ever from the province of Madrid that did not have its base in the capital.

After having managed to survive in a rather anonymous middle life during his first years, the club reached its best ever position in the league through a sixth place in the 2009-2010 season, with a final loss in the Spanish Cup on it.

Getafe had introduced himself seriously.

At the same time, it was with a squad that reminded of the club's origin. Miguel Torres, Roberto Soldado, Dani Parejo, Jordi Codina were some of the mainstays. Players raised in Real Madrid. Players who did not place in a star-studded capital team and instead had to show their qualities in the "supporter club".

Getafe was seen as, and was in a way still, merely an extended arm from the capital.

But the squad that created headlines nine years later is something else. Something more than that left over from a multi-billion business.

It is, in many ways, the result of a competent trainer whose history is as unassuming and anonymous as the club's.

The man with the glasses

To tell the story of Getafe without telling the story of that well-dressed man with the black-bowed glasses standing and giving tactical directives at the sidelines would be to make the story of Getafe a great bear service.

José "Pepe" Bordalas had no player career to speak well when it went, with games in the Spanish fourth division as the heaviest merit. Already as a 28-year-old he had to put the shoes on the shelf because of injuries.

He nevertheless managed to get his first coaching job when he got the responsibility of Alicante's reserves in 1993, and later also for the club's A team.

Apart from the fact that Bordalas was geographically faithful and immobile in their initial assignments, it was not so that he directly appeared on the larger clubs' radar.

When he returned in 1998 for another coaching trip in little Alicante, he had been around in three clubs in the immediate area for as many years.

It was there and when Bordalas would start to shine.

From the regional small leagues he picked up Alicante all the way to the third division in just three years. A few years later he got the chance in the second division of his mother club and Alicante's local rival Hercules. A few rounds in Alcoyano and the same in Alcorcon followed before Deportivo Alavés chose to put his trust in Pepe Bordalas.

They got a move up to the high school.

Bordalas? He got the foot as thank you.

At that time Getafe, after more than ten straight seasons in the high school, had finally fallen into Segundan.

Bordalas was unemployed. Getafe struck.

The Sejour in Segundan became only one year old.

Employment Bargain

One can think that the chaos that occurred after the cup loss against Valencia is symbolic of the team. Actually, it is quite incompatible with Pepe Bordalas as a football coach. Like his glasses always sitting exactly where they are going, he expects his players to always be within the lines.

Hard working and uncompromising. But always with control.

In a country that is mainly known for passport-oriented and technical football, the Bordalas-controlled Getafe is somewhat tactically somewhat of a counter-pole.

A straight, almost "Pelle Olsson's" 4–4–2. Raider with weight rather than speed. Torn breeches that will not get any Christmas cards from their opponents after the season. A midfield that strikes its fits straight rather than laterally. All disciplined based on a high play, found in a bargain box on a Spanish employment agency - with a pay budget that is the fifth smallest in the league.

The attack was on paper for free when neither veteran Jorge Molina, second-division shooter Jaime Mata or trusted Angel cost any transfer fees. The defense beast Djene Dakonam was found with loupe in Belgium, the middle back veteran Bruno is read out by Betis and the midfield rower Nemanja Maksimovic as well by Valencia. And did you even know that the old Arsenal profile Mathieu Flamini still played football at the highest level?

A galactic pegasus

April 21, 2019, in minute 77 of home meeting against Seville, Flamini was in any case standing there on the sidelines of Coliseum Alfonso Perez and would replace Jorge Molina. A sports teacher who made two goals and contributed to a 3–0 management also this day. This time an even heavier lead than was the case that January evening three months earlier.

In the match where the favorite Sevilla would take command in the battle for the fourth and final Champions League place and once and for all put an end to the surprise team, this particular surprise team had shocked everyone again.

The ovations for Molina were magnificent - once again.

There was never a national team call (not in any case) for the 37-year-old. A month after the national championships echoed in the stands, it was instead the veteran colleague, Jaime Mata, who got the call from Spanish federal captain Luis Enrique.

An equally unlikely call to it - if you see that he is a 30-year-old who makes his first La Liga season in his career (So be he became Segundan's shootout last season). A La Liga debut that took place five years after he made his first match as a professional football player after an introduction to his career in the dark.

But he still has "galactico status".

After all, he played in the obscure and now closed fourth division club "Galactico Pegaso" as late as 2010.

Need Valladolid help

When that match against Sevilla was over, Getafe had acquired a 5–0 takeover in mutual meetings (which is counted before goal difference at equal points in Spain) against their main competitor for the CL site and a decent point distance in addition. One had linked an iron grip on a place that nobody, absolutely no, even thought was on the map.

One had made it with 35 percent ball possession and three shots on goal.

Statistics that would get any Expected goals connoisseur or tiki taka ideologist to become nausea.

Statistics for Getafe Club de Futbol's success story.

Stinging in the eyes of some. But oh so efficient and road-winning.

The question, however, is how road-winning it will ultimately be?

When Getafe went to Camp Nou in the next-to-last La Liga round to meet an already clear league champion (incidentally with a Pepe Bordalas turned off and in the stands), they did so with a three-point lead to both Seville and Valencia.

You left Catalonia with a dropped fourth place to Valencia.

So, before the weekend's final round, Valencia, like the chaotic cup game in January, is Valencia that can stop Getafe's dreams.

With last weekend's results, a victory for Valencia away against Valladolid, no matter what Getafe finds at home against Villarreal, suffices because "Los Che" will pinch the fourth and final Champions League spot (It itself a pretty incomparable story seen to their sad autumn).

In this way Getafe is, once again, quite calculated for the final round.

A minor miracle and a Valladolid that does something very, very unexpected is required for the story of the supporter gang to get its fabulous end.

For Spain to get its own Leicester history to the fullest extent and for Getafe to show off the largest of scenes that they are no longer merely a residue product from the capital's largest football factory.

It is now unlikely that they will go all the way.

Like it was unlikely that a 37-year-old sports teacher would be current for national team football.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/fotboll/a/qLQW21/dokument-supporterganget-som-kan-bli-en-cl-klubb

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Santi Cazorla back in the national side for Spain.

While it probably says something about their current strength u still got to be happy for him considering he's a top bloke and this:

Quote

 

 
 

“I’m a jigsaw puzzle,” Santi Cazorla says. There is a bit of his left forearm on his right ankle, a piece of thigh in its place and the back of a leg in one heel. There is also a grin on his face, somehow. There is a metal plate in a foot and a new achilles, made from rolled-up hamstring, occupying the space where the rot set in. He points to the body parts that are where they are not supposed to be, a player for whom “patched up” applies literally, a tale told by tattoo: it says “I, n, d …” on an arm and “… i, a” on an ankle, his daughter’s name cut in half and grafted on, artery and all, where there was once a hole – a window into the horror below.

One day, you may read about Cazorla in medical textbooks. “Mikel Sánchez, the surgeon, puts me in his talks, a case study,” he says. “He and the physios say they’ve never seen such an extreme case.” There were knee, foot and ankle injuries, targets missed, seemingly endless setbacks, and 10 operations; beneath the skin, splitting open and exposed, an infection consumed 10cm of tendon leaving the bone squishy, risking his leg and his career.

Arsène Wenger said it was the worst injury he had seen and a doctor told Cazorla to settle for walking around the garden. “I’m a football nut,” he says, and for 636 days he did not play. Most thought he never would. There were nights where, lying alone a long way from home, he gave up. “I’d talk to my family and say: ‘It’s over. Tomorrow I’ll tell Juancar, the physio: I can’t go on, pal.’” But here he is, just finished training. He has started all three of Villarreal’s games this season.

“I have to pinch myself when I think: ‘I’m playing Saturday.’ I appreciate it all, every moment. I understand players thinking it’s a pain to be stuck in a hotel the night before but I’ve been in hotels alone, hospitals too. I’ve fought for this.”

Part of Cazorlas left arm has been grafted on to his right foot, splitting the tattoo of his daughter’s name. Photograph: Pablo Garciat

It goes all the way back to a knock in a friendly against Chile in September 2013 but that does not tell the story, and it need not have come to this, a culmination of factors over five years.

He cracked a bone in an ankle, suffered a knee ligament injury in November 2015 and played in increasing pain until facing Ludogorets in October 2016. “Half-times killed me, because it got cold, I’d be crippled at the start of the second half and the pain got worse and worse,” he says. “That night, I cried; it had become too much. I had to stop. Then the problems started.”

“It’s not a big injury,” Wenger said then but Cazorla did not play for Arsenalagain. His skin had deteriorated and split open and infection attacked.

“I picked it up in the operating theatre and then there was the fact that the wound was open,” he explains. “I’d work on the bike and a couple of stitches would come out. Because it was an open wound, bacteria can enter, so another bug gets in. At night, a yellow liquid would come out. Every time they sewed me up, it split again; more liquid. They did a skin graft but they didn’t see what was inside – the bacteria eating away, eating away. They never found out which bacteria it was.

“They’d said to me: ‘Don’t worry about playing football, concentrate on regaining a normal life, being able to play with your son or go for a stroll.’ But I didn’t attach too much importance to that because by then I’d already decided to come to Spain, where they told me completely different things.

“I’d got tired – I’d gone through two or three months of operations. I went to Vitoria the next day and that’s when they found the bacteria – two in the tendon and another in the bone.

“They didn’t know how much of the tendon the infection had eaten,” Cazorla continues, tracing a line up his leg, stopping at calf, knee, thigh. “Mikel said: ‘I’m going to have to open you up until I find the tendon.’ They told me they’d have to open, open, open, open and when they did, they saw I had lost 10cm. I’d been lucky, they said, it could have been more. When he had to rebuild the tendon, he realised how bad a condition the bone was in. He could put his finger in it. It was like Plasticine. That’s even more dangerous.”

The discovery was relayed back. “They [doctors in the UK] said: ‘We know.’ They said it was under control. ‘We gave you antibiotics.’ But giving antibiotics isn’t the same as giving the exact antibiotic for each specific bug. They didn’t know which bacteria were eating the tendon.”

Cazorla spends most of the time laughing but there must have been anger. A sense of blame. Amputation had been a risk, after all. Could he even have taken action? “My family said that but people said it’s not worth it. You can feel frustrated because if they’d seen it the first day, the problem would probably have been minimal but I didn’t see how it would fix anything. It’s a huge hassle and it wouldn’t do any good to fight over medical issues.

“They never took responsibility or said sorry, that they hadn’t realised. I’m convinced they think they did the right thing, that it wasn’t because of the bacteria that wasn’t spotted, that it was just bad luck. I don’t think they feel guilty. And Arsène always supported me. He renewed my contract before the first operation, which was an incredible gesture. He called me in: ‘Santi, I’m going to give you the optional year. It’s here, sign it, have your operation with peace of mind.’ That helped me focus on my rehabilitation without fear. I’m eternally grateful for that.”

It is natural to wonder what might have been had different decisions been made, all the way back to Chile. “I don’t blame myself but it’s true the kick comes in the 20th minute and I played 90. I often think: ‘By not being selfish, not thinking of yourself, you made the injury worse.’ If I’d said: ‘Take me off’ … People told me I should have been smarter but I’m not going to be selfish. Arsenal asked: ‘Why didn’t you get subbed?’ But they respected my decision. When the crack showed, it was suggested I stop a while and I refused – it’s a knock, put a bandage on, and the next week I played.

“There have been people who maybe didn’t act the right way – maybe I wouldn’t have had to go through half these problems – but I’m the one who decides who to work with, where, how. I could blame people but in the end it’s me. I should have come to Spain the first day.”

When he did, Sánchez reconstructed Cazorla’s tendon using the semitendinosus muscle cut from a hamstring and inserted a plate in a heel. “In London they had pretty much decided I wasn’t [going to play again]; in Spain they said: ‘Santi, it’s bad, pretty screwed up, but we’re going to fight.’” Cazorla left his wife, Ursula, and two kids in London, and travelled for treatment in Vitoria and rehabilitation in Salamanca – an anonymous, silent, lonely and laborious existence. Progress was slow and more procedures followed; at one point, the improvised tendon had to be disentangled from the tissue around it and reattache Cazorla in action for Villarreal agaist Girona. ‘I don’t feel too bad; I’m optimistic,’ he says. Photograph: Domenech Castello/EPA

“At times, I’d be ready to give up. It’s hardest when you don’t see any improvement. I’d talk to the medical staff again and they’d say: ‘Do you want to play?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘Right, so that’s that. Today, we work. Tomorrow, you’ll see.’ And I’d start to see tiny things. One day you get on to a pitch and your mind clears. Wow! You go back to the hotel with a huge smile. The physios were clever, they ‘conned’ me. They’d give me a ball and … madre mía! It made me feel a tiny bit like a footballer again. And they’d say: ‘Tomorrow, more ball work.’ And with those little tricks, it was worth getting up the next day.

“My family would call: ‘I touched the ball.’ ‘And how was it?’ ‘It hurt but I touched the ball!’” Back in London first and Oviedo next, India, now five, and Enzo, eight, grew older. “The kids changed schools three times in a year and we didn’t even know if it would be worth it. I’d arrive home for one night and the next day they’d already be saying: ‘Papi, you’re leaving again, aren’t you?’ They came to see it as normal and that killed me. But I did it for them too because my son’s football crazy too.”

Cazorla points; it’s hard not to be drawn, again, to the scar on one arm. On the pitch below, Enzo thumps a shot against the post. “He said to me: ‘Are you not going to play any more?’” Cazorla says, puffing out his cheeks. “‘Yes, yes, I’m going to play, of course.’ ‘With that foot?! It looks a bit strange, eh.’ I said: ‘Well, it’s different. Best not to look at it too much.’ Now he watches me play and it makes me very happy to see him in the stand.”

 Cazorla was unveiled as Villarreal player from inside a smoke-filled chamber, with the help of a magician. Photograph: Villareal CF TV

Enzo wears a yellow Villarreal kit, “Papi 19” on the back. His dad briefly trained with Alavés’ youth team but by the summer, aged 33, he was unemployed. He joined Villarreal in pre-season and eventually signed. Cazorla falls about giggling explaining his presentation, a magician making him dramatically appear inside a smoke-filled chamber. “I was hidden: 45 minutes in a tiny space, sweating, and my back was hecho un cristo, a right state,” he laughs. “I said: ‘Hey, the presentation was great and all but I can’t play Saturday now.’”t

Instead, he started then and every game since. There is pain, a certain lingering fear, a weakness in his ankle and an imbalance in his body, weight loaded through one side, but he says: “I don’t feel too bad; I’m optimistic.” He has a one-year contract with an optional second but no plan: “Just play the next game, then try to play the next.” And do so for as long as he can. He has been arguably Villarreal’s best player.

Could it not have been with Arsenal? “No, they didn’t want to,” he says. “They were very good, very honest. My idea was to do at Arsenal what I eventually did here. I knew whoever was going to sign me would have to see me first: nobody just gives you a contract. Pre-season with Arsenal, let them see me, then we all decide. But they couldn’t wait to finalise the squad. They said they’d help any way they could otherwise. I understood it, respected it. I’m eternally grateful.

“The people love me there and I’ll always have a connection with Arsenal, so much affection. Not being able to say goodbye playing at the Emirates is like a thorn in my side. If I had to leave, I wanted it to be in front of the fans.”

He has been invited to the Arsenal Legends game against Real Madrid Legends on Saturday. To play? “No,” he shoots back, laughing, “it’s for ex-players and I don’t think I’m there yet.”

So, Ludogorets, 19 October 2016, was the last time. Except, that is, one night in April, when he “trained” on the Emirates pitch before the Europa League semi-final with Atlético Madrid. There was nostalgia in his request. “I asked if I could because I didn’t know if I would play again. It was nothing much really: four laps, dribble a bit, but just being there again on that grass, just to feel the warmth of the crowd was lovely. To think: ‘I’m going to take something with me, even if I don’t play again.’” But Santi Cazorla did play again.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/07/santi-cazorla-villarreal-injury-arsenal-interview-sid-lowe

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