Marka Ragnos Posted April 7 VT Supporter Share Posted April 7 (edited) I've been a little struck sometimes at how fluently some people on VT sometimes refer to what seem to me fairly far-fetched beliefs about "shady dealings" in football. I don't want to sound judgy or harsh because it genuinely surprises me. I've seen people post about refs taking payments or certain clubs getting favoured status as glibly as if talking about tomorrow's weather. Maybe sometimes people are joking, but clearly, sometimes, they're not. They believe this stuff. And who am I to judge? Another is the idea that match officials have formed a wide, Premier League-wide conspiracy to favour certain clubs. I absolutely don't believe that, personally, and it truly surprises me that anyone would, but again, wow. This is remarkable. I also think people develop these conspiracy theories based on some grains of truth -- and at the very least, there is mistrust about the game and its integrity. I thought it would be nice to have a place to talk about and debate and wonder at and poke around the edge of current conspiracy theories specific to football in a safe, non-judgmental forum. Perhaps such discussion would help shed light on the facts, or separate fact from fiction, enumerate current conspiracy theories, and lay out the history of such thinking. Edited April 7 by Marka Ragnos 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted April 7 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 7 (edited) So I don't mind starting: I believe match officials in the UK strive to keep the game fair. I don't think -- apart from the rarest cases - anyone pays anyone off to win games, etc. or that certain clubs suborn match officials to make things go their way. I do think that referees are human beings, and they get intimidated by the big clubs. Cowardice and incompetence can look like corruption. Edited April 7 by Marka Ragnos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 9 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said: So I don't mind starting: I believe match officials in the UK strive to keep the game fair. I don't think -- apart from the rarest cases - anyone pays anyone off to win games, etc. or that certain clubs suborn match officials to make things go their way. I do think that referees are human beings, and they get intimidated by the big clubs. Cowardice and incompetence can look like corruption. Yeah this is it. The ref yesterday didn't want to send off Casemiro at old Trafford Vs Liverpool. He bottled it. Also being from Manchester and being a professional referee I don't think you should be eligible to ref their matches, either Manchester team. You might be an Altrincham fan but you're going to know a lot of fans of either Manchester club which opens you up for bias. If there was a ref from small heath refereeing our games who was apparently a Boldmere St. Michaels fan I'd be livid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Bring in overseas officials and **** our lot off to Europe in an exchange deal. Job done. Might still get shit refs but they wouldn’t be biased. Or would they… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 46 minutes ago, rjw63 said: Bring in overseas officials and **** our lot off to Europe in an exchange deal. Job done. Might still get shit refs but they wouldn’t be biased. Or would they… Yep. I think the British refs are a big boys club and all sorts of politics come into what decisions they make. Truly independent officials would just call stuff as they see it, how refreshing would that be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted April 8 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8 3 hours ago, rjw63 said: Bring in overseas officials and **** our lot off to Europe in an exchange deal. Job done. Might still get shit refs but they wouldn’t be biased. Or would they… Worked against Al Capone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-k Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 2 hours ago, Genie said: Yep. I think the British refs are a big boys club and all sorts of politics come into what decisions they make. Truly independent officials would just call stuff as they see it, how refreshing would that be! Would they? How many people do you meet from other countries who are only fans of the Sky 6, Barca/Madrid, etc? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Refs will be bad by the nature of their job. There is a mentality of 'holier than thou' and 'I know best' within the upper ranks. Add 300k a week superstars and millions of people watching in the mix and it's a recipe for disaster. I heard so many comments from refs saying that a yellow card is not a yellow in the first 15/20 mins of a game, just to make sure it's not a high tension game. I say bullshit to that. It's a hard job, but a lack of humility in the decisions and letting things go (not being stricter) does not help. I really like Marciniak (officiated last CL final and WC final). He is a Colina of our days. But just like others, he is a part of a system where games have to be refeed a certain way that the governing body wants them to be run. He said openly that UEFA and other national associations give different guidance depending on if it's a european game or a domestic game. The whole system needs a big look in the mirror. We shouldn't even know who the refs are, but they are made into minor celebrities. Mike Dean is the perfect example of arrogance in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted April 8 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted April 8 I think corruption in top level referees in this country is nonsense. It's something you hear banded about all the time, but it just doesn't make any sense. Are they incompetent? Yes they can be. Are they biased? Absolutely Are they corrupt? No **** way 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Foreign refs are just as bad as prem refs. Think of some of the horrendous calls in the CL/europa over the last decade. It's a tough job although VAR should've made it easier but complicated things even more. I think Refs just say with the penalties that the top teams just attack more so there's always going to be more scrambles and possible handball shouts compared to the team that just defends and so doesn't have as many forays into the opposition half. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I think corruption in top level referees in this country is nonsense. It's something you hear banded about all the time, but it just doesn't make any sense. Are they incompetent? Yes they can be. Are they biased? Absolutely Are they corrupt? No **** way Pretty much this. But for me the main blame goes on the system of arrogance and the power that the refereeing body has. Maybe there are not enough refs? Surely there are some people within lower leagues who could take a PL game and grab it by the balls the way it should be handled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 my conspiracy theory on the refs....the PL know its not good enough but it adds to the drama in the worlds most exciting league so they aren't fussed about fixing it people still talking about ref decisions around the water cooler 4 days later is good for business 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) Tin hat time. But I think you are incredibly naive if you don't believe there is some sort of favouritism in the Premier League. I don't think the refs are "corrupt" but the system behind them definitely is, and ensures biased decisions in favour of the Sky 6. The Premier League is a business. there's billions and billions of pounds at stake, specifically with the international audiences. More money is made to have the "bigger" teams fighting for trophies and the top 4. Asia and emerging markets like Africa do not care one bit about Aston Villa, Everton, Newcastle, West Ham etc. If it was us vs West Ham for the PL, hardly no one abroad would tune in or care. However if its Arsenal V Liverpool last day of the season for the PL, half the world tunes in. Money talks Edited April 8 by pas5898 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Maybe I’ve been lucky but I find refereeing in the CL and international tournaments far better and consistent than what we get here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, Genie said: Maybe I’ve been lucky but I find refereeing in the CL and international tournaments far better and consistent than what we get here. I have not watched a Champions League games since the 2005 final (apart from the few games I have had to attend for business) but I think some of the refs we have had in Europe have been awful. Equally bad if not worse than the PL refs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, pas5898 said: Tin hat time. But I think you are incredibly naive if you don't believe there is some sort of favouritism in the Premier League. I don't think the refs are "corrupt" but the system behind them definitely is, and ensures biased decisions in favour of the Sky 6. The Premier League is a business. there's billions and billions of pounds at stake, specifically with the international audiences. More money is made to have the "bigger" teams fighting for trophies and the top 4. Asia and emerging markets like Africa do not care one bit about Aston Villa, Everton, Newcastle, West Ham etc. If it was us vs West Ham for the PL, hardly no one abroad would tune in or care. However if its Arsenal V Liverpool last day of the season for the PL, half the world tunes in. Money talks Man City winning season after season is actually not very good for the business model. If they were rigging the competition they are doing a bad job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 As for other conspiracy theories, Muller has been 33 since 2016, and Norwich do not have an away kit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) I think there's a mixture of favouritism and incompetence at play, but probably not outright corruption. Clattenburg, for example, has openly admitted that he heavily favoured United when refereeing them under Fergie. Pretty sure they were mates too, which seems like a conflict of interest. Referees aren't helped by the rules of the game being incredibly unfit for purpose and vague either. As for a conspiracy theory, McTominay and El Shaarawy are still in their early 20s. There's no way McTominay is 27. I'm not buying it. Edited April 8 by wishywashy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 I find it amazing that Bruno Guimaraes picked up 9 yellow cards in his first 20 games but then managed to avoid a 10th card (and the 2 game suspension) for 10 straight games. Especially considering the way he plays. I'll be rather surprised if he doesn't start picking up cards again now that the limit for a suspension has been raised to 15. Obviously have no evidence that the Saudis invited the refs over in the summer and has a bunch of Mossad style incriminating photos of them but I can's say for certain that they don't Would also explain why Chelsea get a penalty every other game this season... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted April 8 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 8 (edited) 6 hours ago, sne said: I find it amazing that Bruno Guimaraes picked up 9 yellow cards in his first 20 games but then managed to avoid a 10th card (and the 2 game suspension) for 10 straight games. Especially considering the way he plays. I'll be rather surprised if he doesn't start picking up cards again now that the limit for a suspension has been raised to 15. Obviously have no evidence that the Saudis invited the refs over in the summer and has a bunch of Mossad style incriminating photos of them but I can's say for certain that they don't Would also explain why Chelsea get a penalty every other game this season... Football conspiracy agnosticism? Edited April 8 by Marka Ragnos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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