Is our future as bright as we think it is?

[Jas10]

16 hours ago, Zatman said:

A complete overreaction, 18 months ago we were heading straight to the Championship led by a clown and now we are fighting for a Champions League spot while playing in Europe

If anything we are ahead of the process but people are impatient

Thank you, kind sir…

[Villa_Vids]

We are in a strong position at the moment, on course for european football next season with bumper sponsorship deals inbound. Our growth since 2018 is unrivalled in English football, it is very important to remember that fact. We are performing well, don't let Nev and Carra (and the rest) dent our confidence with their phony, scripted media crap! UTV!

[Jas10]

16 hours ago, nick76 said:

Bet we still don’t have a new badge before then….

[Jas10]

As long as we have King Unai (and even NSWE) our future is most definitely bright… 

[paul514]

9 hours ago, Czarnikjak said:

Well, Lerner didn't pull out because of FFP. He pulled out as he couldn't financially  compete with the likes of Man City.

If not for FFP, all of our best players would be playing for Newcastle now.

Currently, to compete, our owners need to put in £100m of their own cash every season into the club. Without ffp, they would need to put in £300m...unlikely they would be willing to do that.

Errr no, they wouldn't if newcastle brought all our expensive players we would have a **** ton of cash to buy more players.

Lets make one thing clear, to be the top the best of the best costs just an insane amount of money and in your example it would cost even more.

We in turn would receive an insane amount of money which we would then pay to foreign clubs for their players which Newcastle would then want to buy. We may never win the league in that world but it wouldn't be that hard to get CL 

[Xela]

Pretty much 5 years ago to the day, we beat small heath at the sty 1-0 thanks to Jack's goal. We started that game below them in the Championship.

Anyone fan complaining, whether on here, or on FB/Twitter etc, about where we are now needs to give their head a wobble.

[ZacSr]

22 hours ago, Leeroy said:

If we continue to sign players from Championship sides or obscure leagues in Europe, or sign players for big money then they can't even get in the side or don't perform, then we will go backwards and then start a spiral of negative outcomes. It has happened before and can happen again. I sincerely hope we know what we are doing and not repeating recent history again. 

I guess signing expensive players has to be worth their money. If a player is expensive, he should perform accordingly. Otherwise he shouldn't be paid his money. Then the situation you are talking about will not occur.
Anyway I think you should be a bit more optimistic. Why be sad when everything is good?

[TRO]

On 11/03/2024 at 10:46, MakemineVanilla said:

No and Yes!

No if you mean fans of a certain age, yes if you mean the youthfully naive, or those who live abroad and have been exposed to toxic optimism.

Writing on behalf of authentic brummies, I would say that we don't do optimistic visions, and I make so bold as to say that, the fans weren't optimistic in 57, 81, 82, or any of the EFL wins.

Assuming Villa survive any FFP strictures, Villa are likely to flirt with the European places but the club is too far behind much richer clubs ever to catch up.

In 1981 we only needed one team to be in transition to win the title and the trophy was only won by the narrowest of margins.

In 1982 Villa didn't play many games to reach the European Cup final and again sneaked past the favourites, who won the trophy following season, while Villa began their decline.

Hopeful yes, but optimist never!

 

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree, with many of those points.

Firstly.....I was optimistic in 1980/81.....I was also optimistic in 1976/77 where the team was swashbuckling and dangerous, a better defence, would have got the top prize for me.....In 1980/81 the defence was improved, and sure enough we got the top prize in the face of Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd and the darlings of the day..Ipswich Town.

secondly....We faced in a knock out competition, (so no second chances of a mini league)...some of the toughest opponents in Europe....Bayern Munich was streets ahead of us in talent.....But the resilience, determination, togetherness, and fortitude won the day

They are pretty underrated minerals you know.

We will always be behind the richer clubs, while we buy players, who offer us no improvement......That is something, we have to face up to....and improve.

We have bought a midfield in McGinn, Luiz, Tielemans and Kamara.....whilst not the best in the league, but damn good,  it has cost us less than £20 mill in fees......That's outrageously good.....and it shows we can do it, whilst not easy to do all of the time.

I still think, we could add a bit more athleticism and physicality to the squad, but with those steals....we should be able to do it......I think if you look around the Prem, there are some very good players bought for south of £20 mill.

We have to stop, looking for excuses, and delving in to defeatism by citing richer clubs, they can't buy everybody......Nobody ever mentions the wasted millions by the top teams...but Liverpool are an exceptions.

Finally.......Under Ron Saunders, I agree the expectation wasn't there.....but the belief, we was hard to beat, was there. I remember vividly going 1-0 up at Villa Park, in 80/81 and thinking the game is over.....We lost 2 games that season to Everton and Ipswich, that was the resolve we had. I have the same feeling now, I had with the '76/77 side, great attacking, no so good defending....I hope Unai puts some time in to it.

UTV

 

 

 

Edited March 12 by TRO

[duke313]

We're heading in the right direction, that's all that matters.  We might get CL this season, we might not, but our name is in the hat for European football every season as long as Unai is here.  

[Talldarkandransome]

Jesus wept, we are fine. We really are ahead of expectations, a few lumps aside 

[Adam2003]

On 11/03/2024 at 04:32, Leeroy said:

• £120m losses with the press saying we'll have to sell key players in summer because we are close to PSR
• Not strengthening sufficiently in January

Whatever the view people have on the premise itself, I chuckled at these complaints being back to back!

[Adam2003]

21 hours ago, MapleVilla said:

We looked exhausted after Thursdays game. Long season, and a load of injuries as well. He can't rotate or freshen up the squad. Spurs were way fresher and better than us in every department. Simple as.

The paradox of European football. It’s way easier to manage a season if you’re not in Europe… which helps you get into Europe…

[Adam2003]

On 11/03/2024 at 05:43, The Fun Factory said:

And that is why we haven't seem the Duchess of Cambridge for three months

Yeah it’s bizarre to me that even our most endlessly cynical fans haven’t realised the downturn in form coincides perfectly with whatever Wills has going on at home 

[A'Villan]

One swallow doesn't make a summer. 

There's a long ways to go before we can determine the answer to OP's question. 

And like one successful season won't define seasons to come, yet to be played. One loss doesn't mean this season's champions league spot is now beyond us.

[John]

On 11/03/2024 at 12:37, Leeroy said:

 

On 11/03/2024 at 08:32, Leeroy said:

Not just in reaction to yesterday. We came into 2024 with loads of positivity, probably the most positive we've been since we were last regularly competitive in the mid 90s. Top 3 in the league and with a a manager we believed could end our nearly 30 years wait for a trophy. 

 

We had a really positive 2023 where we amongst other things:

• Reached our first European competition in 13 years
• Brought in Sevilla's Director of Football who had them winning trophies and getting into Europe every season
• Had our longest winning home run in God knows how long
• Outplayed the treble winners like no side has done to them probably ever
• Were in the top 2 at Christmas for the first time in 25 years

The only negatives were going out of cup competitions to lesser teams (Stevenage, Everton), getting pumped 5-1 to Newcastle on opening day, and losing two players to long term injury in Mings and Buendia. But those negatives were one-offs, they didn't start a spiral of negativity, and the positives far outweighed the negatives.

 

2024 to me has just been a really crap year. Ok, we have managed to retain top 4 so far and beaten teams we should have (Sheffield Utd, Forest, Fulham, Luton, Boro), but even in those wins we looked really ropey for at least one half of the game. And then the negatives:

• £120m losses with the press saying we'll have to sell key players in summer because we are close to PSR
• Not strengthening sufficiently in January when we were in our best position in the league for 25 years, only signing one player for our top 4 squad in a Championship player who hadn't stood out at that level (which I called out at the time) and an 18 year old Serbian right back wo we loaned back for the season, then letting our only other experienced holding midfielder in Dendoncker go out on loan despite now having a serious injury in that position
• Seeing our home form completely destroyed by losing to Newcastle, Chelsea, Man Utd and Spurs all in quick succession, despite being favourites in all those games
• Putting in an awful performance against Ajax in Europe, where again we just played really defensively like we did against Tottenham
• Monchi's signings so far really not working out, with the exception of Pau Torres (although even there, we look poor defensively even when he plays). Tielemans has been ok but for the amount of money he is being paid (£150K a week) he isn't doing enough, and Diaby has been hugely disappointing given the expense and can't even get in the side even with injuries to multiple midfielders. The loan signings haven't made a big enough impact. And then the signings in January were just totally baffling in my opinion, when we were in a great position and should have been trying to improve our first team not sign players for the next 5 years.

 

I'm not trying to tempt fate or be pre-emptive, but I don't know if our future is so bright. If our revenues don't improve quickly, given the rules we are up against, we could easily do a Leicester and get relegated in a few years after looking like a marginal top 4 side. Everton were competing with the big sides not so long ago, now look at them. And so were we in fact before we got relegated in 2016. We seem to have gone all in on Emery, putting all his key men in place and the structure to his liking, but if he leaves either by being poached or by mutual consent then where does that leave us? If we continue to sign players from Championship sides or obscure leagues in Europe, or sign players for big money then they can't even get in the side or don't perform, then we will go backwards and then start a spiral of negative outcomes. It has happened before and can happen again. I sincerely hope we know what we are doing and not repeating recent history again. 

You cannot be serious! Whilst I agree things haven't gone as well as we would all have hoped in recent weeks, it isn't really reasonable to use that, as a reason to describe 2024 as being a "crap year". We could after all, still qualify for the CL at the end of this season and win the Conference League, despite the injuries and suspensions we have had to cope with. 

 Addressing your second set of points:  It is the press saying we'll have to sell key players" not the club. If we had strengthened "sufficiently" in the last window, we would have been inviting a points deduction and would have faced needed to sell players. We may have started these games as favourites, but no game in the PL is a "gimme" and these are teams that most Villa fans would accept are our direct rivals. I don't think an away draw in Europe can be considered an awful performance. It wasn't great, but a solid defensive display has left us in the driving seat, with the home leg to come (albeit also not a gimme). Who would have said "no" to Tielemans on a free? I feel our defence looks worse rather than worse when Pau is in it. Diaby started strongly (unlike Bailey), who is to say with any confidence, he will not, given time match Bailey's current level?

In your final paragraph you claim "we could easily do a Leicester and get relegated in a few years". That would be some fall from grace and not one that I can easily see happening any time soon with our present team, manager and owners. You add that both Everton and Villa prior to our relegation in 2016, were "competing with the big sides not so long ago". Everton have not finished in the top 6 for 10 Seasons and we had not finished higher than 15th in the 4 seasons before going down as the bottom club in 15/16. I'm rather glad that we have "gone all in" on our manager. Doing so, makes him less likely to look to leave, than not doing so. 

I looked for progress at the start of the season and we have delivered. I would have been happy with 6th, but we may do better than that. Football is a game of highs and lows, and I have experienced both since the 1960s. I think the trick is to enjoy the highs and hope that we can maintain them, rather than to anticipate the worst happening, it might not happen after all.  In my opinion: 

On 11/03/2024 at 12:37, Leeroy said:

Those early years in the 80s lasted two years then we were midtable again and relegated five years later. Even bloody Everton were challenging year after year after year during the 80s 

The late 70's were rather good too (including beating Everton in the 1977 LCF) and the return of HDE, with his frugality had much to do with our relegation. Don't forget that we finished 2nd in the league in 89/90 & 92/93 too. 

Edited March 12 by John

[Vive_La_Villa]

It’s the brightest it’s been in about 18 years.  
 

It also is just a reaction to Sunday. If we hadn’t lost that game this thread wouldn’t exist.

Edited March 12 by Vive_La_Villa

[MakemineVanilla]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I respectfully disagree, with many of those points.

Firstly.....I was optimistic in 1980/81.....I was also optimistic in 1976/77 where the team was swashbuckling and dangerous, a better defence, would have got the top prize for me.....In 1980/81 the defence was improved, and sure enough we got the top prize in the face of Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd and the darlings of the day..Ipswich Town.

secondly....We faced in a knock out competition, so no second chances of a mini league...some of the toughest opponents in Europe....Bayern Munich was streets ahead of us in talent.....But the resilience, determination, togetherness, and fortitude won the day

They are pretty underrated minerals you know.

We will always be behind the richer clubs, while we buy players, who offer us no improvement......That is something, we have to face up to....and improve.

We have bought a midfield in McGinn, Luiz, Tielemans and Kamara.....whilst not the best in the league, but damn good,  it has cost us less than £20 mill in fees......That's outrageously good.....and it shows we can do it, whilst not easy to do all of the time.

I still think, we could add a bit more athleticism and physicality to the squad, but with those steals....we should be able to do it......I think if you look around the Prem, there are some very good players bought for south of £20 mill.

We have to stop, looking for excuses, and delving in to defeatism by citing richer clubs, they can't buy everybody......Nobody ever mentions the wasted millions by the top teams...but Liverpool are an exceptions.

Finally.......Under Ron Saunders, I agree the expectation wasn't there.....but the belief, we was hard to beat, was there. I remember vividly going 1-0 up at Villa Park, in 80/81 and thinking the game is over.....We lost 2 games that season to Everton and Ipswich, that was the resolve we had. I have the same feeling now, I had with the '76/77 side, great attacking, no so good defending....I hope Unia puts some time in to it.

UTV

 

 

 

It's all down to personal perception.

Villa 76/77, with Andy Gray banging them in for fun, was a great season and with 22 league wins, when 24 was usually the pass-mark, was undermined by too many losses.

It was one of those seasons when competing on two fronts proved a bridge too far, with 13 losses, which were mostly away from Villa Park - two loses in April finished Villa's league challenge.

I think the increase in the number of games required to win the European Cup these days, favours the rich clubs because they have greater depth to their squads.

I thought the arrival of Peter Withe in 1980 was the catalyst which lit the fuse under Villa, and the team looked like they might win something from the get-go, but when McNaught cocked-up in the home tie with Ipswich, optimism turned into despair.

Villa have a bigger squad these days but there are several positions where Villa don't have a replacement of good enough quality.

[TRO]

33 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It’s the brightest it’s been in about 18 years.  
 

It also is just a reaction to Sunday. If we hadn’t lost that game this thread wouldn’t exist.

It's just an inevitable reaction.....I still see some of the things when we win....but if you mention them then, that would be public enemy no 1 territory.

That game on Sunday, was very disappointing....but more so for those, who have got carried away with there expectations....it can happen, when only results are celebrated, and performances can get overlooked....who really was interested in considering the second half at Luton.....A quick look at the league table and it was all back on track.....very few considered our vulnerabilities that day, just 3 points and " boiled beef and carrots" and away we go......................er ok.

For me, The game was reminiscent of the one where Harry Kane ran riot...and they scored 4 that day.....Son claiming his usual scalp.

I'll be honest....I didn't think we would win, but I thought we had progressed past getting 4 stuck up us.....I would have took the 0-0 at half time, but, I think it was coming.

I don't think much will change in that respect, until we get players in who can go after opponents....and stop their gallop.....McGinn tries his best, but as we saw, frustration won in the end.

Liverpool will do much the same, and we will be having similar conversations.

 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

It's just an inevitable reaction.....I still see some of the things when we win....but if you mention them then, that would be public enemy no 1 territory.

That game on Sunday, was very disappointing....but more so for those, who have got carried away with there expectations....it can happen, when only results are celebrated, and performances can get overlooked....who really was interested in considering the second half at Luton.....A quick look at the league table and it was all back on track.....very few considered our vulnerabilities that day, just 3 points and " boiled beef and carrots" and away we go......................er ok.

For me, The game was reminiscent of the one where Harry Kane ran riot...and they scored 4 that day.....Son claiming his usual scalp.

I'll be honest....I didn't think we would win, but I thought we had progressed past getting 4 stuck up us.....I would have took the 0-0 at half time, but, I think it was coming.

I don't think much will change in that respect, until we get players in who can go after opponents....and stop their gallop.....McGinn tries his best, but as we saw, frustration won in the end.

Liverpool will do much the same, and we will be having similar conversations.

 

 

So our whole future isn’t bright because performances have been impacted by fatigue and injuries? I know you didn’t say that but I this thread was about Villas future. Not Sunday or recent performances so not sure how’s it’s relevant.

By all means moan about the performances on the Spurs thread and any other..I prefer to say my piece and then focus on the many positives. It’s just my nature. Each to their own mate.

[MapleVilla]

3 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

The paradox of European football. It’s way easier to manage a season if you’re not in Europe… which helps you get into Europe…

Exactly. This is what we wanted (European football, not the injuries!) so we're learning to balance everything.