maqroll Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 hours ago, Leeroy said: Not just in reaction to yesterday. We came into 2024 with loads of positivity, probably the most positive we've been since we were last regularly competitive in the mid 90s. Top 3 in the league and with a a manager we believed could end our nearly 30 years wait for a trophy. We had a really positive 2023 where we amongst other things: Reached our first European competition in 13 years Brought in Sevilla's Director of Football who had them winning trophies and getting into Europe every season Had our longest winning home run in God knows how long Outplayed the treble winners like no side has done to them probably ever Were in the top 2 at Christmas for the first time in 25 years The only negatives were going out of cup competitions to lesser teams (Stevenage, Everton), getting pumped 5-1 to Newcastle on opening day, and losing two players to long term injury in Mings and Buendia. But those negatives were one-offs, they didn't start a spiral of negativity, and the positives far outweighed the negatives. 2024 to me has just been a really crap year. Ok, we have managed to retain top 4 so far and beaten teams we should have (Sheffield Utd, Forest, Fulham, Luton, Boro), but even in those wins we looked really ropey for at least one half of the game. And then the negatives: £120m losses with the press saying we'll have to sell key players in summer because we are close to PSR Not strengthening sufficiently in January when we were in our best position in the league for 25 years, only signing one player for our top 4 squad in a Championship player who hadn't stood out at that level (which I called out at the time) and an 18 year old Serbian right back wo we loaned back for the season, then letting our only other experienced holding midfielder in Dendoncker go out on loan despite now having a serious injury in that position Seeing our home form completely destroyed by losing to Newcastle, Chelsea, Man Utd and Spurs all in quick succession, despite being favourites in all those games Putting in an awful performance against Ajax in Europe, where again we just played really defensively like we did against Tottenham Monchi's signings so far really not working out, with the exception of Pau Torres (although even there, we look poor defensively even when he plays). Tielemans has been ok but for the amount of money he is being paid (£150K a week) he isn't doing enough, and Diaby has been hugely disappointing given the expense and can't even get in the side even with injuries to multiple midfielders. The loan signings haven't made a big enough impact. And then the signings in January were just totally baffling in my opinion, when we were in a great position and should have been trying to improve our first team not sign players for the next 5 years. I'm not trying to tempt fate or be pre-emptive, but I don't know if our future is so bright. If our revenues don't improve quickly, given the rules we are up against, we could easily do a Leicester and get relegated in a few years after looking like a marginal top 4 side. Everton were competing with the big sides not so long ago, now look at them. And so were we in fact before we got relegated in 2016. We seem to have gone all in on Emery, putting all his key men in place and the structure to his liking, but if he leaves either by being poached or by mutual consent then where does that leave us? If we continue to sign players from Championship sides or obscure leagues in Europe, or sign players for big money then they can't even get in the side or don't perform, then we will go backwards and then start a spiral of negative outcomes. It has happened before and can happen again. I sincerely hope we know what we are doing and not repeating recent history again. I totally understand your anxiety, but it's important to keep things in perspective. We made it out of the Championship by the skin of our teeth just three years ago. As long as the club stays smart financially, we will be fine. We might not win the league anytime soon, but we'll be top 6 and in cups, every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 52 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: I think as a fan base we really swing from one extreme to another. We are 4th in March! First time really in 25 years we are in this position. Also still in a cup competition One caveat, I do think things have been on the slide off the pitch but quickly rectified if they improve Comms on these infrastructure and identify issues. I think the fan base mirrors the performances and results of the team. We seem to be able to court the ridiculous and sublime, easier than most teams. The disparity, between our best performances and our worst are stark....No wonder the fanbase is Neurotic. We will all have Bipolar by the season end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 6 minutes ago, maqroll said: I totally understand your anxiety, but it's important to keep things in perspective. We made it out of the Championship by the skin of our teeth just three years ago. As long as the club stays smart financially, we will be fine. We might not win the league anytime soon, but we'll be top 6 and in cups, every year. It is important to keep things in perspective.....I am not going to quote the past, because it has gone, we have navigated it, and it's behind us, warts 'n all. I think expectation is the thing, perspective must be given. We are not going to be able to buy the league Title, Like Man City and Chelsea have done....and it's going to be difficult to compete with the trophy record of Liverpool.....Man Utd are still a huge Draw, and Spurs and Arsenal in the smoke with a great infrastructure are massive attractions.....Thats 6 teams with mentioning the financial clout of Newcastle. The league is not, impossible, but likely improbable.....I look at Leicester and Ourselves, with a huge dollop of luck, as you need.....But the only smidgen of a chance is by getting the right players. Whilst we are not amongst the top earners in the League, and our revenues are dwarfed by those clubs, we do have owners with financial wherewithal. So.....getting the right players, and getting them to blend and perform, is our only chance....The academy is also paramount in producing the odd one or two, to compliment shrewd additions.....Monchi will have a pivotal role in all of this. Make no mistake.....We get recruitment wrong, it's mediocre for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) It'll be on each individual how bright you think it is and it certainly won't be a collective response as we'll all have different expectations and some of us will naturally be glass half empty merchants whilst others will be glass half full. For me having never contemplated us challenging for champs league qualification this season then the future is probably brighter than I thought it would be. I expected at this stage to be sniffing around 6th/7th spot and to hopefully still be in at least one cup competition. We've far exceeded that. Going forward I think 12 points from a possible 30 will get us top 5 and I think despite the injuries/suspensions/us losing our way a little that is very much doable and that would be a remarkable achievement. Add a cup win to that, or even a cup win and a top 6 finish, and that is dreamland territory. Beyond that I think right from the top of the club down the will and the wherewithal is there to build on whatever is achieved this season. So for me the immediate future is brighter than I thought it would be at this stage and beyond that it looks very bright going forwards. Edited March 11 by markavfc40 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted March 11 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted March 11 We will all have our own idea of how bright our future is, I think we're progressing nicely, we're increasing incomes year on year and hopefully about to make a big jump on that through our sponsorship deals, we have a good squad with a lot of value in it, a good academy that's starting to produce following it's revamp and very good owners. There will be setbacks, both on the pitch and off, but I think we're well positioned to establish ourselves among the 'great eight' who will be competing for stuff over the next few years. I'm enjoying the brightness of now, for me, that's always the best way to do it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Some posters need to grow up, remember where we’ve been and stay away from the keyboard… 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLVillan Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 The majority of problems clubs like ours face is down to the farce that is FFP/PSR or whatever they've labeled it now. It was the reason why Lerner pulled the plug, it's the reason Leicester weren't able to build on their league win in 2016 and sold their best players and why Everton are in deep now. What is the most galling is that the majority of the football-supporting public don't see it, or refuse to see it. The media and the so-called "big six" have complete control and the media hate the fact that we are gate-crashing. If we do finish fourth or even fifth it will be a monumental achievement. Then watch the media do everything they can to unsettle Emery by "linking" him to every single vacancy. It's all very well saying we should have strengthened here and bought there, but simply put, the rules won't let us. Nothing to do with how much money our owners have (Leicester's were minted too). Our current midfield of McGinn, Kamara, Luiz and Tielemans cost less than ManUre's fourth choice centre back. Take a step back, look at the numbers and realize that we are punching so far above our weight... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said: No and Yes! No if you mean fans of a certain age, yes if you mean the youthfully naive, or those who live abroad and have been exposed to toxic optimism. Writing on behalf of authentic brummies, I would say that we don't do optimistic visions, and I make so bold as to say that, the fans weren't optimistic in 57, 81, 82, or any of the EFL wins. Assuming Villa survive any FFP strictures, Villa are likely to flirt with the European places but the club is too far behind much richer clubs ever to catch up. In 1981 we only needed one team to be in transition to win the title and the trophy was only won by the narrowest of margins. In 1982 Villa didn't play many games to reach the European Cup final and again sneaked past the favourites, who won the trophy following season, while Villa began their decline. Hopeful yes, but optimist never! This is kind of how I see it too. Never really optimistic even in the highs because success never lasts with Villa. Tottenham have had 15 years of either finishing top 4 or being disappointed to not finish in the top 4 while we in our best season in 25 years probably won't even make it because it always seems a step too far for us. Those early years in the 80s lasted two years then we were midtable again and relegated five years later. Even bloody Everton were challenging year after year after year during the 80s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 18 minutes ago, thabucks said: Some posters need to grow up, remember where we’ve been and stay away from the keyboard… I do think some people could do with a reality check; that said, we can't forever be looking back on where we've been. How long are we going to do that for? Do you think Man City fans spent years thinking about Division Two when they were trying to break into the top four? Do Newcastle talk about their time in the championship all the time this season and feel grateful for their position despite not being in the top six? Did United do that under Ferguson when they hit the occasional blip in form etc? I'm afraid to say, we will never be champions of anything until we start acting like champions and demanding those standards. There's reality, and then there's the place we want to be, and after yesterday they seem very far apart right now. We did not approach that game yesterday as conquerors - we played 5 at the back for the first time in ages, tried to sit back and catch them on the break thus allowing them 70% possession on our own turf. However you feel about the reaction of some people here, it truly was like watching the Villa of old. Forever looking back on where we've been and feeling grateful for progress is not going to get us to the champions league; it might not even keep us in the top half for next season if we miss out on CL and end up falling foul of FFP. That's a distinct possibility. We simply have to take this opportunity to push on to new heights, if we don't, it could very probably be 2010 all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 2 hours ago, cb_82 said: Emery said recently there were 7 better teams and fans didn't like it, i think its more down to language barrier re the term better but Arsenal/United/Spurs/Liverpool/City/Chelsea and Newcastle after CL qualification all have much bigger resources at the top end alongside huge revenues, and the point Emery has been making is we are punching above our weight being in the thick of that group and significantly better in certain areas. We have 10 games to go and if we take 12-13 points in that time we will finish 5th for the first time since 96-97 season so even if we dont get 4th we have done something we haven't done in nearly 30 years alongside the opportunity to win a trophy which is very much alive at the moment I think some of the over reaction i have read and heard since yesterday has bordered on entitlement and although i get the disappointment in parts has been embarrassing I didn't like it either because it was playing on Villa the plucky underdog which O'Neill used to do when we were fighting for top 4 too, but he's not wrong. We have spent quite a lot over the years, but nothing in comparison to much bigger teams than us like Tottenham, Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool. Newcastle will be able to outspend us too because of their owners' oil wealth and have been a sleeping giant for 20 years, they are above us in the pecking order. And all that money Chelsea have spent is surely going to pay off at some point, although they as well as Man City should be done for financial cheating given they have both clearly broken financial rules. We are on a similar level to West Ham and Brighton which is absolutely fine. If we finish 8th for 10 seasons in a row I'll be happy with that. I'm not being impatient or entitled, I'm just asking the question. We have a volatile history and when we try to punch above our weight we end up punching well below our weight before we find our way back to our norm again, I don't want that to happen this time round. We've intruded on those bigger teams' perches and it wasn't going to last once they got their houses in order. It's just a shame that if we do miss out we might not get another opportunity for a while and off the pitch things are not looking as rosy as they were 12 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 3 hours ago, Zatman said: A complete overreaction, 18 months ago we were heading straight to the Championship led by a clown and now we are fighting for a Champions League spot while playing in Europe If anything we are ahead of the process but people are impatient We played like a Gerrard team yesterday tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 It's all been downhill ever since the Bartons closed. The two are interlinked cosmically. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 26 minutes ago, FLVillan said: The majority of problems clubs like ours face is down to the farce that is FFP/PSR or whatever they've labeled it now. It was the reason why Lerner pulled the plug, it's the reason Leicester weren't able to build on their league win in 2016 and sold their best players and why Everton are in deep now. What is the most galling is that the majority of the football-supporting public don't see it, or refuse to see it. The media and the so-called "big six" have complete control and the media hate the fact that we are gate-crashing. If we do finish fourth or even fifth it will be a monumental achievement. Then watch the media do everything they can to unsettle Emery by "linking" him to every single vacancy. It's all very well saying we should have strengthened here and bought there, but simply put, the rules won't let us. Nothing to do with how much money our owners have (Leicester's were minted too). Our current midfield of McGinn, Kamara, Luiz and Tielemans cost less than ManUre's fourth choice centre back. Take a step back, look at the numbers and realize that we are punching so far above our weight... We have spent enough to be around 8th or 9th. You're just focusing on central midfield (and ignoring that we managed to get £30m+ players in Tielemans and Kamara in on free transfers but paid them a fortune for them to sign), we have spent £30m+ on players like Bailey, Watkins, Diaby, Torres, Buendia and £20m+ on Digne, Carlos, Mings, etc. Our wage bill is like the 7th highest in the league I think and above Newcastle's if I'm not mistaken. We are overperforming but don't go overboard, we shouldn't be fighting relegation or anything. We were very clearly underperforming under Gerrard which is why he sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 26 minutes ago, Leeroy said: We played like a Gerrard team yesterday tbh. One game - this self entitled mentality is a sad inditement of the modern football fan imo. The sky falls in after one bad result, toys thrown out the pram. Reality is we’re 4th in the hardest league in the world … 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Life is what you make it. Same sort of thing applies to the future of Aston Villa. We have people who want to achieve great things, we are still in the fairly early stages of a process. We clearly are far from perfect, but I don’t have any doubt that we will see continuous improvement for the next few years at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthEastVillan Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) I do understand this is a bit of a knee jerk reaction to yesterday's result, and were all suffering due to the nature of it. It's important to realise that this improvement will take time. Backsteps are just an inevitable symptom of progress. I think we were spoilt somewhat by such an amazing 2023 and expectations were through the roof. Progress has stalled a bit lately, but let's not forget where we were 4 years ago! We've come on leaps and bounds in a short period of time. It's a marathon not a sprint (unless you're Man City ) and as it stands we're still 4th and in a European Cup with a good chance of winning it. Edited March 11 by NorthEastVillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted March 11 Author Share Posted March 11 20 minutes ago, thabucks said: One game - this self entitled mentality is a sad inditement of the modern football fan imo. The sky falls in after one bad result, toys thrown out the pram. Reality is we’re 4th in the hardest league in the world … *Indictment It may only be one game but Emery's style was supposed to be a blueprint for how we play football. Ange never changes his principles, neither does Arteta or Guardiola, or Klopp, or de Zerbi. They try to play football every game. I thought that is what Emery wanted to do too, but yesterday was like Bruce ball. Emery is still the best manager we have had in 30 years but it's astounding that he starts playing long ball football against a direct rival. I understand adaptation but we paid Tottenham too much respect, they aren't that good, and it was counterproductive because we lost 4-0 and were already 2-0 down with 11 v 11. I'm actually less angry about the result (as bad as it was) and more angry about the long balls, long throws, and agrarian style of football we played. It was like watching an Allardyce team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
479Villan Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 5 hours ago, Leeroy said: (which I called out at the time) That was a lot of words to wrap around this bit right here. Congratulations, Morgan Rogers has not had an astounding Aston Villa campaign since he was signed not quite 40 days ago. But, I enjoy your "we are going to have to sell big players to avoid PSR" and then you say "Why didn't we sign any players in January?" like these 2 statements have nothing at all to do with one another. And you had them as neighboring bullet points! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 hours ago, Leeroy said: This is kind of how I see it too. Never really optimistic even in the highs because success never lasts with Villa. Tottenham have had 15 years of either finishing top 4 or being disappointed to not finish in the top 4 while we in our best season in 25 years probably won't even make it because it always seems a step too far for us. Those early years in the 80s lasted two years then we were midtable again and relegated five years later. Even bloody Everton were challenging year after year after year during the 80s Just to put yesterday into perspective, I usually read H&V's Woodhall piece to cheer myself up after a defeat, but even he couldn't manage to find a positive side when I looked this morning. I tend to think that Everton's present trouble arose after they qualified for Europe - gambled on signings that let them down, and ended up in deep shit. Looking at Villa's record signing's performance yesterday, reminded me of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) 4 hours ago, TRO said: It is important to keep things in perspective.....I am not going to quote the past, because it has gone, we have navigated it, and it's behind us, warts 'n all. I think expectation is the thing, perspective must be given. We are not going to be able to buy the league Title, Like Man City and Chelsea have done....and it's going to be difficult to compete with the trophy record of Liverpool.....Man Utd are still a huge Draw, and Spurs and Arsenal in the smoke with a great infrastructure are massive attractions.....Thats 6 teams with mentioning the financial clout of Newcastle. The league is not, impossible, but likely improbable.....I look at Leicester and Ourselves, with a huge dollop of luck, as you need.....But the only smidgen of a chance is by getting the right players. Whilst we are not amongst the top earners in the League, and our revenues are dwarfed by those clubs, we do have owners with financial wherewithal. So.....getting the right players, and getting them to blend and perform, is our only chance....The academy is also paramount in producing the odd one or two, to compliment shrewd additions.....Monchi will have a pivotal role in all of this. Make no mistake.....We get recruitment wrong, it's mediocre for us. On early returns, Monchi gets about a B-. Pretty sure Tielemans wasn't his idea, but Tielemans is about a B- anyway. So that leaves Diaby, Torres and Zaniolo. Edited March 11 by maqroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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