Ratings & Reactions: Man Utd v Villa

[the_eristic]

All we needed 2nd half was control and patience, all we did was play sloppier and sloppier til we completely undid ourselves. Awful performances throughout the team, and of course just had to be against the worst United side in decades.

[Davkaus]

7 hours ago, Xela said:

No wonder we are renowned for having difficult and fickle fans. Some of the overreactions make me despair.

Tonight was disappointing, no doubt, but no need for meltdowns. 

Yup, couple of bad results doesn't throw the season's progress in the bin.

It's the manner of it that rankles. If we lost 1-0 in a tedious game in which we were poor we'd all be a lot less pissed off, I think. Throwing the 2-0 away in that manner is sickening.

[rjw63]

7 hours ago, Xela said:

No wonder we are renowned for having difficult and fickle fans. Some of the overreactions make me despair.

Tonight was disappointing, no doubt, but no need for meltdowns. 

What do you mean by “meltdown “?

That is at least the third time, I might have missed one or two, that we have lost 3-2 to these words removed after being in front. I think supporters have every right to be angry. Shite performance.

Certainly ruined my evening which had been excellent pre-9 o’clock 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

We didn’t get bullied. We switched off. We fell asleep. We stopped passing and moving. We’ve been dealing with ‘bullies’ all season. 

call it what you will, we were second best in most of the ground duels, we simply couldn't stay on the ball.

[HalfTimePost]

Tbh the most frustrating thing is it's the first time I don't think he's really seen the issues. There's been calls he's made in the past that I disagreed with - there always will be - but this is the first time I think I've really disagreed with his post match presser as well.

He's saying we lost it in the final 30 mins and it's disappointing after the first 60 minutes. Ok, yeah, the goals came then. But we didn't deserve to win the match based on the first 60 minutes.

The first 30 minutes, yeah, sure, we looked like potential Champions, we were destroying them. Onana was bricking it every time he got the ball to his feet. Players were moaning at each other.

After that? It was like early 2000s United. We were constantly under it. We should've made changes much much sooner. By the time their 2nd went in, it was the wrong time to bring on Diaby and Zaniolo. Should've done it 20 minutes sooner to give them something else to think about.

Based on the 1st 60mins, we didn't deserve to win the game. It was frustrating that he was happy until then, as it was already clear for a good 30 minutes how that game was going to go if we didn't change something

Edited December 27, 2023 by HalfTimePost

[GeordieVillan]

We aren’t at the stage where we can be without a Pau (and Mings) and Kamara (and Teilemans) and not notice drop off.

We surrendered the initiative after the second goal, for what reason, it’s hard to know.

I do think the high line played a role again, as it has in our other 3 league defeats this year. It brings a lot of benefits that helps us win more games, but it also means we are susceptible to allowing the opponents to make chances and regain a foothold in the game. I like that we didn’t drop into a low block when we got 2-0 up, but obviously it’s natural to question that when you lose in the way we did.

Burnley is huge now, if we win that then we should probably still be in the top 4 going into 2024, and it will just restore a little bit of confidence and pride, and also just press reset a little bit.

We look like we need 3 players in January if we really want to stay in that top 4 - right back, centre-mid and centre forward. Let’s see how serious we are about this!

[TRO]

I'll be honest.....I have seen some great football from us this season in general, and the league position is great.

but for me, we can't defend to the calibre of the rest of the team can play....and that is not just the back 4

In times, where you have to suffocate the opposition, and negate the sting, we are left wanting imo

We let too many teams, back in for my liking and not kill them off, by shutting them out.

I get that my opinion will be in the minority.....but so be it.

[Jas10]

8 hours ago, TomC said:

In form and uninjured, we're deeper than 11.

Emi, Cash, Diego, Konsa, Mings, Digne, Pau, Moreno, Doug, McGinn, Tielemans, Buendia, Diaby, Bailey, JJ, Kamara, Watkins. That's 17 that are capable first teamers.

I'm sure that some will disagree with players in this list (Tom13 about Cash, Delphinho about Bueni) but I don't think too many would narrow that list down past 14 or 15.

Losing both Mings and Bueni for a whole season has hurt with depth, though, because that does reduce the list from 17 to 15. Then take out Tielemans, Pau, Kamara, and Cash as unavailable (Cash is out of form anyway). Then take out Diaby and JJ as out of form. Now you see why we're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

That’s fair mate, but I wasn’t taking into account the long term injuries - maybe intentionally so. Just from the crop we have available in general… it’s not all that really…

Since Ty and Emi got injured… our depth hasn’t been all that to shout about - but the poor form of certain players has been another factor. As well as the delayed return of Moreno and JJ who are not really near peak form or fitness yet - the sooner they are, the better. They both make us a more formidable and dangerous side when they are fit and firing.

We need Diaby to step up now too…

I don’t really rate Cash (although his last ditch defending and high workrate are admirable)… his limitations have been on full display. A definite and obvious area where we can improve and upgrade…

I love Buendia and will be delighted when he returns…

[bose]

I just feel really deflated after that result yesterday. Felt like the old Villa

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

That’s fair mate, but I wasn’t taking into account the long term injuries - maybe intentionally so. Just from the crop we have available in general… it’s not all that really…

Since Ty and Emi got injured… our depth hasn’t been all that to shout about - but the poor form of certain players has been another factor. As well as the delayed return of Moreno and JJ who are not really near peak form or fitness yet - the sooner they are, the better. They both make us a more formidable and dangerous side when they are fit and firing.

We need Diaby to step up now too…

I don’t really rate Cash (although his last ditch defending and high workrate are admirable)… his limitations have been on full display. A definite and obvious area where we can improve and upgrade…

I love Buendia and will be delighted when he returns…

Tyrone is a true defender, with a nose for stopping opponents first, and playing out from the back second. He does what it says on the tin.

We miss him.

Cash lacks consistency for me...too hit and miss. I don't feel convinced by his defending, mainly positional sense.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, the_eristic said:

All we needed 2nd half was control and patience, all we did was play sloppier and sloppier til we completely undid ourselves. Awful performances throughout the team, and of course just had to be against the worst United side in decades.

We might have lost that, if only we was on the pitch.

I was stunned, how JJ stayed on for as long as he did...he was anonymous.

Edited December 27, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, bose said:

I just feel really deflated after that result yesterday. Felt like the old Villa

probably, the best summing up, I have read.

[david-avfc]

1 hour ago, HalfTimePost said:

Tbh the most frustrating thing is it's the first time I don't think he's really seen the issues. There's been calls he's made in the past that I disagreed with - there always will be - but this is the first time I think I've really disagreed with his post match presser as well.

He's saying we lost it in the final 30 mins and it's disappointing after the first 60 minutes. Ok, yeah, the goals came then. But we didn't deserve to win the match based on the first 60 minutes.

The first 30 minutes, yeah, sure, we looked like potential Champions, we were destroying them. Onana was bricking it every time he got the ball to his feet. Players were moaning at each other.

After that? It was like early 2000s United. We were constantly under it. We should've made changes much much sooner. By the time their 2nd went in, it was the wrong time to bring on Diaby and Zaniolo. Should've done it 20 minutes sooner to give them something else to think about.

Based on the 1st 60mins, we didn't deserve to win the game. It was frustrating that he was happy until then, as it was already clear for a good 30 minutes how that game was going to go if we didn't change something

Agreed, really disappointed with Emery last night. It was so obvious what was coming, we took the early lead but the players were obviously done in from the recent matches and once the tide started turning they had nothing left to give. In Emery’s defence we were down to the bare bones in the squad, but there were so many tired performances out there something had to be done even if they’re not his first choice players on the bench 

[smokingzen]

Overall I think our performance and the result last night was on Emery. First 25 minutes was relatively good, but towards the latter part of the first half Man U got their high press working and we struggled to progress the ball out of our half. We played a lot across the back line and nice little intricate triangles near the corner flags and trying to progress up the wings in the same manner but it always broke down under pressure. Credit to Man U last night but they had our number, and the writing was on the wall for the second half if something didn't change.

Maybe if we had some of our more regular players playing we would have had better out balls and transitions, but we didn't. Ramsey is no where near up to speed yet, and whilst Lenglet and Dendonker played generally well IMO from a defensive perspective, and for the goal, I'm not sure they've got quite the same cohesion or skills to progress the ball out.

I would have thought after maybe the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half Emery would have switched our tactics, as whatever was said at half time didn't seem to have changed much, but he didn't and it seemed even when he brought the subs on we kept on trying to play the same way just with different players.

IMO last night, having watched us struggle to play out, we could have switched to quicker long balls over the top bypassing the midfield a little more, stretching their back line and giving them more to think about defensively. We had pace with Watkins, Bailey and later on Diaby, but I don't feel we utilised it. Watkins especially put in a good defensive shift but hardly had any good service.

Obviously Emery has a preferred way of playing, and it's brought us a lot of success, but if the players you have available can't carry that off, and the other team is nullifying that 'way', I think it's time to switch in a game. Dare I say it, but I genuinely think had we switched to a bit of Bruce ball in the second half, playing a more compact lower block in defense and then long balls over the top, we'd have won that game. Man U were 2 down and had to come at us, they still might have got a couple of goals but I believe we'd have got a couple more on the counter.

Principles are great and having an identity and a way of playing, but IMO sometimes you have to switch that up, be pragmatic and close a game out. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by smokingzen

[Tomaszk]

12 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Emery is a man mountain of a manager. I love him and what he’s done at the club. Hell, I hope he’s manager here for many years to come.

BUT. 

He is too strict with the way we play at times and It drives me mad. We’ve lost a couple of cup games by not changing up our style of play with personnel not equipped to play the way he likes to play - fine, I can handle that. Tonight frustrated me a lot more though. We weren’t particularly good for the first half hour but we were better than them and we found ourselves two up. Love them or hate them, United reacted really well to going two down and all of a sudden started playing well and they were causing us problems.

Now, I know we’re down to the bare bones a bit squad wise, but why not change it up at half time or even earlier? I’m not saying bring Zaniolo or Diaby on (the former is rubbish anyway), but why not mix it up a bit? Go long. Go down the channels. They’ve got a 37yr old at centre half. Get him turned and facing his own goal. Get Onana under a few high crosses and shoot a bit more - the bloke is a liability. Alas, no. We continue playing high risk football and playing a risky possession based style that involves our centre halves and midfielders receiving the ball in pressure situations. Absolutely no surprise the overly casual Carlos gives the ball away and they score. No surprise whatsoever. It was like we were waiting to make that mistake. 

Im not saying we should always ‘bang it long’ or ‘get it down the line’, before I’m branded a dinosaur, I’d just like us every now and again to mix it up and adapt to what’s happening on the pitch. Especially when we’re up against a nervous United side under pressure from their home fans.

Build a statue of Emery, cool, but tonight he pissed me off. He’s clearly very stubborn (which can be a positive as much as a negative). 

UTV

All our best performances have been using McGinn and Watkins as direct outlets.

Utd are that bad we should have been able to play without them mind.

[Philosopher]

At 60 minutes we needed changes. It was clear. On 75 minutes I was still wondering why there weren't any changes.

The problem last night was that the players under performing were the likes of McGinn, Ramsey, and Luiz, and we just didn't good alternatives on the bench. We needed Tielemens and Kamara last night.

[onmeedson]

We discovered the true cost of the Kamara red card against sheff , last night we had no ball winner in midfield and allowed unt to steam roller us in that area after the break. Where was the guys to stand up and be counted for us on the night, Ramsey is not fit so we do not have his legs to count on and some of those players seem very fragile to me when the going gets tough. They are no great shakes at the moment but we made them look like world beaters and when you go into a gunfight why would you have the sun in your eyes.

[Tom13]

4 hours ago, CLARETANDBLUEFOXY said:

I often get chastised for my opinion that Jacob Ramsay isn’t that great a player. From time to time he will have a great game but great teams arnt built on “from time to time” players. Personally think he’s nowhere near good enough to be in the first eleven and has been largely anonymous for too many games. Yes he’s just come back from injury but he’s costly us dearly being in our midfield at the moment. 

He had a few good runs of form under Unai and people forget how frustrating he was for long periods. In certain games he can be very good with his powerful running. But, just like you said, he's absolutely anonymous far too often, is poor in tight spaces and his cutbacks from the byline are quite often hit and hope on his left peg.

Maybe he can keep improving but these games where he's just anonymous are infuriating, it's like he's not even trying to get involved.

[striker]

31 minutes ago, bose said:

I just feel really deflated after that result yesterday. Felt like the old Villa

Pretty much spot on!!

Its a mentality issue against Man U.

I've been an Everton & Villa supporter for most of my life so I’m well aware of the historic nature of this game. It was no coincidence losing last night!I

Playing a Man U side finding it hard to score goals, win games with their manager one further loss from the sack while Villa flying high, in terrific form and pundit favourites for the game.

Villa actually found themselves two up and that’s when the old Villa mentality showed its ugly face again. Players couldn’t believe their luck against the red shirted devil's so when the second half started Villa retreated in mind and body thereby giving the initiative straight back to a very poor side and paid the usual price!

Most other teams would have went for the jugular in the second half and got that all important third goal sending Utd fans home,  making Old Trafford into a ghost town and yet another coffin for a Utd manager. But this was the red shirts of Man U so Villa retreated!

I’m also not sure about Emery’s post match analysis? Talking about how great it was to have 39 points at this stage of the season. Was this a cute deflection or simply a shrug of the shoulder accepting a habitual defeat against Man U?

Whatever it was, it sent completely the wrong message to the players.

Most if not all top class managers would have been livid at that second half performance and called the players out for it but, it was Man U you see!

Both the manager and players let the fans down last night!

[Tom13]

2 minutes ago, striker said:

Pretty much spot on!!

Its a mentality issue against Man U.

I've been an Everton & Villa supporter for most of my life so I’m well aware of the historic nature of this game. It was no coincidence losing last night!I

Playing a Man U side finding it hard to score goals, win games with their manager one further loss from the sack while Villa flying high, in terrific form and pundit favourites for the game.

Villa actually found themselves two up and that’s when the old Villa mentality showed its ugly face again. Players couldn’t believe their luck against the red shirted devil's so when the second half started Villa retreated in mind and body thereby giving the initiative straight back to a very poor side and paid the usual price!

Most other teams would have went for the jugular in the second half and got that all important third goal sending Utd fans home,  making Old Trafford into a ghost town and yet another coffin for a Utd manager. But this was the red shirts of Man U so Villa retreated!

I’m also not sure about Emery’s post match analysis? Talking about how great it was to have 39 points at this stage of the season. Was this a cute deflection or simply a shrug of the shoulder accepting a habitual defeat against Man U?

Whatever it was, it sent completely the wrong message to the players.

Most if not all top class managers would have been livid at that second half performance and called the players out for it but, it was Man U you see!

Both the manager and players let the fans down last night!

I didn't agree with Emery saying we were good for 60 minutes either, but behind closed doors it'll be a different story. The players certainly won't be getting off lightly.