The relative strength of the premier league

[Pinebro]

Wanted to make a thread about this for a while.

We've seen West Ham who was really struggling last season breeze their way through to the Conference final and it was mind boggling seeing the difference in quality against Hibbs.

How strong in the premier league if you compare it to the other top leagues in Europe? And I'm not just talking about the top 2 or 3 teams but the league as a whole.

[Zatman]

Its because of financial doping why Its stronger. Dendoncker yearly salary is probably more than Hibs wage budget for the year

Yet despite that is still a lot of crap in the league as we saw Sunday with Everton

[Follyfoot]

31 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Wanted to make a thread about this for a while.

We've seen West Ham who was really struggling last season breeze their way through to the Conference final and it was mind boggling seeing the difference in quality against Hibbs.

How strong in the premier league if you compare it to the other top leagues in Europe? And I'm not just talking about the top 2 or 3 teams but the league as a whole.

Very 

[Rds1983]

33 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Its because of financial doping why Its stronger. Dendoncker yearly salary is probably more than Hibs wage budget for the year

Yet despite that is still a lot of crap in the league as we saw Sunday with Everton

Financial doping is the wrong term for the whole Premier League.

Financial doping is where an owner pumps their personal wealth into the club rather than relying on revenue generated naturally by the team. 

The collective wealth of the league comes from the TV deals. Which right or wrong have been negotiated based off interest in the league as a whole.

Financial doping would apply more to clubs like City who have worked around FFP or leagues like Saudi.

I'm not actually that against financial doping. If an owner wants to spend their own money then why not? I am against owners spending ridiculous sums and putting it on the club causing them to be in debt and risk being wound up. 

[Zatman]

15 minutes ago, Rds1983 said:

Financial doping is the wrong term for the whole Premier League.

Financial doping is where an owner pumps their personal wealth into the club rather than relying on revenue generated naturally by the team. 

The collective wealth of the league comes from the TV deals. Which right or wrong have been negotiated based off interest in the league as a whole.

Financial doping would apply more to clubs like City who have worked around FFP or leagues like Saudi.

I'm not actually that against financial doping. If an owner wants to spend their own money then why not? I am against owners spending ridiculous sums and putting it on the club causing them to be in debt and risk being wound up. 

Dunno Man United getting millions for a Nigerian toiletries contract for example is as bad for me

[Rds1983]

16 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Dunno Man United getting millions for a Nigerian toiletries contract for example is as bad for me

Didn't disagree, but it's still not financial doping.

It's an amount that Utd can generate based off their global interest, it's not coming from the owners pocket.

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, Pinebro said:

Wanted to make a thread about this for a while.

We've seen West Ham who was really struggling last season breeze their way through to the Conference final and it was mind boggling seeing the difference in quality against Hibbs.

How strong in the premier league if you compare it to the other top leagues in Europe? And I'm not just talking about the top 2 or 3 teams but the league as a whole.

It’s the strongest league in World football and it’s not even close. 

[ender4]

Last 10 years:

Spain - 24 teams in European semi-finals

England -  23 teams in European semi-finals 

I think it's only in the last 3-5 years that we have overtaken Spain.

[PaulC]

Last season only Man City reached the later stages of the champions league. Its strong but more divided than ever. There's Man City then there's the rest and it's not even close. 

[AXD]

1 hour ago, ender4 said:

Last 10 years:

Spain - 24 teams in European semi-finals

England -  23 teams in European semi-finals 

I think it's only in the last 3-5 years that we have overtaken Spain.

Of those Spanish teams, how many were Real or Barca and maybe Atletico? I’m guessing it’s more diverse when it comes to the English sides.

the strength of a league is all teams in it, not just the top sides. PSG is not an indication of the French league.

The PL is strong because of the TV money, so teams like burnley can go shopping in France or the Netherlands for fun. In Spain or Germany, mid-table teams don’t even have that kind of money. The basis comes (imo) from a large fan base paying Sky a lot of money every year, just because football is so popular in the UK (with even in the championship crowds of 20k). Add the interest from outside the Uk for TV money and you have very wealthy clubs.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

Last season only Man City reached the later stages of the champions league. Its strong but more divided than ever. There's Man City then there's the rest and it's not even close. 

There may be more variation in recent league winners, but the last time La Liga's top 3 teams weren't Real/Barca/At Madrid (in any order) was 2011/12 (Valencia, 3rd).

3 minutes ago, AXD said:

Of those Spanish teams, how many were Real or Barca and maybe Atletico? I’m guessing it’s more diverse when it comes to the English sides.

the strength of a league is all teams in it, not just the top sides. PSG is not an indication of the French league.

The PL is strong because of the TV money, so teams like burnley can go shopping in France or the Netherlands for fun. In Spain or Germany, mid-table teams don’t even have that kind of money. The basis comes (imo) from a large fan base paying Sky a lot of money every year, just because football is so popular in the UK (with even in the championship crowds of 20k). Add the interest from outside the Uk for TV money and you have very wealthy clubs.

I reckon it'd be pretty close in European semis to be honest.  Real/Barca/At Madrid for CL but then Sevilla/Villarreal/Valencia for Europa.  I'd guess you're looking at Man City/Liverpool/Spurs/Chelsea for English CL and then also Arsenal and Man Utd in Europa.

But as you say, it's more outside the elite.  The Premier League just has a ridiculous amount of money.

[Mark Albrighton]

Empoli, Getafe, Werder and Crystal Palace to have a mini league of the lower mid table sides to determine the relative strength of each division.

The winner then takes on the sides who finished 8th or 9th from each of the defeated leagues to see how they get on there.

The winning club keeps moving up until it reaches opposition which is sufficiently difficult enough to that it gets hammered by the superior opposition of the other leagues. 

Then we’ll have a better idea on the relative strength and I shall collect my fee from UEFA for founding this new middling tournament.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Mark Albrighton

[gwi1890]

1 hour ago, AXD said:

Of those Spanish teams, how many were Real or Barca and maybe Atletico? I’m guessing it’s more diverse when it comes to the English sides.

the strength of a league is all teams in it, not just the top sides. PSG is not an indication of the French league.

The PL is strong because of the TV money, so teams like burnley can go shopping in France or the Netherlands for fun. In Spain or Germany, mid-table teams don’t even have that kind of money. The basis comes (imo) from a large fan base paying Sky a lot of money every year, just because football is so popular in the UK (with even in the championship crowds of 20k). Add the interest from outside the Uk for TV money and you have very wealthy clubs.

Unai Emery sides accounts for a few of them.

Edited August 25, 2023 by gwi1890

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, AXD said:

Of those Spanish teams, how many were Real or Barca and maybe Atletico? I’m guessing it’s more diverse when it comes to the English sides.

the strength of a league is all teams in it, not just the top sides. PSG is not an indication of the French league.

The PL is strong because of the TV money, so teams like burnley can go shopping in France or the Netherlands for fun. In Spain or Germany, mid-table teams don’t even have that kind of money. The basis comes (imo) from a large fan base paying Sky a lot of money every year, just because football is so popular in the UK (with even in the championship crowds of 20k). Add the interest from outside the Uk for TV money and you have very wealthy clubs.

Villareal and Sevilla won the europa league a few times between them.

Getafe had a really good run a few years ago, fairly sure they beat Ajax and ran Inter Milan close.

Can remember a decade ago Malaga getting loads of Arab money and they had a run to CL QFs where they were robbed last minute by a terrible offside v Dortmund.

In terms of prem there was more diversity in the 2000s when Boro and Fulham were making Uefa cup finals.

[AXD]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

There may be more variation in recent league winners, but the last time La Liga's top 3 teams weren't Real/Barca/At Madrid (in any order) was 2011/12 (Valencia, 3rd).

I reckon it'd be pretty close in European semis to be honest.  Real/Barca/At Madrid for CL but then Sevilla/Villarreal/Valencia for Europa.  I'd guess you're looking at Man City/Liverpool/Spurs/Chelsea for English CL and then also Arsenal and Man Utd in Europa.

But as you say, it's more outside the elite.  The Premier League just has a ridiculous amount of money.

Correct, I was thinking about CL only, while the Spanish do very well in the EL as well.

[KAZZAM]

I think the 'top 6' plus Villa, Newky, Bha, Brentford, Wham are 11/20 best sides in the world. 

 

[bobzy]

47 minutes ago, KAZZAM said:

I think the 'top 6' plus Villa, Newky, Bha, Brentford, Wham are 11/20 best sides in the world. 

Nah, I don't think that's right.

Off the top of my head, Real Madrid, Barcelona, At Madrid, Inter Milan, AC Milan, Juventus, Napoli, Bayern Munich, Dortmund, PSG, Benfica and Porto are all better sides than Us/Brighton/Brentford/West Ham and then you've got the step down into marginally second tier teams such as Sevilla, Real Sociedad, Villarreal, Real Betis, RB Leipzig, Leverkusen, Lazio, Atalanta, Roma etc.

[KAZZAM]

2 hours ago, bobzy said:

Nah, I don't think that's right.

Off the top of my head, Real Madrid, Barcelona, At Madrid, Inter Milan, AC Milan, Juventus, Napoli, Bayern Munich, Dortmund, PSG, Benfica and Porto are all better sides than Us/Brighton/Brentford/West Ham and then you've got the step down into marginally second tier teams such as Sevilla, Real Sociedad, Villarreal, Real Betis, RB Leipzig, Leverkusen, Lazio, Atalanta, Roma etc.

Benfica and Porto, no. 

[villa4europe]

9 hours ago, bobzy said:

It’s the strongest league in World football and it’s not even close. 

Off the field in particular, no one can compete with the revenue generated and therefore spending power

On the field I don't watch enough to be entirely sure but I still think mentally, culturally the English are a bit weird, not many teams have the same killer mentality as say real Madrid or bayern, this where like Sevilla love the europa league but English teams, fans and media all consider it beneath them and dont care, you can say that on paper the 12th placed PL team should smash the 12th place la liga team but reality there's every danger that 12th place PL team wouldnt play a full strength team or play at 100%

It depends what you think the PL is, fiercely competitive and anyone can beat anyone because all the teams are so good or its because most of the teams are actually quite frail, the idea that Chelsea and their £2bn squad could feasibly lose to Luton is a negative reflection on Chelsea not a positive reflection on Luton

So long story short... I think it's the biggest and most powerful league in the world with the most big teams capable of under performing

[Demitri_C]

12 hours ago, Zatman said:

Its because of financial doping why Its stronger. Dendoncker yearly salary is probably more than Hibs wage budget for the year

 

This

And soon you will see it in the saudi league