Nicolò Zaniolo

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

9 hours ago, smg said:

No but the idea of the bad game sticks in some posters minds and as soon as the player makes a mistake in the next game it gets jumped on and then this spreads game after game picking up others as it goes. In recent seasons Konsa, McGinn, Watkins, Digne and now Zaniolo have all been selected for this treatment by some fans .

Don't forget Leon Bailey is only a couple of poor performances away from being up there with the " worst signings in our history " again lol

[allani]

8 hours ago, DakotaVilla said:

And more often than not those players have had poor runs of form.

It’s perfectly reasonable to question Zaniolo at the moment and to want to give Bailey a few games now before Ramsey comes in and makes it his own position again.

The focus will then go to Matty Cash because he is then clearly the weakest member of the XI and the next one that needs to be upgraded. 

My counter to that is that Bailey and Zaniolo are both better playing on the right with a more attacking "objective" (Zaniolo had started I think 3 games on the left before coming to Villa).  When Zaniolo plays for us he's been playing in the Buendia / Ramsey - "wide" left midfield position to try and drive at the opposition defence.  Kind of mirroring the role that McGinn plays on the right.  However, this means that most of the time he's receiving the ball he's doing so on the wrong foot or in positions where he can't turn / twist / attack the space in the same way as he has been used to during his career.

When Bailey comes on - we tend to shift McGinn into the "wide" left midfield role and then either cover the defensive side by getting Cash to drop slightly deeper or get Konsa or Kamara to move slightly further right (although that is sometimes less noticeable because they do that when Cash is playing a more attacking role.

McGinn is generally better when he plays on the right rather than the left - so playing Bailey does have an impact on McGinn as well. 

I would be interested to see whether if we played Zaniolo in the Bailey role (shifting McGinn to the Ramsey position) whether it would feel more natural for him as it is closer to where he has played before.  I'll also be interested to see whether things change when Ramsey returns and whether that will mean that Zaniolo returns to playing on the right side or whether Emery and his coaches think that longer term Zaniolo and Ramsey are our left-side midfield options.  I also think that Zaniolo is the most natural cover for Diaby (based on current squad / injuries) and so the more he plays (and hopefully the sooner he hits form) the more that we can rotate them.

[smg]

3 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Don't forget Leon Bailey is only a couple of poor performances away from being up there with the " worst signings in our history " again lol

Remembered him after I posted couldn’t be arsed to change it but you are totally right.

[Zatman]

14 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Claret and Blue podcast talking about the tedium of section of fans looking for scapegoat after every loss specifically Zaniolo from Forest game. Other podcasts have addressed as well. It's ridiculous and boring for where we're at

He isn't a scapegoat, he just isn't very good

I watched him in Italy and is no different. Guy has talent but no football brain. 

If he was from say Bulgaria and his name was Tonev he wouldn't get as much sympathy

[DakotaVilla]

He’s definitely worth a place in the squad and god knows this betting thing would be giving him nightmares. Give him time and he’ll show value but looks like he’ll have to win his shirt back. 

[ozvillafan]

5 hours ago, Zatman said:

He isn't a scapegoat, he just isn't very good

I watched him in Italy and is no different. Guy has talent but no football brain. 

If he was from say Bulgaria and his name was Tonev he wouldn't get as much sympathy

I can't comment as I haven't seen him previously.

And there is some truth in Villa fans looking for a scapegoat (shame Buendia wasn't playing, eh?)

But the truth is that Zaniolo has all the physical attributes and good technical ability....

.. but zero output. Most balls played to him result in either a turnover or a wayward shot.

In the first half vs Forest it seemed clear to me that they identified 2 targets to press hard and double team when we had the ball: Kamara and Zaniolo. And it worked.

[lexicon]

Players can't play themselves into form without actually playing. A man who knows more about football than the rest of us combined believes in him and the most productive thing to do at this stage is back him and hope he turns it around. 

[MakemineVanilla]

There's no doubt about his technical ability but his decision-making needs to get better, and I think he needs to give himself a tad more time in front of goal.

Having watched the two Milan clubs last season, which was always a bit frantic, I think he just has to adapt to the tempo of the English game.

Better luck might help him along too.

[avfc1982am]

9 hours ago, Zatman said:

He isn't a scapegoat, he just isn't very good

I watched him in Italy and is no different. Guy has talent but no football brain. 

If he was from say Bulgaria and his name was Tonev he wouldn't get as much sympathy

Why would Emery play him if he thought the same as you? Do you think Emery hasn't looked into his background and assessed if he is good enough, or do you think Emery is just a poor judge in this instance and doesn't know what he's doing and you know better? 

If what you say is true then perhaps we've all made a mistake thinking Emery knows what he's doing. 

 

[Mark Albrighton]

35 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Players can't play themselves into form without actually playing. A man who knows more about football than the rest of us combined believes in him and the most productive thing to do at this stage is back him and hope he turns it around. 

 

13 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Why would Emery play him if he thought the same as you? Do you think Emery hasn't looked into his background and assessed if he is good enough, or do you think Emery is just a poor judge in this instance and doesn't know what he's doing and you know better? 

If what you say is true then perhaps we've all made a mistake thinking Emery knows what he's doing. 

 

Emery has also taken him off at half time in consecutive games. I assume he wouldn’t do that if he was thrilled with Zaniolo’s performances.

I haven’t got a horse in the race. I hope Zaniolo does great to the point that make the move permanent the obvious thing to do.

As an aside, it does kinda make conversations somewhat redundant if it ultimately boils down to “Well Emery knows more than you”.

While it’s of course true, does that mean people can’t say when they think a player is being ineffective without the retort “Emery knows more”? It kinda goes without saying, doesn’t it? It renders quite a lot of the conversation on VT null and void.

I’ve said before, anyone who has ever posted their preferred starting eleven for a particular game, anyone who has ever questioned why X is or isn’t starting, anyone asking why didn’t we buy another player to challenge X, anyone saying we SHOULD buy another player to challenge X…what you think you know better than Emery do you? 

We shouldn’t be seeing any of those sorts of posts ever again because no one here is in the position of telling Emery how to do his job.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

11 hours ago, Zatman said:

He isn't a scapegoat, he just isn't very good

I watched him in Italy and is no different. Guy has talent but no football brain. 

If he was from say Bulgaria and his name was Tonev he wouldn't get as much sympathy

I'm hoping you're wrong!

 

[avfc1982am]

9 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

 

Emery has also taken him off at half time in consecutive games. I assume he wouldn’t do that if he was thrilled with Zaniolo’s performances.

I haven’t got a horse in the race. I hope Zaniolo does great to the point that make the move permanent the obvious thing to do.

As an aside, it does kinda make conversations somewhat redundant if it ultimately boils down to “Well Emery knows more than you”.

While it’s of course true, does that mean people can’t say when they think a player is being ineffective without the retort “Emery knows more”? It kinda goes without saying, doesn’t it? It renders quite a lot of the conversation on VT null and void.

I’ve said before, anyone who has ever posted their preferred starting eleven for a particular game, anyone who has ever questioned why X is or isn’t starting, anyone asking why didn’t we buy another player to challenge X, anyone saying we SHOULD buy another player to challenge X…what you think you know better than Emery do you? 

We shouldn’t be seeing any of those sorts of posts ever again because no one here is in the position of telling Emery how to do his job.

Maybe if most the criticism's were actually constructive then there would be something to debate or discuss without the need for using the managers experience to justify the lad being here. That isn't the case though is it really? You can look back through pages on just this thread whereby he's been called "shit", "crap", or just "not very good". Then you get the "send him back" posts. So whilst I do agree that using the manager as some sort of excuse for Zaniolo being here doesn't encourage debate, it's really only being used against the posts that actually say nothing constructive in them. 

[TRO]

16 hours ago, allani said:

My counter to that is that Bailey and Zaniolo are both better playing on the right with a more attacking "objective" (Zaniolo had started I think 3 games on the left before coming to Villa).  When Zaniolo plays for us he's been playing in the Buendia / Ramsey - "wide" left midfield position to try and drive at the opposition defence.  Kind of mirroring the role that McGinn plays on the right.  However, this means that most of the time he's receiving the ball he's doing so on the wrong foot or in positions where he can't turn / twist / attack the space in the same way as he has been used to during his career.

When Bailey comes on - we tend to shift McGinn into the "wide" left midfield role and then either cover the defensive side by getting Cash to drop slightly deeper or get Konsa or Kamara to move slightly further right (although that is sometimes less noticeable because they do that when Cash is playing a more attacking role.

McGinn is generally better when he plays on the right rather than the left - so playing Bailey does have an impact on McGinn as well. 

I would be interested to see whether if we played Zaniolo in the Bailey role (shifting McGinn to the Ramsey position) whether it would feel more natural for him as it is closer to where he has played before.  I'll also be interested to see whether things change when Ramsey returns and whether that will mean that Zaniolo returns to playing on the right side or whether Emery and his coaches think that longer term Zaniolo and Ramsey are our left-side midfield options.  I also think that Zaniolo is the most natural cover for Diaby (based on current squad / injuries) and so the more he plays (and hopefully the sooner he hits form) the more that we can rotate them.

My concern with him is simply staying in possession.....now thats not asking much from an International player.

He loses the ball in the most tentative challenges.....not sure why?....but its surely not a good trait.

Jury is still out.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, avfc1982am said:

Why would Emery play him if he thought the same as you? Do you think Emery hasn't looked into his background and assessed if he is good enough, or do you think Emery is just a poor judge in this instance and doesn't know what he's doing and you know better? 

If what you say is true then perhaps we've all made a mistake thinking Emery knows what he's doing. 

 

Thats a bit profound, if you don't mind me saying.

Many fans with years of experience as spectators, know what they are looking at,  too......its not mutually exclusive.

Edited November 8, 2023 by TRO

[skarroki]

11 hours ago, Zatman said:

He isn't a scapegoat, he just isn't very good

I watched him in Italy and is no different. Guy has talent but no football brain. 

If he was from say Bulgaria and his name was Tonev he wouldn't get as much sympathy

I assume I've not watched the amount of games you have when he was in Italy but from what I saw he was extremely talented and some games he ran in a way you only could if you had a football brain. 

He's someone who was made the focal point of a Mourinho team when he had barely finished being a teenager. 

I think he's got a lot to contend with. New country, new team, new language after only just adjusting to the same thing in January. He's got a lot to deal with off the field and he's also got to get used to his third completely different style of play, third position and third league since January. 

On top of this he's gone from a prodigal son, to a key player, to a player that just about gets into the side but will be ousted by a younger local lad as soon as injuries clear up. When you're used to most things going through you and you being a highlight reel creators dream, like Grealish, to a cog in a well defined system, there will be a drop in the quality you're capable of showing. 

I think he'll be the opposite of our Ross Barkley. I remember in January saying that I'd by Barkley for £20mil easily based on early season form and his linkup with the rest of the midfield. By end of the season he looked like an expensive waste of squad space. Hoping Zaniolo does the opposite. By the end of January I think people will be hoping we're looking to trigger a buy clause. 

[avfc1982am]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

Thats a bit profound, if you don't mind me saying.

Many fans with years of experience as spectators, know what they are looking at,  too......its not mutually exclusive.

Very true. However, as mentioned in a previous post, if there was or is constructive criticisms of him I think that's fair enough, and debatable, but look back through the thread and in many instances that isn't the case. 

Your correct that fans also have experience, but does that mean people should just be dismissive of a player after approx 10 games, and considering all the factors that may actually have an impact on performances? Like playing out of position, being in a new Country, new culture. Not only that but having the embarrassment of being pulled out your national team recently and the possibility of your career imminently going tits up. Also considering for good measure, that you've recently spent a good portion of your career getting over major injuries, before then getting run out of your previous club where you'd been very successful, because the manager decided to turn you into a villain with the fans.

Aston Villa football club, and I include the fans in that, should be doing everything possible to help this young lad become the player Emery, Monchi and the club think he could become for us. As with all our players. Not throwing more shit the lads way after such a short period of time. Like I said constructive criticism is fair enough, it's not like he's playing brilliantly so debate as to why is only fair and I'm sure everyone would agree with that. What I don't think is fair is being dismissive of all the above to just post, "He's crap" or some other nonsense. It's only right that the response should be equally as dismissive.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

On 06/11/2023 at 17:16, NurembergVillan said:

Moreno is quicker and gets up to support and even beyond the attacker a lot sooner than Digne, which gives the defence more to think about.

Zaniolo's passing can be quite cute and I think Moreno would benefit from that.

The first touch and being dispossessed thing, I can't make an argument. It's strange though, because from what I've seen of him elsewhere he looks really polished.

Less time on the ball in this league. He hasn't yet adjusted to it I don’t think. I've always thought Italian players coming here take longer to adjust for some odd reason. Hopefully we can start to see the best of him soon and make a fully informed decision if he warrants a permanent transfer or not.

[Risso]

It's an internet discussion board, not the Sporting Psychology unit at Bodymoor Heath. People are free to give their opinions as they see fit, and anybody chirping up with comments such as 'fickle' and 'scapegoat' is a bit of a witless dullard as far as I'm concerned.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Risso

[Nigel]

I don't know what it is but certain players have a real quality to the way they play from their first game, no matter how it comes out on the pitch; it's that Douglas Luiz or Jack Grealish trait that make the game look effortless.

I think zaniolo has this trait. You just know this bloke has a lot to offer.

However its just ridiculous to expect it from the outset, everyone needs time to settle. 

 

[UpTheVilla26]

I honestly think if he can grab a goal ASAP, then he will go mental and we will see the real Zaniolo.