Mic09 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 16 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: For me, alcohol is a million times worse than gambling for a multitude of reasons. As @MNVillan and @maqroll I'm speaking from personal experience too. Anyway on topic, is anyone else hoping that the delay with the badge, means the club have gone back to the drawing board? Or are simply working with Adidas to create a streamlined launch ( As well as much improved badge ) Probably they are currently worried about turning the witton lane toilets into hospitality areas and looking to bring in porta potties just outside of the stand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 35 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: For me, alcohol is a million times worse than gambling for a multitude of reasons. As @MNVillan and @maqroll I'm speaking from personal experience too. Anyway on topic, is anyone else hoping that the delay with the badge, means the club have gone back to the drawing board? Or are simply working with Adidas to create a streamlined launch ( As well as much improved badge ) As the son of an alcoholic who was also a gambler I do agree with you mate. As to your other point, if they have gone back to the drawing board there is a clear solution: Keep the round badge but spruce it up with a left facing gold lion if they must so it stands out more. We can't start again from scratch again! It is too confusing 1. The Lerner era badge is the official badge 2. The kits have a round badge 3. Numerous leaked evolutions of the Lerner badge rumoured as the next one 4. Back to the drawing board again?? It would be too much. We can't keep diluting the brand like this. When you Google Aston Villa crest you will get so many different ones. Edited March 14 by Captain_Townsend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 14 Moderator Share Posted March 14 1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Anyway on topic, is anyone else hoping that the delay with the badge, means the club have gone back to the drawing board? Or are simply working with Adidas to create a streamlined launch ( As well as much improved badge ) There's no way that they're going back to the drawing board at this stage, for the same reasons that we currently have a round badge on our shirts; it's simply too late to stop manufacture and those shirts will already be in production - the timescales on this mean that our shirt designers will be some way along in designing the 2025-26 shirt at this point, the 2024-25 will be in boxes somewhere ready to ship by now. If the FA were to come back and say a simple no to the new design (which would be extreme and very unlikely) then I think we'd have the new Heck badge on next season's shirts and be forced to undergo a procedure to put in place a new permanent badge for the following season - it'd be even more of a shitshow than this. We have an organisation in the FA that has said stuff like this must be decided collaboratively with supporters in line with their guidelines and an extremely single minded CEO who doesn't care much for the opinions of others - it's not a great combination, but it's one I feel the CEO will win on this occasion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 In 2022 I was so excited about the new badge. Couldn't give a damn any more after all this! I can't believe it is now 2024 and we are here! Anyway, I will say no more as I have done enough criticism of what had happened since last May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 14 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14 The silence is because it was too late to change the badge from the monstrosity they unveiled. So they're hoping everyone just calms down and forgets before it appears on the shirts Probably 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 14 Moderator Share Posted March 14 Just a note on the difference between an alcohol sponsor and a gambling sponsor and BK8. Someone mentioned Heineken earlier as a comparison, and in gambling terms I think it's really important to realise that BK8 aren't the gambling equivalent to that - and that whilst comparing the harm caused by alcohol and the harm caused by gambling in our societies is one thing - comparing those to BK8 is another. It is very heavily suggested by investigative journalists that BK8's primary market is the illegal Chinese gambling market - that gambling market is huge, and in operating in illegal markets, with a prohibited product, companies that are involved tend to mix in very muddy waters - BK8 is very heavily rumoured to have been owned and controlled by Alvin Chau, a triad linked underworld figure who is now serving eighteen years for running a criminal syndicate - there are reports that the syndicate was also involved in drug operations, prostitution and people smuggling. In terms of comparing BK8 to a brewery, the most sensible comparison I can make is to compare it to an alcohol supplier in a market where there is prohibition, yet everybody drinks and there are people who take advantage of that to generate huge sums of money. If I'm comparing BK8 to a drinks supplier, I'm not comparing them to Heineken, I'm comparing them to Al Capone. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 How difficult is it to get a reputable sponsor and clear branding? That is a fail for both for Villa this season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: We have an organisation in the FA that has said stuff like this must be decided collaboratively with supporters in line with their guidelines and an extremely single minded CEO who doesn't care much for the opinions of others - it's not a great combination, but it's one I feel the CEO will win on this occasion. That’s true but it doesn’t fair well for him long term as he will always have a negative view of him for a large section of the fans and he might do some good things in the future but unless they are outstanding then eventually he will leave because he wasn’t accepted by the fans. Yes, the owners might not care as much about our feelings about this kind of thing but I bet they do a bit and over time that seed may grow. Football is a fickle thing and if you start off on a bad note, it’s not often that you are able to overcome that just as if you start well, it’s harder to lose the positive tag. We’ve seen this with footballers, managers, directors and owners in the past. If I had been Heck, I would’ve done something very positive to start with and then do all this nonsense afterwards. Coming in and being a bat out of hell just means he’s never going to be accepted by fans and that maybe ok in the short term it will eventually be the thing that gets him unstuck… Edited March 14 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I'd just like to say I'd be happy with a beer sponsor - drinking beer's part of our culture. Unless it's Budweiser, that's piss. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted March 14 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14 If we had a beer sponsor it would be the first time since probably Muller that I personally might actually be in a position to buy something from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 3 minutes ago, HKP90 said: If we had a beer sponsor it would be the first time since probably Muller that I personally might actually be in a position to buy something from. We have to be careful what we wish for thought! Problem with beer sponsors is that it's mostly large international breweries. The piss beer that we will have to buy at the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Was the Samsung chatter just an unsubstantiated rumour? Would love it if we could get rid of BK8 and get a more reputable and profitable sponsor. As for the badge… who the hell knows what’s going on? I am just sick of it and the wait tbh… almost stopped caring… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 4 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: For me, alcohol is a million times worse than gambling for a multitude of reasons If we're talking about the general impact of alcoholism vs gambling addiction on society, I completely agree. There are more alcoholics than problem gamblers, and the collateral damage caused by alcoholism is far greater. But in terms of a shirt sponsor for a sports team, I think a sports gambling website is just much more irresponsible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 14 Moderator Share Posted March 14 Please could we return to the actual thread topic- the club crest/badge and identity, rather than beer (mmm, lovely beer), and gambling and sponsors - there are other threads for those. Ta Villans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: There's no way that they're going back to the drawing board at this stage, for the same reasons that we currently have a round badge on our shirts; it's simply too late to stop manufacture and those shirts will already be in production - the timescales on this mean that our shirt designers will be some way along in designing the 2025-26 shirt at this point, the 2024-25 will be in boxes somewhere ready to ship by now. If the FA were to come back and say a simple no to the new design (which would be extreme and very unlikely) then I think we'd have the new Heck badge on next season's shirts and be forced to undergo a procedure to put in place a new permanent badge for the following season - it'd be even more of a shitshow than this. We have an organisation in the FA that has said stuff like this must be decided collaboratively with supporters in line with their guidelines and an extremely single minded CEO who doesn't care much for the opinions of others - it's not a great combination, but it's one I feel the CEO will win on this occasion. So if next seasons shirts are already on a pallet somewhere which badge do they have on then and why hasn't a picture of them been leaked? Why haven't the club announced anything knowing that such a leak is incredibly likely given recent history? We only signed the deal with Adidas recently, and that isn't even formally announced so I'd be surprised if they'd manage to design and mass produce the kit already. More likely our kits will arrive later than normal I'd expect (and normal for us is late anyway) Edited March 14 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 12 minutes ago, MrBlack said: So if next seasons shirts are already on a pallet somewhere which badge do they have on then and why hasn't a picture of them been leaked? Why haven't the club announced anything knowing that such a leak is incredibly likely given recent history? We only signed the deal with Adidas recently, and that isn't even formally announced so I'd be surprised if they'd manage to design and mass produce the kit already. More likely our kits will arrive later than normal I'd expect (and normal for us is late anyway) As we have another US pre seaon tour lined up in July, I hope that both badge and new shirt will be ready by then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 14 Moderator Share Posted March 14 6 minutes ago, MrBlack said: So if next seasons shirts are already on a pallet somewhere which badge do they have on then and why hasn't a picture of them been leaked? Why haven't the club announced anything knowing that such a leak is incredibly likely given recent history? Is it incredibly likely? How long ago was pallet-gate now? Since then, any leaks have tended to be in the branding for the launches and only a few days ahead of he actual release of a shirt, and those have been rare. If we've signed with Adidas (and that's incredibly likely) they'll be working on designs for our 2025-26 shirts now, the production timelines for shirts mean our current ones will already be being made and quite probably there are finished shirts ready to be shipped for (hopefully) a July launch - presumably with whichever badge our senior management team have asked our manufacturers to put on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, The Fun Factory said: As we have another US pre seaon tour lined up in July, I hope that both badge and new shirt will be ready by then. Maybe if we hadn't changed manufacturer and badge. As per @NurembergVillan, these things delay the typical timeframe. Of course, Adidas being absolutely huge, very experienced, and probably a far more competent outfit than Fanatics may mean they can actually deliver on time. (I am aware Fanatics supply loads of sports clubs these days but I'm yet to be convinced they're actually any good at it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 hour ago, blandy said: Please could we return to the actual thread topic- the club crest/badge and identity, rather than beer (mmm, lovely beer), and gambling and sponsors - there are other threads for those. Ta Villans. Sure… but there is sod all to say about the badge (and that hasn’t already been said) atm… A bit of info and comms from the club would be welcome but… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNVillan Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 13 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Just a note on the difference between an alcohol sponsor and a gambling sponsor and BK8. Someone mentioned Heineken earlier as a comparison, and in gambling terms I think it's really important to realise that BK8 aren't the gambling equivalent to that - and that whilst comparing the harm caused by alcohol and the harm caused by gambling in our societies is one thing - comparing those to BK8 is another. It is very heavily suggested by investigative journalists that BK8's primary market is the illegal Chinese gambling market - that gambling market is huge, and in operating in illegal markets, with a prohibited product, companies that are involved tend to mix in very muddy waters - BK8 is very heavily rumoured to have been owned and controlled by Alvin Chau, a triad linked underworld figure who is now serving eighteen years for running a criminal syndicate - there are reports that the syndicate was also involved in drug operations, prostitution and people smuggling. In terms of comparing BK8 to a brewery, the most sensible comparison I can make is to compare it to an alcohol supplier in a market where there is prohibition, yet everybody drinks and there are people who take advantage of that to generate huge sums of money. If I'm comparing BK8 to a drinks supplier, I'm not comparing them to Heineken, I'm comparing them to Al Capone. Edit: removed after I saw Blandy’s post. My bad. Edited March 15 by MNVillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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