Popular Post Muller Yogurt Long Sleever Posted January 6 Popular Post Share Posted January 6 To expand on earlier point, if they just sorted the colours and re-arranged the elements in the new thing, I think it'd be....OK. For example 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Muller Yogurt Long Sleever Posted January 6 Popular Post Share Posted January 6 (edited) And if used with some nice toys as a wider brand identity, it could be alright...ish. (Don't have to agree they're nice, it's just a principle.) God I need some sleep Edited January 6 by Muller Yogurt Long Sleever 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 9 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: The design has been registered online as copyright for legal protections, it was found there, that can only have been done by the club or someone acting for the club in a legal capacity. Okay but done over a month ago and suddenly found online as an easily accessible, public item anyone can pull a copy of? Who was the first person to find the copyright and start shouting about it enough to get national attention? Why did it take so long to find? I'm a complete nerd when it comes to videogames and especially Pokémon and you wouldn't believe the amount of stories over the last 10 / 15 years about new Nintendo consoles, logos and new Pokémon games that all just end up as dead ends, some randomly have their trademarks and stuff renewed out of nowhere and then nothing again. So maybe I'm being completely stupid about this but it feels like a thing I've heard before where people have been furious and then nothing until a few years later someone is like "remember this? What was all that about" If Villa have paid for this badge and someone's created it, couldn't it just be copyrighted for legal reasons with no intention to use it? How many other images have we got under copyright and how many of them are relating to the badge and in current use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) Regarding crests in general. They have an aesthetic quality, (likeable shades, font, direction of lions, etc). Then we have technical quality, (readability, contrast, detail, spacing, info conveyed for example). I'm not going to argue about aesthetics, but from a technical point of view, the 'leaked' logo does not cut it for me. There is also a symbolic aspect to crests/badges. Why was the 1874 lion reversed in the next iteration? Why was the original in the opposite direction to the Scottish one? Aesthetics change with time, symbolic meanings perhaps not. That's why I really liked the AV crest inspired by the old floodlights ... a nod to history. Perhaps crests/badges should also be a nod to the future? eg is the lion chasing the future or looking back at past glory? What the crest should not be is some flavour of the moment. Edited January 6 by fruitvilla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLVillan Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, Muller Yogurt Long Sleever said: To expand on earlier point, if they just sorted the colours and re-arranged the elements in the new thing, I think it'd be....OK. For example Basics done well here. 1. Our colours being claret and blue. 2. The contrast being appropriate for viewing (ie. dark against light). 3. The name of the club. Quite honestly, if the club presented ANY one of these as the new badge I'd be perfectly OK with it. Would I change anything? Possibly move the star above the badge and make the 1874 slightly bigger, but those are just my personal preferences and wouldn't overtly change my opinion... My personal favorite is the top-centre version. I couldn't care less what way the Lion is facing, or if the star/1874 is included or not, or if it's a two colour border or one. I just want our badge to be claret and blue, with the club name in full and to look professional. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 4 hours ago, skarroki said: Okay but done over a month ago and suddenly found online as an easily accessible, public item anyone can pull a copy of? Who was the first person to find the copyright and start shouting about it enough to get national attention? Why did it take so long to find? It wasn't over a month ago, it was filed 2 weeks ago, plus it's been Christmas and the IPO doesn't upload applications the same working day that they're filled. I'm unaware of exactly when the badge popped up on the IPO but I'd be surprised if it was more than a day before someone noticed it. Additionally it's the same badge the club has shown the FAB. It's very unlikely to be a cunning ruse, This is the new badge. Edited January 6 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo's Socks Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Knowing absolutely nothing about trademarks/copyrights etc, I was wondering if when an image like the alleged new crest is submitted, does that mean that only that EXACT image is covered, leaving the door open for a very close knock-off to slip through the net, or does it cover anything similar to the design? Like if I was to start a football club, and use the leaked crest image, but changed the font or colours slightly, or turned the lion round, could I get away with that? My point is, could this be the basic premise that is trademarked, but still be subject to change after? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 4 hours ago, Muller Yogurt Long Sleever said: And if used with some nice toys as a wider brand identity, it could be alright...ish. (Don't have to agree they're nice, it's just a principle.) God I need some sleep Seeing these mockups makes the leaked badge even more infuriating. The level of amateurism is utterly shocking. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Teale's 'tache Posted January 6 Popular Post Share Posted January 6 I was going to wait for the official announcement, but it's taking too long and I want to give my thoughts on the 'leaked' crest and how I think we've arrived at it. My initial thought when seeing the crest was that this is now an evolution of the Lerner brand and not the complete rebrand we'd been expecting. A brand evolution essentially means changing only a few components, slightly, so that at a glance you don't notice any difference, this means you don't have to pull down every version of the old crest in one summer and can instead do it gradually over a period of time. In this case, they've 'improved' the shield shape and the lettering, but taken care to keep the colours, lion and star as they were. The old lion and star in particular have been used in quite a bit of branding since Heck came in and because they haven't changed all of that branding can stay as is. So for those asking 'Why do we still have yellow on blue?' or 'Why have we gone back to the old lion?' That's your answer. Essentially it's about money. Heck came in with the remit to make/save money, he saw what the rebrand project was going to cost and decided that an evolution was more financially viable than a complete rebrand, he may have loved the roundel design, he may have hated it, but the reason it was canned was financial by the looks and nothing to do with preference. Now, if you look at the design, knowing the designer couldn't change the lion or star, and couldn't change the colours, and also had to fulfil the demands of the questionnaire, then it begins to make a little more sense how this design has been produced. I have great sympathy for the designer, this was mission impossible. It's a cautionary tale of how bad design decisions can hang around like a bad smell, 16/17 years we've had the yellow on blue, and until we suck it up and pay for a full rebrand there it will remain, the drop shadow doesn't fix it, but it does improve it ever so slightly. I don't really mind if the lettering is top or bottom because it can look unbalanced either way, the white text on the light blue is rubbish though. I'm just very disappointed, in the club and how they've communicated the whole thing, and the fact we aren't getting the total rebrand we desperately need. As I and others in here have shown, we could have had a really nice brand, that would have made it a whole lot easier to sell ourselves to new fans, investors, partners .etc Instead, we just plod along with the same broken brand. Womp womp. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltesemike Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Given the close similarity to our existing badge, I’m guessing that this has something to do with cost cutting. Keep the same Lion and colour scheme and so less needs to be revamped around the stadium? It’s the only explanation to revert back to a rehash of the old badge. If so then it’s really small time. We’re well overdue a change and moving on from a badge that we associate with the pain of the Lerner era. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrchnry Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I've only given up booze 6 days ago and I've become the man who sets up a petition on the Internet. I'm sensible enough to wait until this new crest is announced before sharing it though. I wonder what my next slide through middle age will bring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) Many thanks for that Teale's Tache. It would be nice to exorcise the ghost of Lerner for once and for all. I thought the spending on this would be less than a signing for the reserve team. Disappointing. Again. Especially when we all saw how much better the round badge was. And Heck has truly treated us like utter idiots. Edited January 6 by Captain_Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: I was going to wait for the official announcement, but it's taking too long and I want to give my thoughts on the 'leaked' crest and how I think we've arrived at it. My initial thought when seeing the crest was that this is now an evolution of the Lerner brand and not the complete rebrand we'd been expecting. A brand evolution essentially means changing only a few components, slightly, so that at a glance you don't notice any difference, this means you don't have to pull down every version of the old crest in one summer and can instead do it gradually over a period of time. In this case, they've 'improved' the shield shape and the lettering, but taken care to keep the colours, lion and star as they were. The old lion and star in particular have been used in quite a bit of branding since Heck came in and because they haven't changed all of that branding can stay as is. So for those asking 'Why do we still have yellow on blue?' or 'Why have we gone back to the old lion?' That's your answer. Essentially it's about money. Heck came in with the remit to make/save money, he saw what the rebrand project was going to cost and decided that an evolution was more financially viable than a complete rebrand, he may have loved the roundel design, he may have hated it, but the reason it was canned was financial by the looks and nothing to do with preference. Now, if you look at the design, knowing the designer couldn't change the lion or star, and couldn't change the colours, and also had to fulfil the demands of the questionnaire, then it begins to make a little more sense how this design has been produced. I have great sympathy for the designer, this was mission impossible. It's a cautionary tale of how bad design decisions can hang around like a bad smell, 16/17 years we've had the yellow on blue, and until we suck it up and pay for a full rebrand there it will remain, the drop shadow doesn't fix it, but it does improve it ever so slightly. I don't really mind if the lettering is top or bottom because it can look unbalanced either way, the white text on the light blue is rubbish though. I'm just very disappointed, in the club and how they've communicated the whole thing, and the fact we aren't getting the total rebrand we desperately need. As I and others in here have shown, we could have had a really nice brand, that would have made it a whole lot easier to sell ourselves to new fans, investors, partners .etc Instead, we just plod along with the same broken brand. Womp womp. Nice. But wouldn't it have been cheaper to stick with the round badge they already paid for? Or is it used in so few places that it wouldn't have mattered? Edited January 6 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 5 hours ago, skarroki said: Okay but done over a month ago and suddenly found online as an easily accessible, public item anyone can pull a copy of? Who was the first person to find the copyright and start shouting about it enough to get national attention? Why did it take so long to find? I'm a complete nerd when it comes to videogames and especially Pokémon and you wouldn't believe the amount of stories over the last 10 / 15 years about new Nintendo consoles, logos and new Pokémon games that all just end up as dead ends, some randomly have their trademarks and stuff renewed out of nowhere and then nothing again. So maybe I'm being completely stupid about this but it feels like a thing I've heard before where people have been furious and then nothing until a few years later someone is like "remember this? What was all that about" If Villa have paid for this badge and someone's created it, couldn't it just be copyrighted for legal reasons with no intention to use it? How many other images have we got under copyright and how many of them are relating to the badge and in current use? This is the badge. It was confirmed by the club in the FAB meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, Pongo's Socks said: My point is, could this be the basic premise that is trademarked, but still be subject to change after? Also had this thought/hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 6 hours ago, Muller Yogurt Long Sleever said: To expand on earlier point, if they just sorted the colours and re-arranged the elements in the new thing, I think it'd be....OK. For example You can tweak the badge to make it much better in a couple of hours, the club have been working on it for months and can’t. Not sure what that’s tells us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 14 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: I was going to wait for the official announcement, but it's taking too long and I want to give my thoughts on the 'leaked' crest and how I think we've arrived at it. My initial thought when seeing the crest was that this is now an evolution of the Lerner brand and not the complete rebrand we'd been expecting. A brand evolution essentially means changing only a few components, slightly, so that at a glance you don't notice any difference, this means you don't have to pull down every version of the old crest in one summer and can instead do it gradually over a period of time. In this case, they've 'improved' the shield shape and the lettering, but taken care to keep the colours, lion and star as they were. The old lion and star in particular have been used in quite a bit of branding since Heck came in and because they haven't changed all of that branding can stay as is. So for those asking 'Why do we still have yellow on blue?' or 'Why have we gone back to the old lion?' That's your answer. Essentially it's about money. Heck came in with the remit to make/save money, he saw what the rebrand project was going to cost and decided that an evolution was more financially viable than a complete rebrand, he may have loved the roundel design, he may have hated it, but the reason it was canned was financial by the looks and nothing to do with preference. Now, if you look at the design, knowing the designer couldn't change the lion or star, and couldn't change the colours, and also had to fulfil the demands of the questionnaire, then it begins to make a little more sense how this design has been produced. I have great sympathy for the designer, this was mission impossible. It's a cautionary tale of how bad design decisions can hang around like a bad smell, 16/17 years we've had the yellow on blue, and until we suck it up and pay for a full rebrand there it will remain, the drop shadow doesn't fix it, but it does improve it ever so slightly. I don't really mind if the lettering is top or bottom because it can look unbalanced either way, the white text on the light blue is rubbish though. I'm just very disappointed, in the club and how they've communicated the whole thing, and the fact we aren't getting the total rebrand we desperately need. As I and others in here have shown, we could have had a really nice brand, that would have made it a whole lot easier to sell ourselves to new fans, investors, partners .etc Instead, we just plod along with the same broken brand. Womp womp. This makes zero sense. if cost was the primary factor then he would have stuck with the perfectly functional crest that was about to be launched. Also there is zero difference in cost between evolution of existing brand vs new brand. You still have to update *everything*. no, this was only about one thing and one thing only. President Business’ Ego and belief that he - with zero consultation with anyone - could do it better…..and we’ve all seen the quality of his output. Hopefully he’s done enough to get fired before he does more permanent damage elsewhere. That would be the only saving grace of this self inflicted ego trip of a disaster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: Now, if you look at the design, knowing the designer couldn't change the lion or star, and couldn't change the colours, and also had to fulfil the demands of the questionnaire, then it begins to make a little more sense how this design has been produced. I have great sympathy for the designer, this was mission impossible. Even with these constraints do we believe a professional design house really signed off on that? Maybe the cost cutting (agree on that point, BTW) extends to getting a trainee or sons/nephews of Heck to design it. It's actually more jarring than the original Lerner effort, which is some going. Edited January 6 by HolteExile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 6 VT Supporter Share Posted January 6 25 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: Essentially it's about money. Heck came in with the remit to make/save money, he saw what the rebrand project was going to cost and decided that an evolution was more financially viable than a complete rebrand, he may have loved the roundel design, he may have hated it, but the reason it was canned was financial by the looks and nothing to do with preference. I **** told you! (not you, I mean a general “you”) Now the club just need to be **** honest about this. Stop trying to gaslight us into thinking this is what we wanted. Just admit it’s about money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 5 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said: This makes zero sense. if cost was the primary factor then he would have stuck with the perfectly functional crest that was about to be launched. Also there is zero difference in cost between evolution of existing brand vs new brand. You still have to update *everything*. no, this was only about one thing and one thing only. President Business’ Ego and belief that he - with zero consultation with anyone - could do it better…..and we’ve all seen the quality of his output. Hopefully he’s done enough to get fired before he does more permanent damage elsewhere. That would be the only saving grace of this self inflicted ego trip of a disaster. It's cost, I read somewhere a total rebrand would cost in the region of £10m, an evolution where you don't have to change everything can be rolled out more to whatever budgetary constraints you have at the time. You can believe whatever you want though and get angry at Heck, I'm just not sure you're being angry for the right reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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