Muller Yogurt Long Sleever

I present the Classic and the Bat-eater

That would be me. Not that I'd necessarily do this from scratch for our badge, but just frustrating how easily fixable the supposed new badge is! I prefer a gold lion but wouldn't mind any claret-blue combo as long as it has contrast

Me too mate and no idea why I'm bothering to be honest! Agree the claret lion looks a bit like a cut-out, I prefer gold on claret. Just some full on clutching at straws

Consider it whatever Pantone or shade of blue you like or think is right - the point is to further demonstrate how ridiculous and frustrating the colour use is at present. We have 3 colours to consider (I have no idea why white has been added, and appreciate some people prefer just claret and blue). Whatever the reason is, or ever was to go yellow on blue, is a bad one. Whatever anyone’s opinion of the overall design of elements (I think it’s crap and unbalanced, would drop the star and 1874, but whatever), there are multiple colour combinations that at least give this thing contrast. So please Chris, one more step at least, you can do this… (then we can move on to composition, and maybe promote you from Work Experience to Intern Designer)

If the shield is locked in, Chris has completed Step 2. Please continue.

It's all true. The thinking was the star only appears as a shirt feature, not on the standard every day badge. Whether that's a possibility or not, doesn't really matter if the monstrosity is locked in - as I said it all feels pretty futile so just making the rules up! NURSE! My make-believe version goes by thinking that if there's not a natural position for the star, and 1874 for that matter, they can be dropped - they can come through wider branding and communications, and will still be seen plenty. If they were vital elements then design with them in mind in the first place - what we've been landed with is professional shoehorning.

I've left the crest subject alone for a few weeks but am still exasperated not only at the lack of consultation, but at the glaring design faults with the more-than-likely new thing. Everyone has an opinion on stars, 1874, crest or roundel, which lion, which way it faces and whatnot - and none of these opinions can really be considered right or wrong. But what is pretty much inarguable are the terrible colour choices, resulting clunky drop shadow and positioning of the lion scraping his head. What's also so annoying is that this basic design - which whilst not my choice of arrangement - could at least just work with a bit of refinement (in my opinion). Since it leaked, we've all seen enough Villa badges to have a different one every season until the end of time. So I know this is futile but I appear to have done it now, blame insomnia...

You're absolutely right, and I don't know the brief of course - I just mean the core components are well balanced. At this point I'd accept the star and whichever lion, if it sat comfortably. Even if we had the fundamentals of a well arranged crest and hold on to a glimmer of hope the colours get adapted at some point.. Plus if they were open to crest shapes, at least consider something more ownable, such as this.

Me too. The crazy thing is it's fundamentally the new one - it could have been made from the same brief, but this is made professionally. AAAAGGGGHHHH

This guy is absolutely spot on. I'd just written the following, which essentially aligns with him but in a more frustrated way - but he's gone into more depth and been more constructive, to be fair. Don't love the crest shape but he knows his stuff. From the excitement of having a brand spanking new/refreshed brand identity with all of its possibilities, to the fury of seeing what we’re apparently getting, to the despondency of it probably not being fixed. This is our primary identity, it should be a new classic made to last for generations of fans, and it’s fundamentally wrong. Not due to personal preferences, it’s just off from a design point of view. I'm now at a point of not caring which way the lion is facing, or even which lion it is. Or if it has 1874 or a star. It shouldn’t be a case of making do, but if you have to do your own version of the crest, Chris - which you didn’t appear to ask anyone about - at least respect the feedback of what seems like every single fan who is supposed to adore it, and fix the sh*tstorm you’ve created. I don’t care where things are at in production, we’re used to late shirts. So please, just at least sort the colours out so that that we have a contrasting combination, negating any question of a bloody drop shadow; and arrange the elements so that it balances - Aston Villa at the top, ideally. I’m fairly confident just looking at it that the new crest has not been made nor approved by someone who understands basic composition, which is as concerning as it is infuriating. Maybe we need an official Villa design consortium... Fix it, bin it, or start again properly and use a current badge for our special anniversary next season. Pretty please. This is important.

Spot on. Ridiculous to brief designers with 'these are the elements, arrange them nicely' (which they haven't); and I wholeheartedly agree we've missed a trick, in defining our whole identity in a more innovative and ownable way, whilst still celebrating heritage.

Thank you. It's not so much about the colours - they're subjective so one person's wrong is another's right - plus they will show up differently on different screens. It's more the thought that perhaps all is not lost if it's rolled out smartly..

Evening all. I had furious Friday, sad Saturday but trying to be optimistic, straw-clutching Sunday. Anger, denial, nowhere near acceptance but looking for a glimmer of hope in these difficult times for us. So kick your shoes off, pop up on the couch and see if you get anything out of it. This thread is called Future Club Crest and Brand Identity, but broadly deals with crests/badges and not so much the context or application. Although I fully stand by this new crest being badly flawed and 100% want it re-addressed if at all possible, but if it has been committed to and we’re stuck with it, it may not be all bad if we build good things out of it, around it and with it. Any brand identity is a sum of parts, often with a family of logo variations. Granted, the primary version (eg.our crest) is the most seen element and should be the hero - ours is dodgy, which is a real shame. But then there’s secondary versions (others have spoken about the Liverpool full club crest vs simple liver bird, for example). Plus colours, typography, graphics etc - simple, coherent elements that can be used flexibly. So, with the basic ‘design’ on the table, I give you some examples of a wider identity that could spill out of where we’re at, with some secondary versions of the crest that could fit different purposes and formats. It appears the club font created by Dragon Rouge is staying, which is decent I think, and there’s a lion-inspired pattern in there. The optimistic part of me is saying that at some stage, common sense and taste will prevail and the colours sorted, the drop shadow dropped. We still have the basic design registered, which in mono colour, isn’t as bad, so could be re-coloured. Things that are changed regularly could then be updated relatively easily, eg. anything digital, social media, TV, kits, merchandise, ticket designs. Not so much any big snazzy 3D signage. No faith whatsoever it’ll happen given the standard of the crest design, but hey ho. Some would call it turd polishing, or clutching at straws - much like a lion fumbles for a star - but that’s today’s little dose of semi-positive thinking. That’s all. Whisky, snacks and medication will be served in the lobby. (I don’t mean have ALL of these variations, or pick your favourites, it’s just to show the principle.)

From 'hate' to 'like' with a simple re-arrangement and the new, better-defined lion. This is how to make it work, and the fact that others have suggested and shown essentially the same re-arrangement says a lot. It is now balanced and looks professional. (Saying that, the star still feels odd where it is, and since someone on here mentioned Scooby-Doo chasing a star I always get that sound effect in my head. Stick it above the crest or drop it.) Although it's not where I'd have personally gone, given where we are, I'd be happy with this. There's always going to be a bad taste left in the mouth because of what's gone down with the process - that ship has sailed - but it's more likely to die down over time with something that feels balanced. This could last for years IMHO, whereas if the version on the table goes ahead as is, it'll continue to broadly get hammered and force another run at it. There you go Mr.Heck, it's been sorted, bit of common sense compromise?

Absolutely not the case my friend - there's always an instinctive emotional reaction but it's a considered opinion. I'd probably take the new lion which has more definition, but to me the 'new' badge just fundamentally doesn't balance and the drop shadow does not save things. I think it's fixable but not having it as it is! Lerner elements sit more comfortably to my eyes (not that old Randy made it.) But we don't have to agree, it would be a weird world if we all did!

Working in design and as a Villa fan, the brand identity means a huge amount and it would be a privilege to work on it. That’s why a lot of us can’t (and rightly won’t) let it lie. So a rant, albeit hopefully a constructive one. Looking back on the last two goes at it: The previous 2015/2016 version - by a top tier design agency with football club creds, almost certainly working with limitations of an evolution brief, with fan input. Not sure why the colours weren’t sorted, and the ‘Lerner’ crest certainly wasn’t universally liked; but the full lion was beautifully crafted (not so good in 2D), there was a bespoke font and iconography with claw marks and as a coherent body of work, it mostly worked. Elegant, heritage-based, but modern. Last year’s version - by a top tier design agency with football club creds, I assume working with a more open-minded brief but with fan feedback about elements, which would seem to have limited their thinking and scope somewhat. A well-drawn 2D lion, nicely crafted typeface, presented in two shape options. Fan vote was round badge - and overall it’s well-executed and works. Classic but modern. (Despite me thinking a circle isn’t right for us, but that’s just opinion.) Both would’ve come at considerable cost (although probably half of Lucas Digne’s weekly wage. Player budget vs marking budget are in different galaxies though.) But now we’re apparently being presented with something that isn’t fit for purpose nor befitting the prestige it deserves. People joke about it being made in Microsoft Paint but the crest we’re seeing, if real, is fundamentally unprofessional - cobbled together with elements from the last two efforts within a new crest shape. Arranged awkwardly and trying to solve the colour issue with a chunky drop shadow. If it’s a cost cutting exercise, there’s a good chance it was done in-house or by a cheaper-option contact, as has been suggested. (That’s not a slur on any design resource at the club, I don’t know them, their level, nor their brief; nor indeed if this is what’s happened. Nor do I know Mr.Heck, who has presumably directed and approved the alleged result. Just speculating due to the below-par execution.) All I can say is if what we’re seeing is true, it’s frustratingly not good enough. Despite my preference to not have a round badge, I’d take it all day long over what we’re apparently getting. It’ll be very interesting to see if there’s a wider set of assets released alongside the alleged new crest, such as the font and any other bits from this year’s agency effort. It may slightly rescue things. I’ve always thought the best way to do these very challenging projects is to allow a good agency to run the process, of gleaning a decent amount of fan feedback and insight to develop a solution. But from being involved in this forum, I think there’s a clear case for designer fans with the knowledge, insight and talent to collaborate on such things (as has been suggested). There are clearly people on here (doing some lovely things purely as a passion project. How cost-friendly is that?! Bound to be the same at other clubs. - AAANNNND ANOTHER THING - apart from the overall quality of design, something that really grinds my gears is that with a brand refresh coming at the same time as the 150 year anniversary, it was an opportunity to incorporate it in a new visual identity, then proudly move forward with our shiny new look. Yes the 150 is a temporary one-off, but the fact that it seemingly has no correlation whatsoever with the badge stylistically feels wrong (aside from it also being fairly illegible). - I had high hopes for Mr.Heck and have to admit I was glad things were going back to the drawing board - but again, that’s personal opinion about the brand, and a separate conversation. There was a coincidental crossover of people at the helm (Purslow-Heck), and I wanted to trust that we had someone who’d steer it in a more innovative, ownable direction whilst respecting fans and history, as much as it wasn’t a great look to change course. On the evidence so far, this is not the case. I hate being negative and don’t want to sound preachy, but it’s born out of passion and therefore frustrating. It’s mostly opinions, but they come from a decent amount of knowledge and experience. Our identity is for us to own and love, and how we present ourselves to the world. Any re-brand, re-fresh, logo change or whatever, at least needs a sound reason as well as being well executed. Not everyone will love the outcome, but at least have those. Where we allegedly are would seem to cancel any reason because it now looks like change for change’s sake, as well as being poorly made. So despite the messy process it has been, I’d rather go again and achieve something befitting of our great club. Right now it’s either have something crap which was the result of a less than ideal process, and will be largely disliked moving forward (on the evidence I’ve seen) and probably result in having to do it again sooner rather than later; vs. have something that the majority think looks great and lasts for decades, with the crap process becoming a historical footnote. (Or simply leave it at what you invested in last year.) Full judgement reserved until when things are officially released. This may well have been another pointless outburst. But on the off-chance the club are reading through this stuff - please let us help you fix it. The reactions are because this really matters. Hey we played a game of football today didn’t we?

I'd take the last 'Lerner' badge over the alleged new, cobbled together, imbalanced thing any day. And can confidently say I'm regarded as a good designer.

And if used with some nice toys as a wider brand identity, it could be alright...ish. (Don't have to agree they're nice, it's just a principle.) God I need some sleep

To expand on earlier point, if they just sorted the colours and re-arranged the elements in the new thing, I think it'd be....OK. For example

Flipping the lion is actually one thing I have no issue with (the way it originally faced, and looking conventionally forward).

And just for sh*ts and giggles, some heritage-inspired modern-ish kits with fantasy, local shirt sponsors

Then on some social

What the heck (pun not intended but taking it) - built out a recent post a bit, to try build a brand world that does both heritage and modern.To be fair, IF the new/leaked/fake thing was sorted in terms of colour and composition, it could work, with a decent, coherent set of toys to use with it. But I haven't made that because I'm pretending it doesn't exist as things stand. So here's a thing, and the thing on some merch: