Race for Champions League - 2023/2024

[villan95]

19 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

I agree and I see where you’re coming from. However (the boxing’s on) pound for pound he’s every bit as equal (imo) of Pep and The ‘perennial plucky underdog’ Klopp. 

Yeah Pep in particular basically just achieves what he should for what he has at his disposal.

[tinker]

FuXk me this race is wide open.

Edited August 26, 2023 by tinker

[ender4]

51 minutes ago, tinker said:

FuXk me this race is wide open.

Yes and no.  

Spurs look much stronger.  

Arsenal will still finish top 4 even if they can’t push Man City for the title.

Man Utd are stronger than last season and refs will always favour them. Again, top 4 should be easy for them even if they can’t challenge top 2.

We still have to finish above Newcastle, Spurs, Chelsea & Brighton to finish in a CL spot.

 

 

[Adam2003]

Don’t see this for us this season. Steady performance in the league (top half) and win the Europa Conference for Europa League qualification please. FA Cup would be nice also if preferred.

[Hank Scorpio]

Spurs being much better than expected means realistically Europa League will be the realistic target.

[useless]

How bad did people think Spurs were going to be that they're much better than expected, they've only played Brentford, Bournemouth, and Man Utd, they always had a good chance of getting a decent haul of points from those games, I would expect us to be looking to do simiarly well from the same games; they were never suddenly going to suddenly to turn into a lower table side.

[VillaChris]

Worth remembering that Spurs won 5 of their first 7 games last season.

They had a big points advantage over us in November 2022. It's a long old season.

No idea how anyone can have watched Man. United first 3 games and think they're on last season's level, they are wide open when they don't have the ball.

Saying all that talk is redundant unless we win enough games like Burnley away as that's the sort of test you need to get three points from if you want to be really serious about challenging for 4th or 5th.

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, useless said:

How bad did people think Spurs were going to be that they're much better than expected, they've only played Brentford, Bournemouth, and Man Utd, they always had a good chance of getting a decent haul of points from those games, I would expect us to be looking to do simiarly well from the same games; they were never suddenly going to suddenly to turn into a lower table side.

Think people just based it on Maddison getting relegated with Leicester and deciding he was complete rubbish. When you think about it that was actually a really smart signing to fill the Kane void as he's got the personality to always get on the ball and usually hit double figures for goals and sometimes assists over a season.

Better than just sticking Bryan Gil there anyway.

Having Richarlison as CF will hurt them in tighter games though when you need to be clinical from minimal chances and I'm not convinced Son is as good as he used to be either so think they'll go a few games without a win soon enough.

[juteface]

West Ham look to have the counter figured out and will cause all sorts of problems if we don't get the high line sorted. I worry about Pau having to defend against them, especially Antonio.

[VillaChris]

21 minutes ago, juteface said:

West Ham look to have the counter figured out and will cause all sorts of problems if we don't get the high line sorted. I worry about Pau having to defend against them, especially Antonio.

West Ham has always been a difficult match up for us since coming up so in reality getting even one win from them will feel like overachieving. They have similar profile to Leicester in the 1990s who we could never beat either.

Would worry more about defending set pieces against them without Mings.

[abdulaziz1]

4 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Think people just based it on Maddison getting relegated with Leicester and deciding he was complete rubbish. When you think about it that was actually a really smart signing to fill the Kane void as he's got the personality to always get on the ball and usually hit double figures for goals and sometimes assists over a season.

Better than just sticking Bryan Gil there anyway.

Having Richarlison as CF will hurt them in tighter games though when you need to be clinical from minimal chances and I'm not convinced Son is as good as he used to be either so think they'll go a few games without a win soon enough.

Maddison talent never in doubt, it’s him being fit which made people fear this signing. Same goes with Ward Prowse, it’s just the long term gain is what prevent us from getting him. You’d spend big amount for a squad player (I don’t think I would start him above Luiz). Some signing could even be better than some if we’re looking short term, but longer term it’s a different story. Last winter we didn’t panic yet we got to Europe. This season our main goal should be winning the UECL, that give us a wild card for Europe, while we try and compete in 3 competitions as well. 
I’d be more than happy to be around top teams, while qualifying in Europe (and getting easiest possible draws), while going to the final of the League Cup and qualify first round of FA Cup before January. That would give us more belief in our chances, we’d look again to improve what needs to be improved during January. Best scenario is to win League Cup in March, while being around in the league and all other competitions. Winning that would confirm another UECL at the very least. 
I’m not saying not to compete, I would even like to keep winning and be title candidate, but we have to take the backup plans seriously. 
I can’t believe how people easily overestimate or underestimate teams, people say Arsenal are definitely top 4 team, while I agree they’re the second best, but if they go in a bad form and Man City were away from them it could affect them mentally. 
Chelsea have a quality manager but it could easily go either way. Liverpool are a dangerous team, so far they don’t have a proper DM which could affect them. Newcastle are the best tactical and focused team, toughest to beat but how long will it continue? I still think the 5-1 are a blessing in our side regarding the timing, especially if we won tomorrow (our most important this season so far, we’ve been decreasing in our away form since last season). I think a draw between Liverpool and Newcastle would be the best result, not only points, but it won’t make any of them act according to a bad result. 
Man City is Man City, then comes Spurs who people underestimate them, all forgot they didn’t have a manager last season. They had some quality players, some got back as well such as Lo Celso. West Ham are being tough to beat, Brighton are beginning very good, they would lose the odd games with many goals (such as Everton last season) we have to be careful. Brentford looking a top 10 team again. Man Utd main issue so is trying to accommodate Mount and Bruno, actually Ten Hag want to implement his style by playing 2 10’s. Once it clicks on, or he change his idea and play an 8 instead, their form will change. So we can’t conclude that they’re bad because for example we tried the high line away at Newcastle and got punished. They’re on the process of building their style.

[abdulaziz1]

3 hours ago, VillaChris said:

West Ham has always been a difficult match up for us since coming up so in reality getting even one win from them will feel like overachieving. They have similar profile to Leicester in the 1990s who we could never beat either.

Would worry more about defending set pieces against them without Mings.

We only failed to beat West Ham and Man City since we got up from what I can remember.

[TheAuthority]

11 hours ago, villan95 said:

I did one of those tier list things and had it something like this

The PL football world is so funny.

I'm not saying he's bad, but, De Zerbi hasn't managed in the PL for a full season yet, but accord to that graphic he's already been hailed as just below Pep and as good as Unai who has won the Europa 5 times. 

His managerial career before Brighton wasn't all that. With Palermo, seven consecutive defeats and no points at home in three months saw him sacked. Next, relegated with Benevento.
Small Serie A club Sasuolo he got into mid table twice then left. He won the Ukrainian cup with Shakhtar (his only success as a manager) and then rocked up at Brighton and tweaked what Potter had built. 

Yes it's been good for the last 11 months, but Brighton is a very well run club and have been building in a sustained way for a long time.

Going back to that graphic, to compare him to Unai, at this point in his career, is really quite naive IMO.

Anyone remember Phil Brown? (Again, I am not saying DZ is a terrible coach, just commenting on how he's been hailed as a genius after less than one season.) It's perfectly feasible that in 18 months time his name could be mentioned as much as David Wagner.

[VillaChris]

7 hours ago, abdulaziz1 said:

We only failed to beat West Ham and Man City since we got up from what I can remember.

If we can complete nullify Newcastle at VP with all their quality surely we can do the same to West Ham? Think Isak only had about 7 touches all day in April.

[villan95]

9 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

The PL football world is so funny.

I'm not saying he's bad, but, De Zerbi hasn't managed in the PL for a full season yet, but accord to that graphic he's already been hailed as just below Pep and as good as Unai who has won the Europa 5 times. 

His managerial career before Brighton wasn't all that. With Palermo, seven consecutive defeats and no points at home in three months saw him sacked. Next, relegated with Benevento.
Small Serie A club Sasuolo he got into mid table twice then left. He won the Ukrainian cup with Shakhtar (his only success as a manager) and then rocked up at Brighton and tweaked what Potter had built. 

Yes it's been good for the last 11 months, but Brighton is a very well run club and have been building in a sustained way for a long time.

Going back to that graphic, to compare him to Unai, at this point in his career, is really quite naive IMO.

Anyone remember Phil Brown? (Again, I am not saying DZ is a terrible coach, just commenting on how he's been hailed as a genius after less than one season.) It's perfectly feasible that in 18 months time his name could be mentioned as much as David Wagner.

You make some good points and having thought a bit more I'd move de Zerbi down a level. I do think he's destined for big things though. His Brighton team are one of the best to watch and a 50% win rate there is very impressive. He did a very good job at Sassuolo too by all accounts and has won plaudits for his style of football wherever he's been so I don't think what we're seeing at Brighton is a flash in the pan. It will be interesting to see where he ends up next as that will probably be his big opportunity.

[GeordieVillan]

Before the Newcastle game I would have taken 6 points from the first 3 games with a positive goal difference. If you offered it to me. Consider the injuries and disturbance to the settled team as well. Something to build on. 

[villan95]

Averaging 2 points per game now. On course for 76 which would get a CL place

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Completely turned our goal difference around in two games.

[VillaChris]

There are loads of wins for us home and away this season.

Of course they'll be tough games when we're fully in europa league but look at today. Four key injuries yet Bailey is unused sub, Zaniolo on for his debut and Tielemans also on five minutes to go.

Other than a proven back up CF I'd say bench is as strong as what Liverpool and Newcastle have named today and certainly stronger than what Chelsea are currently putting out given it's mostly unproven kids so that will stand us in good stead as the season goes on and we at least get Moreno and Ramsey back at some point in next 4-6 weeks.

[AshVilla]

I fear nobody with Unai at the helm.