Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Wolves

[HKP90]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Frustration has a habit of nullifying perspective....but lets be clear here.....The distance between a good performance and a bad performance is what irks us, and it was a gaping void.......The performances to date Under Unai, is not the issue.....its a match reaction, lets not lose sight of that.

Lack of consistency, is what happens when you are a mid table team and we are........We can't win every game, we know that, and losing/drawing is inevitable.....but the way we played first half ( lucky to be still in the game) was woeful...its the measure in the drop that has folk bemused.

It can be as equally frustrating to fans who want to see us rid ourselves of inconsistency, (like other teams in the league have done well, in a similar position to us) and then we come up with that.

I think it can compound the frustration to some fans, when others bat it off, as a bad day at the office, with an air of lets just move on and denigrating that frustration, in the process.

Most of us, want to see our team, fighting for everything we get, I didn't see that in large periods of the game and felt too many players, were just second best to their opponent.....The amount of times, we was just relieved of the ball, was disappointing.....and yet when they had the ball a passive tackle or half hearted semi press.

Many folk, will have their opinions of why that was, and they are entitled to them.......just like those that think its was all ok, is entiled to theirs.

No one thinks we played well first half. The ones that didn't boo just kept their frustration to themselves.  

[I Make Pies]

There are no easy games in the Premier League any more. Everyone is well organised and can play. The best teams have more quality in the final third and greater levels of consistency and confidence but that's about it. Barring a couple of exceptions, we stopped having bad teams in the league about five or six years ago when the new tv deal came in. In the old days a game at home against the team second bottom was expected to be an easy win, and the players got hammered if it was anything but (I remember us being 2-0 down vs Coventry in 2001?2002? and the whole crowd sung "what a load of rubbish" as the players went off at half time). It's a different league now but expectations remain the same.

[HKP90]

5 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Well 40,000 fans disagree with you and so do most clubs fans across all the leagues for decades.  We don’t agree on this point but you need to get used to it because it’s common in football and I can’t see it changing.  It’s like some people have never regularly been games.

Just because it's common, it doesn't make it right. No way would we have booed this back in the 90's/00's. In fact during all the matches I went to during that time (hundreds) I don't remember hardly ever hearing boos, except when things got really ugly toward the end of a manager's reign.  

I was there last night, and I don't think it was 40,000 people. My face was cringing so hard during it though, it resembled a fist. 

[onmeedson]

Our fitness levels are nowhere near for the premiership yet and to play  two against three in midfield was  another hurdle we put in our way. Why do we bother to cross a ball all game when we never win the heading duel's, meat and drink for the opposition and begger's belief why we have a set piece coach. We have to learn faster and be smarter as our tactics going forward just doe's not suit our attack.

[TRO]

34 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I thought we were fortunate not to be more down at half time but that’s Wolves issues, I think based on the second half we were unlucky not to have won the game by the end of it.  Overall a draw was a fair result in the end based on the balance of play imo.  

Certainly Wolves should’ve been out of sight first half but didn’t capitalise on it which opened the door for us with our better second half performance and opportunities imo.

I agree Nick.

I was probably smarting,so badly,  from our play in the first half to be as objective as I should about the second.

I think what has miffed me the most......is seeing this coming, before the game.

I was hoping they would defy my thoughts, make me out to be a grumpy old git.....I might as well have Choreographed it, as it was my inner thoughts to a Tee.

I described to my wife, what I thought would happen, before we sat down to watch it, ( she is a season ticket holder too, off with the Lurgy)

She said to me, how did you know, we would play like that...I said Intuition, watching this team/game, for so long...and know what I see, when we play better than this.

We have improved nIck, no doubt..... but He won't turn this around permanently without surgery.....and that surgery has to mean tangibly better players, not necessarily more talented, just better.

some of these players are up an down like a whores draws.

 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

Just because it's common, it doesn't make it right. No way would we have booed this back in the 90's/00's. In fact during all the matches I went to during that time (hundreds) I don't remember hardly ever hearing boos, except when things got really ugly toward the end of a manager's reign.  

I was there last night, and I don't think it was 40,000 people. My face was cringing so hard during it though, it resembled a fist. 

Well I’ve been going since the 80’s and I don’t see the difference to be honest.  I just find the grounds quieter and more family focused than back in my early days. When I used to travel to every away game I saw the same thing at opposition grounds by their fans when things weren’t going right.  I do far less away games these days because of family commitments so maybe those grounds suddenly have stopped things like booing or that but for decades including the 90’s there was booing….maybe you’re remembering a rosy past.

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

No one thinks we played well first half. The ones that didn't boo just kept their frustration to themselves.  

Just like the ones that stay seated,and comply,  when others want to stand up, thus blocking their view......yeah, I get that.

unfortunately, the benefits we get from a crowd of people, enjoying themselves and us in the process, can have a downside, when things get ugly.

I don't condone it....but on last nights performance ( particulalry the first half) I can understand it.

 

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Well I’ve been going since the 80’s and I don’t see the difference to be honest.  I just find the grounds quieter and more family focused than back in my early days. When I used to travel to every away game I saw the same thing at opposition grounds by their fans when things weren’t going right.  I do far less away games these days because of family commitments so maybe those grounds suddenly have stopped things like booing or that but for decades including the 90’s there was booing….maybe you’re remembering a rosy past.

Maybe. 

I know it won't change. Still don't f**king like it. 

[TRO]

As hard as I try....I just can't sweep, some of that play, under the carpet, like some clearly can.

I wish, I could.

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree Nick.

I was probably smarting,so badly,  from our play in the first half to be as objective as I should about the second.

I think what has miffed me the most......is seeing this coming, before the game.

I was hoping they would defy my thoughts, make me out to be a grumpy old git.....I might as well have Choreographed it, as it was my inner thoughts to a Tee.

I described to my wife, what I thought would happen, before we sat down to watch it, ( she is a season ticket holder too, off with the Lurgy)

She said to me, how did you know, we would play like that...I said Intuition, watching this team/game, for so long...and know what I see, when we play better than this.

We have improved nIck, no doubt..... but He won't turn this around permanently without surgery.....and that surgery has to mean tangibly better players, not necessarily more talented, just better.

some of these players are up an down like a whores draws.

 

I agree! I said after one of the recent wins, we still have many bumps in the road over the second half of the hence why I think the talk of top 7 is fantasy.  If we get top 10 this season then I think it’s a great achievement considering where Gerrard left us both in terms of league position, coaching and confidence.  Emery has so much work to do that we are going to have good moments and bad moments.

[nick76]

Just now, TRO said:

As hard as I try....I just can't sweep, some of that play, under the carpet, like some clearly can.

I wish, I could.

I can sweep it under the carpet because I believe, under Emery, it will get less and less or happen less under Emery over the next 18 months.  It’s not going to change like some fans think in a few games, or even a few months but I believe it will start happening less through coaching and acquiring new players but it will take time.  I sweep it under the carpet otherwise I will twist myself into knots when I know Emery is working on fixing it so it’s in good hands.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, onmeedson said:

Our fitness levels are nowhere near for the premiership yet and to play  two against three in midfield was  another hurdle we put in our way. Why do we bother to cross a ball all game when we never win the heading duel's, meat and drink for the opposition and begger's belief why we have a set piece coach. We have to learn faster and be smarter as our tactics going forward just doe's not suit our attack.

what was Einsteins famous quote?

I can't understand why we do it either.

We have needed some aerial power as options, for yonks now.

when you look back how long it took to get a CDM and further back in time, we had those full back issues.....it does make you wonder, who was switched on.

I am hoping beyond hope, this guy sorts it out.....if not.....its clearly above him.

[jim]

I don’t think the booing was embarrassing.

What is embarrassing is those people sat in their armchairs criticizing the fans who paid too dollar to attend the game on a winter weekday evening, straight after Christmas. They expected a side to show far more desire and effort in a local derby 

[TRO]

58 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Nope! Unai would’ve been just as peeved and you could see that from his face at the end of the first half before the booing and walking off, he was peeved and shocked.  No way he took that as a slight on him.

Well, that’s just football….I’ve been to most grounds over many decades, just normal from fans 

Fans have different personalities, like any other sect of people......and disagree with each other accordingly.

This country as a whole, disagree on most subjects....one reason why its so hard to Govern, but I digress.

I agree Nick, no way was it aimed at Unai.....He was as pissed off as us....but when you have limited options to change it, it must be hard....he did all he could imo.

 

[mottaloo]

36 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

 

I was there last night, and I don't think it was 40,000 people. My face was cringing so hard during it though, it resembled a fist. 

Steve....is that you ??

 

[MarkLillis]

I thought Wolves got their tactics spot on.The first Half performance from them would of made it difficult for even the best sides to play against.

Their set up stopped us passing through and also restricted us out wide and their players to a man were “at it”

However second half we reacted and reshuffled with Coutinho coming on and I think they slowed down a bit.

Chance creation was about equal 

All in all a very fair result for an even game.

Do players even notice if it’s a “Derby” ie V Wolves or Leicester?

I mean of course they would up it v Blues but Wolves?

I just thought Wolves played well and stopped us playing tbh.

[tinker]

56 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

I think what has miffed me the most......is seeing this coming, before the game.

I was hoping they would defy my thoughts, make me out to be a grumpy old git.....I might as well have Choreographed it, as it was my inner thoughts to a Tee.

I described to my wife, what I thought would happen, before we sat down to watch it, ( she is a season ticket holder too, off with the Lurgy)

She said to me, how did you know, we would play like that...I said Intuition, watching this team/game, for so long...and know what I see, when we play better than this.

 

I see your point on seeing it coming, it was never going to be easy their desperate for points and have a decent squad and a fresh manager. I didn't predict the score because I didn't want to be negative.

What I didn't predict was the the way we came back into the game, how often have we came back from losing at half time at home? 

Did you predict the second half come back? 

[AVTuco]

Just watched the game again. The second half was really really entertaining. Coming back from behind and forcing an equalizer, never giving up. Wonderful.

[OutByEaster?]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

Its going to be hard to win games....when you play like that.

The general play was below par....and when you do that, the initiative is yielded, and the opposition pick it up.

Thats what has happened, in the last 2 home games.

We are still not a team, that relish the responsibility of claiming the initiatitve, and taking the game to the oppostion.

The ball control, needs to improve, as does the decision making and the speed we move the ball, all those are interelated.

When teams get in our faces, it shows us for what we are, and our inconsistencies exposed.

This is not a 5 minute job.....and I don't think coaching alone, will suffice......its broader than that.

but, I think we have the right man, to do it......just hope he gets the financial support, as promised.

I can't agree with parts of this @TRO - I thought the two performances, against Liverpool and Wolves were almost polar opposites - against Liverpool we took responsibility, claimed the initiative and took the game to them - we moved the ball really well and we created a load of chances. That leaves us a bit open at the back with the high line and if you don't take those chances, you end up losing the game - as happened. Our overall play though was excellent.

Last night was different, and particularly in that first half, where I agree, we should be concerned. It was the first time really under Emery where we've played a team who chose not to try to impose their style or tactical approach on us, who instead focused on stopping us doing what we do - and I think you have to give them a lot of credit for the plan they had to do that, they were really good at outnumbering us in key areas and preventing us getting out.

We now have a plan A and we've clearly worked very hard on it, we build from the back through Luiz and Kamara and can use the full backs to help us make our way out - Wolves put a lot of men into stopping that and we couldn't find an alternative. 

That's going to happen, teams are going to start thinking about stopping us first rather than just beating us and we need to have both the extra quality that will help us find ways out or a series of different plans that we can use when Plan A isn't working.

In terms of individuals (and here we're on to your favourite subject; character) there's a responsibility on good players to find their own ways to do things if Plan A isn't working - the likes of Ashely Young, Mings, Digne, Ings, Coutinho and our more experienced players ought to be able to see that things aren't working, go back though what they know and come up with things that can work - good players are able to find ways themselves to get things done, not just follow schemes. There's an argument to say that's what happened in the end as Mings and Ings figured quite late on that balls over the top could beat a Wolves back line lacking pace, but in the first half there's a real concern that following the failure of Plan A they looked lost, frustrated and confused - no one stepped up and said "this isn't working, right lads, follow me". They looked a little like rabbits in the headlights and no amount of rushing around or clapping their hands at each other could overcome the idea that they couldn't see a way to change the game.

So, yes, I'd agree that the first half raises some concerns, concerns that can be overcome on the training ground and in the market, or maybe just with the time to become completely au fait with instructions and take on the information for Plan B and Plan C - it might become a valuable lesson for the future. I can't agree that it's down to us being a team that don't want to take responsibility for taking the game to the opposition or that the Liverpool game is anything other than evidence that that's exactly what we do want to do and are trying.

Lopetegui got the drop on us and we didn't react well, Liverpool got into a shootout with us and we didn't take our chances. Different problems I think.

[Davkaus]

2 hours ago, jim said:

I don’t think the booing was embarrassing.

What is embarrassing is those people sat in their armchairs criticizing the fans who paid too dollar to attend the game on a winter weekday evening, straight after Christmas. They expected a side to show far more desire and effort in a local derby 

You don't become immune to criticism because you've paid for a ticket.

They're entitled to boo. Other fans have every right to criticise said booing.

The players will never say it because we've seen what happens when anyone criticises the saintly fans, but Ings' celebration spoke volumes

Edited January 5, 2023 by Davkaus