Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Wolves

[osmark86]

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Well we just don’t agree.  If the players effort is below par, at every ground I’ve been to over the decades fans let the players know whether they are on a good run or not.  

Absolutely nothing to do with entitlement, nothing to with the Spurs game or anything else you want to list.  Us fans, of any club, at any ground and I’ve been to most, if the players are giving below par effort (not performance) then most times they get booed. The minimum fans expect (not entitled) is effort from their players.

Never once have I heard fans of AIK here in Sweden boo their own team. I guess maybe it's a difference in fan culture, but if you have nothing good to say I think it's best to be quiet and cheer as a form of motivator. Guess I just vehemently believe that the carrot beats the whip.

Edited January 5, 2023 by osmark86

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

It was just an example, but the booing could absolutely be interpreted as "Unai is shit"

Nope! Unai would’ve been just as peeved and you could see that from his face at the end of the first half before the booing and walking off, he was peeved and shocked.  No way he took that as a slight on him.

3 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

I just really dislike it and think it shows poor character from the fans.

Well, that’s just football….I’ve been to most grounds over many decades, just normal from fans 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, osmark86 said:

Never once have I heard fans of AIK here in Sweden boo their own team. I guess maybe it's a difference in fan culture, but if you have nothing good to say I think it's best to be quiet and cheer as a form of motivator. Guess I just vehemently believe that the carrot beats the whip.

Probably is different fan culture then, although I’ve been abroad into mainland Europe for foreign games and witnessed it in different forms.

I believe there are times for a carrot and times for the stick.

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

It wasn’t a moment though we started poorly but I put it down to 3 games in quick succession (our players are not used to that) and a few starters were probably mentally more than anything fatigued.

Emery then made the changes and we dominated then Lopetegui (another world class tactician and manager ) made some changes and for 5 minutes they took back some control but Don Unai made further changes and we dominated the rest of the game. 

Under Gerrard we would have feebly bent over and allowed wolves to do what they want with us but we reacted and then dominated second half with the exception of about 5/10 minutes when they made the subs.

5 league games later and Gerrard’s dna is being replaced by Don Unai’s DNA. 

You have no idea, that would have been the case....possibly, but not enough to us it as an excuse....we could have played like we did against Southampton, last season, such is the inconsistency of this team.

We feebly bent over  last night, first half, and yes bravo, for recovering a position, we shouldn't have been in after Sundays, blissful performance.

I don't put it down to 3 games in quick succession......I simply don't know, what it is, because I have seen it so often in the past, under other managers....but I have my suspicions.

[HKP90]

Just now, osmark86 said:

Never once have I heard fans of AIK here in Sweden boo their own team. I guess maybe it's a difference in fan culture, but if you have nothing good to say I think it's best to be quiet and cheer as a form of motivator. Guess I just vehemently believe that the carrot beats the whip.

Show me a footballer who either doesn't care about losing, or actively wants to lose, and I'll show you a footballer who never played past high school. These are not 5 year olds (and I have a 5 year old). They do not need constant berating when they don't play well. They will know they've not played well, and will want to do better. They would not be Premier League footballers if they did not.

Who here has not had a bad day at work, or made mistakes? Did you need your colleagues to tell you you were shit? Would that have helped?

All booing does is alienate the players from the fan base. 

[osmark86]

6 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Probably is different fan culture then, although I’ve been abroad into mainland Europe for foreign games and witnessed it in different forms.

I believe there are times for a carrot and times for the stick.

Fair play. I guess the time for the stick possibly should gravitate a little more towards around christmas season 2015/16 and less after 45min of a lesser performance under arguably our best manager in decades.

Edited January 5, 2023 by osmark86

[sne]

5 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

Never once have I heard fans of AIK here in Sweden boo their own team. I guess maybe it's a difference in fan culture, but if you have nothing good to say I think it's best to be quiet and cheer as a form of motivator. Guess I just vehemently believe that the carrot beats the whip.

Yeah, AIK fans usually set fire to things and attack rival fans or families with children when things don't go their way 

[osmark86]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

Show me a footballer who either doesn't care about losing, or actively wants to lose, and I'll show you a footballer who never played past high school. These are not 5 year olds (and I have a 5 year old). They do not need constant berating when they don't play well. They will know they've not played well, and will want to do better. They would not be Premier League footballers if they did not.

Who here has not had a bad day at work, or made mistakes? Did you need your colleagues to tell you you were shit? Would that have helped?

All booing does is alienate the players from the fan base. 

Absolutely.

[osmark86]

Just now, sne said:

Yeah, AIK fans usually set fire to things and attack rival fans or families with children when things don't go their way 

Lol yup, no angels for sure. At least they always back the team though.

[AstonMartyn88]

In my opinion the booing was for the performance in the first half as evidenced by the loud Unai Emery’s Claret & Blue Army straight after. 
 

I wasn’t there but watched the game. Would have been booing if I was there as the first half was absolutely terrible and I would have resented paying ticket & transport money on a Wednesday evening just after Christmas and New Year and after work to watch that performance.
 

Support is a 2 way street, fans sounded right behind the players from the off but players didn’t respond in the first half leading to reduction in support.

Stats here for the first half: https://www.flashscore.co.uk/match/d8NOBd1K/#/match-summary/match-statistics/1

Second half much better as fans responded to players’ efforts and players responded to the fans’ efforts. 

Stats for the second half: https://www.flashscore.co.uk/match/d8NOBd1K/#/match-summary/match-statistics/2

It’s a symbiotic relationship. One can’t survive without the other, both need the other to survive. Also not for one second suggesting it’s the be all and end all that dictates a performance - as someone else said if we were 2-0 down at half time but had put the effort in the reaction would have been very different. 
 

Glad we got a point out of it and very pleased with Emery so far, let’s hope it continues. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by AstonMartyn88
Spelling and links

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Who here has not had a bad day at work, or made mistakes? Did you need your colleagues to tell you you were shit? Would that have helped?

Sometimes though, some need a rocket up their butt to get them going and yes that helps.  Sometimes it the type of individual and sometimes it’s a moment.  We’ve all had a moment in our lives when a family member or friend has told us to get off the couch or do something for whatever reason.  Not because we are lazy but maybe a bad day or lazy day.  Sometimes you need somebody to get you out of the funk you are in.  Nobody is saying you’re shit but saying you need to snap out of the moment.  Nobody is saying the Villa were shit but booing is saying the effort they were putting in wasn’t enough.

7 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

All booing does is alienate the players from the fan base. 

No it doesn’t! If it was long term, of course yes but after one half when they would’ve knew it wasn’t enough.  Certainly Unai laid into half time and then they got support and cheered second half.  Alienate the players after one half? Don’t make me laugh

[nick76]

8 minutes ago, sne said:

Yeah, AIK fans usually set fire to things and attack rival fans or families with children when things don't go their way 

Oh wow!

[sne]

Just now, nick76 said:

Oh wow!

Quite a few clubs in Sweden that have rather violent fans. The atmosphere at the big club home games is amazing, world class even. With that also comes trouble in the stands from time to time.

[chappy]

Embarrassing from some of our fans in the first half. Playing it out from the back is clearly a tactic and one that they’re getting used to. They don’t need people shouting FORWARD at them every time they receive the ball. 

[HKP90]

Just now, nick76 said:

Sometimes though, some need a rocket up their butt to get them going and yes that helps.  Sometimes it the type of individual and sometimes it’s a moment.  We’ve all had a moment in our lives when a family member or friend has told us to get off the couch or do something for whatever reason.  Not because we are lazy but maybe a bad day or lazy day.  Sometimes you need somebody to get you out of the funk you are in.  Nobody is saying you’re shit but saying you need to snap out of the moment.  Nobody is saying the Villa were shit but booing is saying the effort they were putting in wasn’t enough.

No it doesn’t! If it was long term, of course yes but after one half when they would’ve knew it wasn’t enough.  Certainly Unai laid into half time and then they got support and cheered second half.  Alienate the players after one half? Don’t make me laugh

Yes, they do, and that comes from their Boss. Unai Emery. The man who is paid to motivate them. Not the fans, who are supposed to be encouraging them. 

After one half is worse. The players will be leaving the field thinking 'f**king entitled fans'. 

[HKP90]

5 minutes ago, AstonMartyn88 said:

In my opinion the booing was for the performance in the first half as evidenced by the loud Unai Emery’s Claret & Blue Army straight after. 
 

I wasn’t there but watched the game. Would have been booing if I was there as the first half was absolutely terrible and I would have resented paying ticket & transport money on a Wednesday evening just after Christmas and New Year and after work to watch that performance.
 

Support is a 2 way street, fans sounded right behind the players from the off but players didn’t respond in the first half leading to reduction in support. Annoyingly I can’t find the first half statistics anywhere but I suspect if you anonymised them and showed them to most fans and asked what they thought the answer would have been ‘terrible’. 
 

Second half much better as fans responded to players’ efforts and players responded to the fans’ efforts. 
 

It’s a symbiotic relationship. One can’t survive without the other, both need the other to survive. Also not for one second suggesting it’s the be all and end all that dictates a performance - as someone else said if we were 2-0 down at half time but had put the effort in the reaction would have been very different. 
 

Glad we got a point out of it and very pleased with Emery so far, let’s hope it continues. 

Support is not a 2 way street. That's why it's support. 

What does a man with a broken leg using crutches do for the crutches? 

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

Fair play. I guess the time for the stick possibly should gravitate a little more towards around christmas season 2015/16 and less after 45min of a lesser performance under arguably our best manager in decades.

I think you maybe taking more from the booing than is needed.  If fans were unhappy they would be nasty chanting like the end of the Gerrard era.  Booing is just slight displeasure at the moment in time, whether effort or an individual.  Arguably the players knew they underperformed first half themselves and realised how much by the booing so wanted to prove themselves to the fans second half and maybe we helped because they knew they had to step it up.  Yes booing can be a negative but let’s not forget it can be a stick and players want to prove it wrong.

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Then give them half time to rectify things. They came out and had what I think we all agree, was a much better half. Saw problem, addressed problem, got something from the game. 

Just act like adults, and treat the players like adults.  

Frustration has a habit of nullifying perspective....but lets be clear here.....The distance between a good performance and a bad performance is what irks us, and it was a gaping void.......The performances to date Under Unai, is not the issue.....its a match reaction, lets not lose sight of that.

Lack of consistency, is what happens when you are a mid table team and we are........We can't win every game, we know that, and losing/drawing is inevitable.....but the way we played first half ( lucky to be still in the game) was woeful...its the measure in the drop that has folk bemused.

It can be as equally frustrating to fans who want to see us rid ourselves of inconsistency, (like other teams in the league have done well, in a similar position to us) and then we come up with that.

I think it can compound the frustration to some fans, when others bat it off, as a bad day at the office, with an air of lets just move on and denigrating that frustration, in the process.

Most of us, want to see our team, fighting for everything we get, I didn't see that in large periods of the game and felt too many players, were just second best to their opponent.....The amount of times, we was just relieved of the ball, was disappointing.....and yet when they had the ball a passive tackle or half hearted semi press.

Many folk, will have their opinions of why that was, and they are entitled to them.......just like those that think its was all ok, is entiled to theirs.

Edited January 5, 2023 by TRO

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

Quite a few clubs in Sweden that have rather violent fans. The atmosphere at the big club home games is amazing, world class even. With that also comes trouble in the stands from time to time.

Thanks, interesting to hear that.  I haven’t been to Sweden yet to see a game so I will put it on my bucket for one day, sounds amazing.

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Yes, they do, and that comes from their Boss. Unai Emery. The man who is paid to motivate them. Not the fans, who are supposed to be encouraging them. 

After one half is worse. The players will be leaving the field thinking 'f**king entitled fans'. 

Well 40,000 fans disagree with you and so do most clubs fans across all the leagues for decades.  We don’t agree on this point but you need to get used to it because it’s common in football and I can’t see it changing.  It’s like some people have never regularly been games.