bobzy Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 9 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I wouldn't say that goal was particularly his fault, but like a lot of the discussion around Olsen it does highlight one of his deficiencies, in this case the poor starting positions he takes up. Or maybe they're not poor because we're so used to Emi, but it can't be a coincidence we concede so much when he's on the pitch. Everything he does looks panicked and reactive. One theory I have is that he, like most current keepers is from an era where keepers didn't need to be so proactive. Our entire platform as a team is built upon this pillar, and if it's even a little bit shaky, we crumble. Before keepers just needed to be solid at their various duties, as and when it's required of them (like Olsen generally is). The ones who were proactive stood out from the pack (ex: Neuer), and as the game evolved more keepers started to play this way. Emi made the transition beautifully, Olsen just doesn't seem to be able to. Limited game time doesn't help of course, but his weaknesses stick out like a sore thumb in Emery's team. I don't think that's an era thing (he's only 4 years older than Martinez), but it's definitely not something he's been asked to do in his career so I do understand where you're coming from. As I've said before, the drop off is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: I don't think that's an era thing (he's only 4 years older than Martinez), but it's definitely not something he's been asked to do in his career so I do understand where you're coming from. As I've said before, the drop off is huge. Yeah I would say Martinez was the same. Like Emi under Smith and Gerrard and Emi under Unai are almost worlds away. Before he was extremely good at the fundamentals (shot stopping, claiming crosses etc), which I would say Olsen is pretty decent at. But since then he's added the sweeping, and ability to play under pressure and Olsen just doesn't have that. The worst part is he's trying, which sometimes makes things worse (like the 2nd goal). He's not wrong, but he's wrong. Idk it sounds weird but it really pains me watching him. I almost feel for him as much as I do for the rest of the team. He's like a fish out of water out there in Emery's system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted May 3 VT Supporter Share Posted May 3 12 hours ago, Jas10 said: Yeah… I don’t think there is any getting away from this. We can back n support him (and he’s not solely responsible for defeats like this) but… there really isn’t any doubt that he is a poor goalkeeper and, despite some visible although slight improvements, just exudes and gives off negative vibes, anxiety, nerves… Emi brings so much positivity, leadership, confidence and a degree of comfort… the defenders know they can trust him, he is in charge (Robin never is, not at all commanding) and he will bail them out at times… He’s not strong or confident enough… some very weak attempts at saves at times… lets in some really cheap goals… Don’t think we can afford to mix up the defence if we have to play Olsen either… need our strongest and regular players to help him out. Lenglet was poor/rusty and looked scared/nervous too… Carlos was immense vs Arsenal but poor and “frazzled” vs Chelsea… it’s like Olsen makes our defenders error prone or just nervous too… his anxiety spreads to others… Robin just injects anxiety and nerves into the side unfortunately and needs to be moved on… Maybe Sinisalo is ready if Gauci is not… - Regardless, he’s not the only one to blame nor the only one who deserves criticism but… there is a worrying trend or pattern and we look a different side when he has only more often than not… We have to move on from him, he can be a liability and we’ve got to move on from that sort of thing… it’s why Chambers never really gets a look in really. I was really disappointed in McGinn and Luiz btw… we needed control of that midfield but they failed… but… they will be back and much improved. Been brilliant much more often than not… players seem drained, mentally as well as physically… need one final push from them. Sinisalo won't come here to play a couple games a year like Olsen. Nor will anyone else half decent. That's the price we pay for having Emi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted May 3 VT Supporter Share Posted May 3 7 hours ago, randy_69 said: The mythology of robin Olsen… I took my 13 yr old daughter last night. She was desperate to sit in the holte for the atmosphere so I agreed - L4. A few minutes in there was a corner where it looked for all the world like Olsen had misjudged it and was going to miss it. We let out a gasp and shudder together. Fortunately he reached it and palmed it out of the area. We then got four word expletives from two men in front of us:: what the f is wrong with you, that was a good save’ fast forward to second goal. My daughter plays in goal and shows a fantastic tactical awareness whenever she plays. She dared to say to me aloud that she thought Olsen should have cut off the angle better and made himself bigger…again the men turned…. and then the fourth goal. I let out an OMG or words to that effect. Once again were told how Olsen hadn’t done anything wrong and there was no way was he stopping it. I said he got his hand to it, and also felt he had gone too early for a shot from that range. Still think he should have saved it. More expletives at me this time. Should have been a memorable experience for her but instead this was all she was talking about for 2 hours going home. We supported the team the whole way, just spur of the moment reactions and comments between ourselves. Yet when the midfield are passing to invisible men and Lenglet gifting corners away, momentary groans are allowable. So this is the mythology. He’s either the worst keeper since Gabor the pyjama man or to others, someone who never puts a foot wrong and the rest of the world is to blame. The truth (backed by stats) is that he isn’t a top keeper. Too slow, not commanding, reflexes not on a par with most premier league keepers. He’s bang average and we need better for our number 2 (but I’ll whisper that quietly in case I offend again). Rant over!!!! whilst giving both barrels including expetives to a guy with his daughter is bang out of order, i will say i'm guilty of this with players who i feel are being slightly unfairly treated. i did it a lot with mings on here (and for a good while whenever i saw his thread had been bumped to the top of page 1 after a loss i made a point of avoiding it) and i found myself doing similar with diaby at many points this season. sometimes if you have a liking to a player you look for any shred of good about them and latch on to it, ignoring their failings so it impares one's ability to look upon things objectively. having the best goalkeeper in the world is both a blessing and a curse. when he's out, the drop off is massive, as it would be if we had any PL team's number 1 (bar maybe 5 or 6) in goal. for example, bournemouth have gotten to mid table with neto in goal. had some bournemouth fans taking the piss out of me at our capitulation against chelsea and they mentioned how poor olsen was. my response was that he's still better than neto...i was serious...and they agreed with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 50 minutes ago, AVTuco said: Sinisalo won't come here to play a couple games a year like Olsen. Nor will anyone else half decent. That's the price we pay for having Emi. Conversely… if we had a decent second choice keeper, he would play more games than Olsen has… Emi could be rested in cup competitions and against weak(er) opposition… The problem we have is that the drop off is too severe… so Emi HAS to play as much as possible, even if he’s not at 100%. Can see a young keeper, possibly Gauci, getting much more game time (beginning next season) than Olsen has and who better to learn from and develop under than the world number 1?? A decent veteran keeper would still be better and bring less nerves and anxiety than he does too… but better and more beneficial to develop our future keeper who could, one day, eventually take over from Emi… or the roles become reversed… sounds like “big club planning” to me… Edited May 3 by Jas10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Once again… it’s fine and even admirable to support and show some belief in a player like Olsen… abuse is never on but proper or constructive criticism is… we can’t keep carrying passengers any more… it’s full steam ahead now under King Unai… if we want to improve… we have to strengthen in as many positions as possible… it’s quite simple. It’s just so obvious that Olsen is not up to standard and is a relatively poor, error prone and mostly nervous (sick of seeing this trait in Villa players, want it gone!) goalkeeper… even worse… that nervousness and anxiety spreads to other players in the team… it’s not something we should have to always contend with… simply not good enough for where we want to go and be… 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted May 3 VT Supporter Share Posted May 3 28 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Conversely… if we had a decent second choice keeper, he would play more games than Olsen has… Emi could be rested in cup competitions and against weak(er) opposition… The problem we have is that the drop off is too severe… so Emi HAS to play as much as possible, even if he’s not at 100%. Can see a young keeper, possibly Gauci, getting much more game time (beginning next season) than Olsen has and who better to learn from and develop under than the world number 1?? A decent veteran keeper would still be better and bring less nerves and anxiety than he does too… but better and more beneficial to develop our future keeper who could, one day, eventually take over from Emi… or the roles become reversed… sounds like “big club planning” to me… I think Emi wants to play as much as possible. It won't help our search for a decent number two. We'll have to settle for someone we won't like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 I think Olsen is leaving and I think Marschal and Sinisalo will be gone too. Martinez, Gauci and one of the younger lads coming into the under 21s will be our 3 next season (think we've had Proctor on the bench a few times?) Martinez wants to win everything and he doesn't want to sit on a bench when we're trying for trophies, we're Unai's Aston Villa now not a Steve Bruce "half arse the cups and glad if we go out" attitude, where any keeper will do because conceding isn't a bad thing. I've said it several times before but will repeat it till the cows come home, it baffles me how much people get fixed on the idea of us having some worldie backup. If we upgrade as much as some people suggest on Olsen they'll be one of the best backup keepers in world football. And they'll be massively cheesed when we go into February and they haven't seen a blade of grass. How do you sign someone with them knowing, all being well they will never play, but if they do they'll be immediately dropped no matter their performances as soon as Martinez is fit. Gauci is 24 by the time the new season rolls around, we've clearly signed him thinking he'll do a job for us when called upon. Otherwise we've signed him because we're planning to farm him out on loan and eventually make a good profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 45 minutes ago, AVTuco said: I think Emi wants to play as much as possible. It won't help our search for a decent number two. We'll have to settle for someone we won't like. Guess we will just have to wait and see… I don’t imagine Olsen continuing as second choice regardless… at this point, he should not be playing for us in the Champions League!! Edited May 3 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) On 02/05/2024 at 23:57, turvontour said: Robin Olsen a £1-2million keeper. I'm honestly not sure what people expect. As if it's somehow his fault. I guess there's a few issues with that - even if that's your valuation and it's valid. 1: He was signed as Swedish international (Swedish no 1, no less) with wages to suit. 2: We might have been swayed buy the bloke being first choice for his country and near the Roma squad in the not too distant when we signed him. 3: We've persisted with him as a back up despite the goals against shooting up and up. That's not totally on him. But a big part of that is down to him. Emery and co watched his massive flapper show against Yanited and Stevenage in the cups last year and decided to persist with him. They carry the can for that too (though obv they've got far more right than wrong this past year. Goes without saying). For the avoidance of doubt, Olsen doesn't have to consistently do a Nyland-style punch or carry in to his own net to be a dodgy keeper. Martinez is more than happy to clean out his own centre had and nevermind the attacker if the ball is in his 'zone'. If in doubt, smash 'em out. Olsen sometimes comes for the ball over the top and sometimes doesn't. That's one of the very worst scenarios for any defence. Before we even get into his ropey distribution. A major Achilles heel for a team that plays out from the back. Edited May 4 by HolteExile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Also: A few years ago Michael Vorm was a first team regular with an upwardly mobile Swansea and on the fringes of the Dutch national team. He then decided -for reasons only known to himself (£££?) to sit on Tottingham's bench for a few years. Ditto Cudicini and a few others. There's never been as much money or prestige in the English top flight as now. Next cab off the rank in the goalkeeping department at Aston Villa in 2024 is not exactly slumming it. We can do better than this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted May 4 VT Supporter Share Posted May 4 4 hours ago, HolteExile said: I guess there's a few issues with that - even if that's your valuation and it's valid. 1: He was signed as Swedish international (Swedish no 1, no less) with wages to suit. 2: We might have been swayed buy the bloke being first choice for his country and near the Roma squad in the not too distant when we signed him. 3: We've persisted with him as a back up despite the goals against shooting up and up. That's not totally on him. But a big part of that is down to him. Emery and co watched his massive flapper show against Yanited and Stevenage in the cups last year and decided to persist with him. They carry the can for that too (though obv they've got far more right than wrong this past year. Goes without saying). For the avoidance of doubt, Olsen doesn't have to consistently do a Nyland-style punch or carry in to his own net to be a dodgy keeper. Martinez is more than happy to clean out his own centre had and nevermind the attacker if the ball is in his 'zone'. If in doubt, smash 'em out. Olsen sometimes comes for the ball over the top and sometimes doesn't. That's one of the very worst scenarios for any defence. Before we even get into his ropey distribution. A major Achilles heel for a team that plays out from the back. That and anyone who'd seen him play for Roma knew he wasn't exactly world class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted May 4 VT Supporter Share Posted May 4 10 hours ago, Jas10 said: Guess we will just have to wait and see… I don’t imagine Olsen continuing as second choice regardless… at this point, he should not be playing for us in the Champions League!! I agree. I don't like the ridiculing he gets from his own fans, but time has come. Stats are there, for whatever reason. Sometimes things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Unai sees some qualities in him, he’s well liked within the team. But has fundamental flaws to his game. Hence why he’s second string to the best in the world. He doesn’t complain. Gets on with things. The reality is also, when he joined we were in a very different position under different management style. He’s a product of circumstance. But not near good enough for us at this current juncture. It’s very hard to find talent willing to sit on the bench for 95% of the season. That’s just the reality, especially as we develop younger talent to step up. But that’s not an overnight thing either. Has he cost us goals? Absolutely, and also, our defensive lapses cost us, but also many choose to put all the blame on him. Keeper errors do happen, but sometimes we concede poor goals as a condition of poor defensive work. It’s not always down to one man all the time. A vocal minority might type stupid stuff in the heat of the moment and we should praise the good moments and criticise the bad. I just hope Robin can show us some of his qualities on Sunday and help us get a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 He’s very unlikely to be here at the start of next season. That tells us everything we need to know. Hopefully we won’t need to rely upon him in any further games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 £50k/w-£55k/w says it might be tricky to find a new club for him. Unless we pay a large part of his salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 5 minutes ago, sne said: £50k/w-£55k/w says it might be tricky to find a new club for him. Unless we pay a large part of his salary. How do we get ourselves into this position. Surely a half decent championship keeper (so par) would accept half that wage to ride the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Dale said: How do we get ourselves into this position. Surely a half decent championship keeper (so par) would accept half that wage to ride the bench. The odd thing is that he was on something like £25k/w at Roma and we apparently gave him a bumper new deal despite Neither Everton, Roma or Sheff U wanting to keep him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just watched the highlights of the match. We win that game with Martinez. Even Olsen's good save early on is only impressive because he has half come for a cross and is now out of position. Sweden are not a good footballing nation anymore. It's still surprising he is their number 1 though. He just seems so poor for our level. If Martinez is back for the second leg and we get the rub of the green, I think we turn it around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oishiiniku_uk Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 It seems a pretty big flaw in our squad that the likes of Palace, West Ham, Newcastle etc have much better backup keepers than we do. I'm not saying those keepers(Henderson, Fabianski, Dubravka) are great, but they are upgrades on Olsen. I really hope we address the issue in the summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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