Philippe Coutinho

[ejvilla]

Bournemouth had at least 2 players on him at all times - each making sure to kick him when he got close to the ball. Ref gave him nothing. Usually that opens a bit of space for someone else, but our passing through midfield was gash, so by time the ball got to Bailey, he had to beat 2 people as well. We went a goal down early and couldn't break down the defence.

Buendia made a huge difference, but we also changed formation when he came on, with 4 attackers vs 3 previous.

This pattern has happened lots of times. We go 1 down very early, opponents sit back, we do nothing and change too late. Gerrard has to show bigger balls and go early next time this happens. I don't care if it's the 15th minute, switch it up. We know we can do f all against the low block from 433.

I don't blame Phil. He was operating in the most congested part of the pitch and had zero creative midfielders hitting him with the right kind of pass. He kept having to take it with back to goal.

When he did get on the ball, running at the defense, he seemed to be thinking too far ahead of his teammates. Several times he released a great pass in difficult circumstances, but Digne and Ramsey misread every time or didn't expect him to pull it off.

[BigJim]

2 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

Play with 2x 6's, Buendia in front of them, Coutinho inside left, Bailey inside right and a striker. Job done. No more he's shit, no more Buendia isn't in the team. Our two best players are on the pitch so no more shit Villa.  

OK. Do you think we could pair Tim with Bouba?   I suggest that because 1) I like Tim and 2) Luis doesn't want to play as a 6, is probably running down his contract, and  I don't think he has a future here.

[avfc1982am]

57 minutes ago, BigJim said:

OK. Do you think we could pair Tim with Bouba?   I suggest that because 1) I like Tim and 2) Luis doesn't want to play as a 6, is probably running down his contract, and  I don't think he has a future here.

No I wouldn't just yet. I'd give him more minutes for sure but we need a bit more experience in that midfield with Kamara. I'd play Luiz or Sanson alongside Kamara. When we defend they sit in and when we have possession one supports and one sits. That's what I'd do. Although I care about DL running his contract down I wouldn't cut my nose to spite my face because he is more than likely the best partner for Kamara having played the role on his own for 3 years. 

[Tom13]

5 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

No I wouldn't just yet. I'd give him more minutes for sure but we need a bit more experience in that midfield with Kamara. I'd play Luiz or Sanson alongside Kamara. When we defend they sit in and when we have possession one supports and one sits. That's what I'd do. Although I care about DL running his contract down I wouldn't cut my nose to spite my face because he is more than likely the best partner for Kamara having played the role on his own for 3 years. 

Wouldn't you run your contract down though if the player that's preventing you from playing in your preferred position is John McGinn?

[BigJim]

2 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

No I wouldn't just yet. I'd give him more minutes for sure but we need a bit more experience in that midfield with Kamara. I'd play Luiz or Sanson alongside Kamara. When we defend they sit in and when we have possession one supports and one sits. That's what I'd do. Although I care about DL running his contract down I wouldn't cut my nose to spite my face because he is more than likely the best partner for Kamara having played the role on his own for 3 years. 

I don't think Sanson really has the physical attributes, he's more an 8, as Luiz is.  I don't think Luiz has done a stellar job in the 6 role either, he doesn't have much pace and is clumsy in the challenge.  Tim is a more powerful presence altogether, and although obviously short on experience I think he would grow into the role very quickly.

Then we have Chambers as a possible option, he's said to have played the position with distinction while on loan.

[PussEKatt]

If anyone else was our manager Coutinho would be on the bench and Emi starting.As ejvilla says above " 

Buendia made a huge difference, but we also changed formation when he came on, with 4 attackers vs 3 previous.

This pattern has happened lots of times. We go 1 down very early, opponents sit back, we do nothing and change too late. Gerrard has to show bigger balls and go early next time this happens. I don't care if it's the 15th minute, switch it up. We know we can do f all against the low block from 433."

a big YES we have done better in the second half....and that just happens to be when Buendia usually comes on.

[rodders0223]

39 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

If anyone else was our manager Coutinho would be on the bench and Emi starting.As ejvilla says above " 

Buendia made a huge difference, but we also changed formation when he came on, with 4 attackers vs 3 previous.

This pattern has happened lots of times. We go 1 down very early, opponents sit back, we do nothing and change too late. Gerrard has to show bigger balls and go early next time this happens. I don't care if it's the 15th minute, switch it up. We know we can do f all against the low block from 433."

a big YES we have done better in the second half....and that just happens to be when Buendia usually comes on.

If he was a 14m midfielder from France he wouldn't be in the squad yet alone on the bench.

[TomC]

To bring a quote over from the Gerrard thread...

1 hour ago, thunderball said:

I think Coutihno would prosper with better players, more structure and more movement, I dont think it’s him, the expectation is at miracle levels.

Exactly. Grealish was so much fun to watch because every time he touched the ball, you anticipated that he might do something magic. People still want a new Grealish and are expecting Coutinho to fill that role.

Today's Coutinho is not at Grealish's level anymore. But he's still a pretty good player and is still capable of the occasional moment of magic. Yes, he's also capable of the occasional mediocre performance like Bournemouth. No, he should not be an automatic starter (nor should anyone else). I would still say that he's a good buy. And let's not pretend he got help from anyone around him on Saturday.

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by TomC

[PussEKatt]

IMHO he should be brought on as an impact player,perhaps later in the game when the opposition is starting to tire out.

[Jas10]

 

[wict01]

Should be on the bench on Saturday. 

[Jas10]

On 09/08/2022 at 20:51, TomC said:

To bring a quote over from the Gerrard thread...

Exactly. Grealish was so much fun to watch because every time he touched the ball, you anticipated that he might do something magic. People still want a new Grealish and are expecting Coutinho to fill that role.

Today's Coutinho is not at Grealish's level anymore. But he's still a pretty good player and is still capable of the occasional moment of magic. Yes, he's also capable of the occasional mediocre performance like Bournemouth. No, he should not be an automatic starter (nor should anyone else). I would still say that he's a good buy. And let's not pretend he got help from anyone around him on Saturday.

 

I don’t think so, I don’t think anyone is expecting or demanding another JG.

In fact, many of us were frustrated at the the fact that we relied so heavily on one player.

After he left, the expectation (and judging by CP’s words in the video he recorded at the time) was that we were improving the team as a whole and if we were replacing him, to steal a phrase, it would be “in the aggregate”.

In other words, we wanted to upgrade and spread quality around the team and not have too much burden or responsibility on one player.

It’s another reason why many of us want to see both Emi and Phil in the side together (as well as it being relevant to how SG used to setup his Rangers side) so that we are more of a threat around the side rather than in just one area or relying on a single player to give us that “spark”.

Bailey too.

Most of us don’t want to go back to the days of relying on and appeasing one player, we want a better and more successful side. But everyone still has to pull their weight, including the “star” signings. But the whole side needs to perform and be setup correctly to be able to bring out the most in individuals or more skilled players too - that’s the issue really and has been for the majority of SG’s tenure… he’s not helping us, seems to be hindering us more than anything…

[TomC]

2 hours ago, Jas10 said:

I don’t think so, I don’t think anyone is expecting or demanding another JG.

In fact, many of us were frustrated at the the fact that we relied so heavily on one player.

I agree with you that overreliance on Grealish was bad, and with your most of your post. But I wouldn't say that nobody is expecting another JG. Some people want another magician.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

He doesn't have the legs to play wide and cut in anymore. He has to play centrally which of course means he's picked ahead of Buendia.

[villa89]

2 hours ago, Jas10 said:

 

His drop in form coincides with the team's drop in form. He's a player that stands out when your team is on top, playing well and getting him the ball. When we play like we did against Bournemouth he's not going to play well. He might magic up a free kick or volley from outside the box or something but he's not going to dictate the game. 

[villa89]

2 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

He doesn't have the legs to play wide and cut in anymore.

He never was never able to that to be fair. He's a number 10 and that's all, similar to ösil.

Edited August 11, 2022 by villa89

[Jas10]

32 minutes ago, TomC said:

I agree with you that overreliance on Grealish was bad, and with your most of your post. But I wouldn't say that nobody is expecting another JG. Some people want another magician.

 

We’d love a magician and I believe we have some but are not getting the best out of them.

My point was simply that I’m sure we don’t expect all of our play to revolve around one player anymore (not would we want that) and expect him to do the bulk of our attacking and creative work - share that responsibility around the squad instead with a more even balance of quality. 

[Jas10]

33 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

He doesn't have the legs to play wide and cut in anymore. He has to play centrally which of course means he's picked ahead of Buendia.

I think he’d be best playing off the CF, he can be a genuine goal threat.

Buendia is better at the creative side and loves a killer through ball.

[A'Villan]

Don't understand the view that Coutinho is somehow lacking in influence and impact. I don't want to assume or deny the reasons behind why some of VT are focused on what Coutinho doesn't offer. The way I understand it that would be suggestive to say that what he does offer, is inadequate and an issue.

I am drawn to Coutinho and see him as possessing skill above and beyond the competition around him. Whats equally impressive is he is one of the few reliable sources for creating for us to make things happen. If he's not directly gaining territory for us, then he's usually always doing something to better our position. 

He may not pick up the ball from deep and go solo all the way to the final third like Grealish could, but Coutinho's deft touch and precision in possession rarely ends up going astray. When his idea wasn't as good as he'd hoped, like any player, it's costly, but I see that as an issue our team is having and less so one Coutinho should be assigned responsibility for.

[AVTuco]

Coutinho should definitely keep starting, no question. I don't even think he was as poor on Sat as many of you seem to think. He's not undroppable, but worth sticking with for now at least.