Steven Gerrard

[VillaParkAvenue]

24 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

I’m going to reserve trying to gauge how much pull Gerrard has as a manager after the summer.

I had thought Coutinho was a nailed on permanent signing, I’m not quite as confident I was. 

However much of a name he is, the higher we finish up the league will make Gerrard’s job of attracting players easier.

Gerrard will always be good at attracting Liverpool or ex-Liverpool players. And as a new manager in this league, and a legendary player, he might be appealing to others as well.

But when players get used to him being a Prem manager, his ability to attract will depend on being successful in the new role. Players will line up to play for a great manager or shy away from a failing one.

[Tommo_b]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

If coaching and motivation can't do anything to address any of this, one wonders why we changed managers at all.

I recall when Smith was sacked, one of the justifications for the timing that Purslow gave was that they wanted to give the replacement plenty of time to turn things around, what a chump, should have told him there's nothing that can be done.

Maybe it has addressed it though, maybe if we had kept Smith we would be worse off. 

[Tommo_b]

34 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Gerrard will always be good at attracting Liverpool or ex-Liverpool players. And as a new manager in this league, and a legendary player, he might be appealing to others as well.

But when players get used to him being a Prem manager, his ability to attract will depend on being successful in the new role. Players will line up to play for a great manager or shy away from a failing one.

And young academy players who grew up Liverpool fans. 

[foreveryoung]

43 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Gerrard will always be good at attracting Liverpool or ex-Liverpool players. And as a new manager in this league, and a legendary player, he might be appealing to others as well.

But when players get used to him being a Prem manager, his ability to attract will depend on being successful in the new role. Players will line up to play for a great manager or shy away from a failing one.

He won't be here if he fails.

I heard Poch is gonna be free?

[thabucks]

Be impressed and at times bewildered by Gerrard to date but hold fire in taking any standpoint due to a myriad of factors. Main one being time.

For me he has the makings of a really good manager and could develop into a top one. He has set out his stall on how he wants to play and will take time to transition as we develop.  We’ve had injuries and players out of form and still after a shocking recent run of form, we’re still in the mix in a tight mid-table battle for 9-10th and have faith Gerrard will find the formula and put a positive run of results together to end the season. 

[Tom13]

11 hours ago, thabucks said:

Be impressed and at times bewildered by Gerrard to date but hold fire in taking any standpoint due to a myriad of factors. Main one being time.

For me he has the makings of a really good manager and could develop into a top one. He has set out his stall on how he wants to play and will take time to transition as we develop.  We’ve had injuries and players out of form and still after a shocking recent run of form, we’re still in the mix in a tight mid-table battle for 9-10th and have faith Gerrard will find the formula and put a positive run of results together to end the season. 

Shouldn't a potentially top manager be more flexible though? Rather than having a strict way of playing?

[The_Steve]

1 minute ago, Tom13 said:

Shouldn't a potentially top manager be more flexible though? Rather than having a strict way of playing?

It’s a reasonable question - I think it reflects the limitations of the squad inherited. He needs to show it in the summer moving forward when he’s able to bring in the players needed. 

[gwi1890]

3 hours ago, Tom13 said:

Shouldn't a potentially top manager be more flexible though? Rather than having a strict way of playing?

I don’t know, every good team has a way of playing, Klopp doesn’t change formation, it took time for him to instil the way of playing he has now, One more relatable would be Arteta at Arsenal,  could have easily been sacked laughing stock of the Premier League, now sticking to his guns and coaching is paying dividends. I might be wrong but chopping and changing would be setting off more alarm bells for me personally than continuing to build a playstyle. 

[Dale]

14 hours ago, Tommo_b said:

Maybe it has addressed it though, maybe if we had kept Smith we would be worse off. 

I really doubt this based on his ability to turn things around - see post lockdown/ten game run. It's a shame that ten minutes in the Wolves game happened as I'm sure our form in the following games wouldn't have fallen away. 

A fundamental shift in performances and approach hasn't been seen under Gerrard since the bounce. Let's hope he has that in his locker (and gets it out soon)! 

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 hours ago, gwi1890 said:

I don’t know, every good team has a way of playing, Klopp doesn’t change formation, it took time for him to instil the way of playing he has now, One more relatable would be Arteta at Arsenal,  could have easily been sacked laughing stock of the Premier League, now sticking to his guns and coaching is paying dividends. I might be wrong but chopping and changing would be setting off more alarm bells for me personally than continuing to build a playstyle. 

I agree with points from both angles.

Personally, I prefer flexibility, but you have a point.

A team , just like with anything else in life doesn't become " well drilled " or excellent at a particular system, unless they practice and execute it repeatedly.

You ideally want it to get to the point where the tactics become second nature for the players. Till they naturally know how to adapt both in and out of position etc.

I'm not the biggest fan of the base system, but in early days I genuinely saw the pros of it.

So I reckon it's more about knowing how to tweak and manipulate the same system so that it's adaptable for different types of opposition and in different sequences of play.

You're right though it's a tough one. If a manager chops and changes the talk will be " he doesn't know what he is doing, or even have a system of play " , and if he sticks to a system of play people don't like, it's also an issue.

Again though, SG and the " system " need time and an increase in player quality ( Or the right players in key areas ) for us to properly evaluate.

[TRO]

17 hours ago, ejs1111 said:

this is a fascinating topic regarding SG.  Personally I'm willing to give him more time despite the poor performances lately.  He has not even had a full season OR preseason yet.  He has not had a summer window yet. 

Frankly imo, I lay alot of the blame for the poor performances at the feet of the players.  They are the ones that cannot string 2-3 passes together, cannot put a shot on target, zero movement without the ball, constant schoolboy defending, etc etc.  Villa are simply not even doing the basics well at the moment, and I blame the players for that.  That is effort and concentration.  Those are all rudimentary footy skills that I'd expect any professional footballer to posses at a minimum.  They are being paid to play this game as a professional athlete.  I'm shocked by the apparent LACK of pride this Villa side show.  They don't seem to care about losing until the 80minute mark.  That is not on SG.  That is on the players.

Whoever at Villa is doing the data analysis when choosing players via scouting needs to be sacked.  This mentality with Villa has been going on for years.  Something is wrong with the 'type' of player we are bringing in imo.  The algorithm needs to be revised.

I totally agree, I question the people resonsible for recruitment....We have made several questionable signings where we have failed to get effectiveness from them.

I don't know about sacking.....but I think some of the actions coming out od recruitment needs to be reviewed.....The Sanson signing was a strange one for me, where was the due diligence, sure he has been unlucky with injuries, but we didn't need his type of player.

We have been unlucky with injuries, with Bailey too.....but is it all bad luck?

I agree with you.....I think there is an issue, with the type of players we bring in......much too samey for me.....and on that basis, I worry for the Summer.

We saw last night, Man City struggle defensively, putting square pegs in round holes.....The 2 full backs missing Walker & Cancelo, caused disruption, to their defence.

We have failed to plug, gaps by bringing in the wrong type of players.

The current manager and our players, have to carry the can for that, and its a bit unfair.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

I totally agree, I question the people resonsible for recruitment....We have made several questionable signings where we have failed to get effectiveness from them.

I don't know about sacking.....but I think some of the actions coming out od recruitment needs to be reviewed.....The Sanson signing was a strange one for me, where was the due diligence, sure he has been unlucky with injuries, but we didn't need his type of player.

We have been unlucky with injuries, with Bailey too.....but is it all bad luck?

I agree with you.....I think there is an issue, with the type of players we bring in......much too samey for me.....and on that basis, I worry for the Summer.

We saw last night, Man City struggle defensively, putting square pegs in round holes.....The 2 full backs missing Walker & Cancelo, caused disruption, to their defence.

We have failed to plug, gaps by bringing in the wrong type of players.

The current manager and our players, have to carry the can for that, and its a bit unfair.

I don't want to say it too loud for fear of being " blasted " , however, maybe the previous manager prioritised a certain type of " player " for the squad, and viewed another " type " as less important. ( For the middle of the park ) - Had a playing style in mind - but one which can probably only be sustainably successfully in the modern PL with ball players of real quality.

Whether Lange etc are in charge of recruitment or not, the Managers input will 100 percent have been taken into consideration.

I'm sure they would have been willing to not sign player X , to sign player X in perceived " needed " position if the Manager made it clear this was the priority for the squad.

The fact that the majority of players we signed over the past few years are " Little ball players " indicate as such to me.

Barring the likes of Nakamba and Wesley OBS. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[gwi1890]

25 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I agree with points from both angles.

Personally, I prefer flexibility, but you have a point.

A team , just like with anything else in life doesn't become " well drilled " or excellent at a particular system, unless they practice and execute it repeatedly.

You ideally want it to get to the point where the tactics become second nature for the players. Till they naturally know how to adapt both in and out of position etc.

I'm not the biggest fan of the base system, but in early days I genuinely saw the pros of it.

So I reckon it's more about knowing how to tweak and manipulate the same system so that it's adaptable for different types of opposition and in different sequences of play.

You're right though it's a tough one. If a manager chops and changes the talk will be " he doesn't know what he is doing, or even have a system of play " , and if he sticks to a system of play people don't like, it's also an issue.

Again though, SG and the " system " need time and an increase in player quality ( Or the right players in key areas ) for us to properly evaluate.

It is tough but he’s the manager now and he will need to be backed, I mean you could argue he wasn’t the correct choice for the players we had, but that’s on Lange and Purslow not him , I’d rather see some continuity to our play style and how Aston Villa operate as a club i.e building and identity as a team who bring youth through and playing in a set way regardless of who’s manager,  Dortmund for example are good at this even Bayern that club hasn’t changed much from the days of Ribbery and Robben to now Gnabry and Coeman/Sane. Either way Gerrard is in charge now and it seem we will have to go down the the route of shifting some players to accommodate the type of player he wants, and judge him fairly halfway through next season.

[TRO]

53 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I don't want to say it too loud for fear of being " blasted " , however, maybe the previous manager prioritised a certain type of " player " for the squad, and viewed another " type " as less important. ( For the middle of the park ) - Had a playing style in mind - but one which can probably only be sustainably successfully in the modern PL with ball players of real quality.

Whether Lange etc are in charge of recruitment or not, the Managers input will 100 percent have been taken into consideration.

I'm sure they would have been willing to not sign player X , to sign player X in perceived " needed " position if the Manager made it clear this was the priority for the squad.

The fact that the majority of players we signed over the past few years are " Little ball players " indicate as such to me.

Barring the likes of Nakamba and Wesley OBS. 

I think you are on to something here, Shaun....I too , believe your view to be accurate.

We bought the predominance of our squad, for a playing style that is no longer favoured.....It would have been folly, to expect a new manager coming in with the same philosophies, when it clearly wasn't working with any consistency.

However, in light of that, I thought the January signings seemed strange to me, but accepted them as purely opportunistic, for the future rebuild, they have in mind....(hoping so anyway)

We all like "Little ball players" and they are essential to a team........but you have to have an antidote, to deal with the ugly bits and thats where we stuggle........We have too many lightweights, too many of the same type, in our squad, which comes back to imbalance.

I am surprised, its happened, because a big club like Villa, I would have thought would have spotted this......However, I do think SG has his finger on the pulse, now and this will be addressed in the summer.....if not, we will have more of the same.

My understanding was that Dean was offered the opportunity for more midfielders, and he declined, claiming he had enough ( not being one for stock piling), but IMO enough of the same player, we needed diversity and he didn't bite.

Your opinions on Villa are valid to me and I would presume, many others.....so never fear of being "Blasted" when your views make sense.

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by TRO

[Zatman]

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

10 minutes ago, Zatman said:

 

Sensible and balanced take I guess re SG?

Simon Jordan adding balance, Trevor saying we've probably under achieved so far.

I do like Simon.

Anyway re Ramsey, 70 k really is decent money, however it's a good indication, ( including Cash new contract ) of what we see as major cogs going forward.

[The_Steve]

8 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Sensible and balanced take I guess re SG?

Simon Jordan adding balance, Trevor saying we've probably under achieved so far.

I do like Simon.

Anyway re Ramsey, 70 k really is decent money, however it's a good indication, ( including Cash new contract ) of what we see as major cogs going forward.

I’m glad he brought up the Viera comparison because they aren’t the same and Viera has been able to bring in a lot of players. 

[TRO]

14 hours ago, thabucks said:

Be impressed and at times bewildered by Gerrard to date but hold fire in taking any standpoint due to a myriad of factors. Main one being time.

For me he has the makings of a really good manager and could develop into a top one. He has set out his stall on how he wants to play and will take time to transition as we develop.  We’ve had injuries and players out of form and still after a shocking recent run of form, we’re still in the mix in a tight mid-table battle for 9-10th and have faith Gerrard will find the formula and put a positive run of results together to end the season. 

I am still seeing things, I was unhappy with under Dean Smith.

but one had 3 years.....this one has had 6 months.

It does take time, but equally that time needs to be managed well, for time to be of relevance.

When SG has had a summer of business and a pre-season training......we will be much clearer what we've got.

The results have been up and down like a fiddlers elbow....but under the circumstances, its maybe not surprising.....January, we just dipped our toe in to the market, and in my view didn't address the main issues.....SG only had a handful of games to see what the main issues are....I have had seasons to form my opinion....right or wrongly.

 still think the run in, will be flaky, with the odd good game and rest much like we have seen....The season as a whole has been pretty disppointing, and many of the issues that bug me, still there.

However, I still believe in SG....The summer signings and start,  will tell me more of whether my faith, is right or misplaced.....I am not looking for miracles, but tangible improvement to being difficult to beat, I am.

 

[TRO]

17 hours ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Gerrard will always be good at attracting Liverpool or ex-Liverpool players. And as a new manager in this league, and a legendary player, he might be appealing to others as well.

But when players get used to him being a Prem manager, his ability to attract will depend on being successful in the new role. Players will line up to play for a great manager or shy away from a failing one.

True.

but is that a bit soon for conclusions.

[hippo]

14 hours ago, thabucks said:

Be impressed and at times bewildered by Gerrard to date but hold fire in taking any standpoint due to a myriad of factors. Main one being time.

For me he has the makings of a really good manager and could develop into a top one. He has set out his stall on how he wants to play and will take time to transition as we develop.  We’ve had injuries and players out of form and still after a shocking recent run of form, we’re still in the mix in a tight mid-table battle for 9-10th and have faith Gerrard will find the formula and put a positive run of results together to end the season. 

Injuries ?