Steven Gerrard

[TRO]

18 minutes ago, sne said:

To his credit I think he did all that he could and tried as hard as he could. He just happened to be utterly useless at the job. Once his "brain behind the operation" left it got even worse.

But not for a lack of trying

Never once, turned on the fans either.....fully supported the fans frustration and feelings.

not much consolation, but something others failed to show.

I think he was far more decent, than some give him credit for.....just failed.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, The_Steve said:

Telegraph claiming Gerrard clashed with Lange and Danks 

Interesting, nice to be a fly on the wall.

[Teale's 'tache]

29 minutes ago, TRO said:

Fair Assessment Imo....much how I feel

He never once had a bad word aimed at the fans either......even in their times of frustrating rants.

However, I would say, many different styles of management, can result in the right outcome.....I think a managers style derives, largley, from their intrinsic personality.

Even in the day....Ron Saunders was not popular, with all the players, but he was consistent in his manner and won games....as was Martin O'Neill, (who I didn't like, after he arrived,)  neither did many of the players.

I accept, with huge transfer fees and wages for players, it makes it difficult, for managers to exert authority, because higher ups, have an interest in their investments......I know its paradoxical, but Authority and respect, come from winning matches.

 

I think this is the most important thing, there's still room to be somewhat old school in your handling of players, but you have to be consistent with it, I don't think Gerrard was consistent. Part of managing a team of any kind is understanding how to motivate each member, and more importantly understanding that not every team member will react the same way, old school may work on some, but not all.

I also don't agree with the bombing out of players, it's not something top coaches do anymore, now more than ever it's a squad game and denying yourself part of that of that squad is not really beneficial. Gerrard was quick to bomb out Guilbert and pack Traore off on loan, and in his final game didn't have a fit right back to start and had been begging for a 'bit of magic' in the final third, something that Traore is entirely capable of providing when fit and motivated. I'm not saying these are amazing players that would of kept him in a job, simply that it would of been better to keep them onside than not.

[dubbs]

26 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

 

How on earth would they know that?

[The_Steve]

4 minutes ago, dubbs said:

How on earth would they know that?

His camp leaking stuff to try and make him look less bad but does the opposite 

Edited October 21, 2022 by The_Steve

[villa4europe]

So he planned on dropping mcginn vs chelsea, he didn't he started him, mcginn played even worse than usual, he started him again vs fulham

He got exactly what he deserved

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said:

 

I think this is the most important thing, there's still room to be somewhat old school in your handling of players, but you have to be consistent with it, I don't think Gerrard was consistent. Part of managing a team of any kind is understanding how to motivate each member, and more importantly understanding that not every team member will react the same way, old school may work on some, but not all.

I also don't agree with the bombing out of players, it's not something top coaches do anymore, now more than ever it's a squad game and denying yourself part of that of that squad is not really beneficial. Gerrard was quick to bomb out Guilbert and pack Traore off on loan, and in his final game didn't have a fit right back to start and had been begging for a 'bit of magic' in the final third, something that Traore is entirely capable of providing when fit and motivated. I'm not saying these are amazing players that would of kept him in a job, simply that it would of been better to keep them onside than not.

I think its always hard to reconcile for anyone when you have:

Player 1) Fantastic skill set....but lightweight, drifts in an out of games

Player 2) Modest sill set..... works like a trojan, but a bit dour in creativity

The trick is to have player like Grealish, who had both.....We have players, with on or the other, and we have inconsistencies....We may have decent players, but they lack the complete too box.

We have imbalances in the team.....We have no centre forward who is a threat, in the air, another shortfall......we took how long to find a CDM, playing player out of position, to suffice, only to make them disgruntled.

The whole midfield looks much the same in terms of attributes, not much diversity and not much ability, to get round opposing players.

I would find it hard, to keep shtum, with what I see, from game to game......I find it hard in current form to describe, some of our players as decent.

I think, Les Ferdinand's comments as "passive," was sadly, appropriate and depressingly sickening......for my sins, I have seen that for way too long now, and way before Steven Gerrard....That is not excusing him, but empathising to a degree...I honestly thought, he would get rid of that....and he didn't.

The next manager has to ban that description, from our game.....else we will fail, again.

 

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

8 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

So he planned on dropping mcginn vs chelsea, he didn't he started him, mcginn played even worse than usual, he started him again vs fulham

He got exactly what he deserved

If i'm honest, I could picture this.

Him knowing the right thing to do, being dropping him.

Then backing out last minute as his ego wouldn't allow him to do it. ( Probably thought he'd be seen as bowing to pressure )

Decided to bite off his nose to spite his face.

Almost self sabotage, or a decision to " die " by his decisions.

 

I actually don't dislike SG but this should be a harsh lesson and humbling.

Edited October 21, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Probably McGinn:

 

 

Just reaffirms that this was probably the owner incredibly pissed off after last night. 

I don't blame him one bit. 

[Tom13]

Has anyone put out a social post about Steven yet?

[Teale's 'tache]

39 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think its always hard to reconcile for anyone when you have:

Player 1) Fantastic skill set....but lightweight, drifts in an out of games

Player 2) Modest sill set..... works like a trojan, but a bit dour in creativity

The trick is to have player like Grealish, who had both.....We have players, with on or the other, and we have inconsistencies....We may have decent players, but they lack the complete too box.

We have imbalances in the team.....We have no centre forward who is a threat, in the air, another shortfall......we took how long to find a CDM, playing player out of position, to suffice, only to make them disgruntled.

The whole midfield looks much the same in terms of attributes, not much diversity and not much ability, to get round opposing players.

I would find it hard, to keep shtum, with what I see, from game to game......I find it hard in current form to describe, some of our players as decent.

I think, Les Ferdinand's comments as "passive," was sadly, appropriate and depressingly sickening......for my sins, I have seen that for way too long now, and way before Steven Gerrard....That is not excusing him, but empathising to a degree...I honestly thought, he would get rid of that....and he didn't.

The next manager has to ban that description, from our game.....else we will fail, again.

 

 

 

If we had a squad of players that were all good at everything we'd never lose a game. It's not realistic, unless you are Man City.

Part of a managers job is to take the players he has and make something out of it, a mix of player types and a system that best hides their weaknesses whilst making the most the most of their strengths.

You say we have no forward who is a threat in the air, then why on earth have we put nearly the most crosses into the box across the whole league? That's not playing to the strengths of what we have available.

In the end, the results weren't good enough for the players we have available, I feel that a new voice, and a new defined system that plays to our strengths will result in better performances. Time will tell, as it always does.

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Teale's 'tache
typo in my typo

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said:

 

If we had a squad of players that were all good at everything we'd never lose a game. It's not realistic, unless you are Man City.

Part of a managers job is to take the players he has and make something out of it, a mix of player types and a system that best hides their weaknesses whilst making the most the most of their strengths.

You say we have no forward who is a threat in the air, then why on earth have we put nearly the most crosses into the box across the whole league? That's not playing to the strengths of what we have available.

In the end, the results weren't good enough for the players we have available, I feel that a new voice, and a new defined system that plays to our strengths will result in better performances. Time will tell, as it always does.

 

I agree, but I wasn't suggesting they have to be perfect, but thats where you have aim, its all about degrees of capability.

I have to agree, with the highlighted bit too.....lets hope the next guy can.....but if the manager was  good everything, the same parallel, could be said.....we sign managers, with gaps in their ability, for the same reason, of who we are, and what pulling power we have.

I agree with you again, why are we pumping balls in with mediocre quality, only to find, inside forwards( by description) with poor ability/will to attack a ball.

I also agree, that something had to give, time will tell as you say, to see if that new voice, gives us what we have been looking for, I hope so.

 

[NeilS]

28 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Just reaffirms that this was probably the owner incredibly pissed off after last night. 

I don't blame him one bit. 

Yeah it was reported by Preece that NS was extremely angry at the game, and had stormed out immediately after Dougie was sent off. I imagine he had seen enough by that point in the game, that he knew what he had to do. It was a weak performance from the first few minutes, we all saw it, Fulham ran rings around us. At no point did we look like a team that cost millions to assemble.

[rodders0223]

52 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

If i'm honest, I could picture this.

Him knowing the right thing to do, being dropping him.

Then backing out last minute as his ego wouldn't allow him to do it. ( Probably thought he'd be seen as bowing to pressure )

Decided to bite off his nose to spite his face.

Almost self sabotage, or a decision to " die " by his decisions.

 

I actually don't dislike SG but this should be a harsh lesson and humbling.

I genuinely think if he hadn't made McGinn captain or at least dropped him for Sanson or a player ever marginally capable of keeping the ball he'd still be in a job

- and that goes for dropping Ramsay for Sanson too - just anyone who can keep the ball ticking.

 

I will never ever ever understand the decisions he made with that midfield and some of the footballers at this club.

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Never once, turned on the fans either.....fully supported the fans frustration and feelings.

not much consolation, but something others failed to show.

I think he was far more decent, than some give him credit for.....just failed.

I agree. Glad he’s gone, but agree, showed respect for the club in a way previous managers haven’t when things have got tough. Just a shame really, I wanted it to work out.

[mottaloo]

Some folk say SG was lost without Beale and we certainly were crap all this season.....but...unless I'm missing something here, we weren't "all that" when Beale was at the club....we just weren't as consistently crap.

[a m ole]

Very interested to see if he stays in management or retires to punditry.

[sne]

21 minutes ago, mottaloo said:

Some folk say SG was lost without Beale and we certainly were crap all this season.....but...unless I'm missing something here, we weren't "all that" when Beale was at the club....we just weren't as consistently crap.

Have this image of Beale spelling out his tactical ideas for Gerrard detailing how the team should set up. Gerrard waiting until he's finished and then chiming in with: And attacking full backs like Liverpool has.

Beale starting again and explaining why that wouldn't work and what they should do instead, and then Gerrard again: And attacking full backs like Liverpool.

Then Beale buggers off to QPR.

Rinse and repeat with Critchley  

Edited October 21, 2022 by sne

[DJBOB]

16 minutes ago, mottaloo said:

Some folk say SG was lost without Beale and we certainly were crap all this season.....but...unless I'm missing something here, we weren't "all that" when Beale was at the club....we just weren't as consistently crap.

At the end of the day, Beale was an assistant. No matter how good you are of an assistant, the decisions come from the top.

Sad that at the end - all I really felt was pity for him. Was clearly in over his head and not served well by being appointed this job too early and allowed too much of a say on his transfers.

Number one on a manager's remit is to be able to use the players you have in your squad. Unless you're Pep and you have the greatest array of talents in front of you, you do not have infinite resources to pick from. Identifying what works and what doesn't is the number one job of a manager and Gerrard time and time again failed on that front and colossally failed understanding anything tactically.

He needs to go learn the trade in a league that's more challenging than the Scottish league.