VillaParkAvenue Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said: Michael Owen is not talking about Villa here, but he could be… Not sure ”weeding them out” sounds quite as good in the Championship with no players left. Another possibility is to weed out every manager who drops below a 1.5 points per game average each month. Only the strong survive. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Gerrard is as frustrated as we are at our inability to score the goals to beat average teams below us in the league. He highlighted our inability to work Foster yesterday despite having about 20 shots, almost all off target, and thought that he and the team were deservedly booed off after the final whistle. He's a winner who is hugely annoyed with himself and the team. He and his coaches are trying to sharpen up the physical and mental state of a bunch of players who have been coasting for too long, while trying to implement his style of play .... and it's taking time. SG will sort out his own tactical errors, and also bust a gut to turn things around on the pitch. He won't blame the players because he takes the failure to win very personally. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted February 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) I am not sure if it is a case that the players we have can't play Gerrard's system or whether it is a case of Gerrard's system doesn't work, certainly against some sides. For his first couple of months here I thought the players adapted to his system really well, performances were decent and we got some good results. In January we then added a very good player in Digne and a world class player in Coutinho to fit that system better. In the main though performances over the last couple of months have been poor. For me it isn't a lack of quality that is doing for us as we had better players on the pitch against Watford, Newcastle, Leeds, Brentford and took one point from those games. It isn't that the players can't play the system as they showed for Gerrard's first couple of months they could and we then added players more suited to that system. For me it is that other sides have now sussed out how to play against Gerrard's system and the weaker sides are quite happy to stifle their own game and adapt if it means they can stop the opposition. That may well be the reason why we have looked better against the better sides we have faced over the last few weeks - Man Utd twice and Leeds who play the same way regardless of opposition. Whether Gerrard will be willing to change his system I don't know. It may well be that he believes he needs to muddle through until the summer then bring in 3 or 4 players he thinks will better suit the way he plays. The pressure will certainly be on him then next season though if we aren't challenging top 8 and he is persisting with his system. Edited February 20, 2022 by markavfc40 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said: Gerrard is as frustrated as we are at our inability to score the goals to beat average teams below us in the league. He highlighted our inability to work Foster yesterday despite having about 20 shots, almost all off target, and thought that he and the team were deservedly booed off after the final whistle. He's a winner who is hugely annoyed with himself and the team. He and his coaches are trying to sharpen up the physical and mental state of a bunch of players who have been coasting for too long, while trying to implement his style of play .... and it's taking time. SG will sort out his own tactical errors, and also bust a gut to turn things around on the pitch. He won't blame the players because he takes the failure to win very personally. It's not taking time. It's not working. Ings+Watkins in numerous games have been shown not to work together. So rekindling that partnership in pursuit of goals is the height of stupidity. The whole Targett / Digne fiasco has stupidity written all over it. We strengthen a rival club for nominal loan fee - we miss out on the more urgently needed midfielder to upgrade a full back - with someone who maybe in time will be marginally better. He's then riling the fans - by promising changes - then changing his mind. Now he's started doing that daft sulking in his chair thing. These are unforced errors that we can see. Heaven knows what's going on behind closed doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I am not sure if it is a case that the players we have can't play Gerrard's system or whether it is a case of Gerrard's system doesn't work, certainly against some sides. For his first couple of months here I thought the players adapted to his system really well, performances were decent and we got some good results. In January we then added a very good player in Digne and a world class player in Coutinho to fit that system better. In the main though performances over the last couple of months have been poor. For me it isn't a lack of quality that is doing for us as we had better players on the pitch against Watford, Newcastle, Leeds, Brentford and took one point from those games. It isn't that the players can't play the system as they showed for Gerrard's first couple of months they could and we then added players more suited to that system. For me it is that other sides have now sussed out how to play against Gerrard's system and the weaker sides are quite happy to stifle their own game and adapt if it means they can stop the opposition. That may well be the reason why we have looked better against the better sides we have faced over the last few weeks - Man Utd twice and Leeds who play the same way regardless of opposition. Whether Gerrard will be willing to change his system I don't know. It may well be that he believes he needs to muddle through until the summer then bring in 3 or 4 players he thinks will better suit the way he plays. The pressure will certainly be on him then next season though if we aren't challenging top 8 and he is persisting with his system. He's already brought in 3 players - had a mid season break to condition them to his methods .......and we look worse. What will another 3 or 4 incomings and a pre season bring ? - not much imo. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 50 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said: Michael Owen is not talking about Villa here, but he could be… Fair enough IF that is the perfect formation to play a game of football in. Personally I am not sure on that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 58 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said: Michael Owen is not talking about Villa here, but he could be… I think one of the main issues, certainly on Saturday, is he keeps picking these players. Then didn’t really stick to his formation with his subs and we ended up a complete mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 We are hardly scoring goals either. We just lost 1-0 back to back against the worst teams in the league. This team shouldn't need a complete rebuild but to play this style it sounds like it might. I'm not sure how I feel about that, I want to see him get more out of what we have. We are suppose to be adding 1-2 top quality players now each season but we need a new striker, RB, entire new CM on top of what we did in Jan. I actually think the whole bombing our full backs forward thing would work a lot better if we were a fast paced team with Bailey/Traore up there instead of Coutinho/Buendia. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 hour ago, WallisFrizz said: Michael Owen is not talking about Villa here, but he could be… Yeah I'm not sure that really applies to us. It's not like we look good going forward and concede and we just need to tweak it. We've been abysmal in all areas the last few games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 hour ago, WallisFrizz said: Michael Owen is not talking about Villa here, but he could be… Yeah weed them out by bringing in the likes of chambers. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 31 minutes ago, hippo said: He's already brought in 3 players - had a mid season break to condition them to his methods .......and we look worse. What will another 3 or 4 incomings and a pre season bring ? - not much imo. Hard to say. Conte has been struggling with Spurs and they have a much better team than us. Assuming we don’t have a complete disaster before the end of the season we’ll have to judge after a pre season, and I think it’s completely fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 2 hours ago, DCJonah said: Patience is important, but part of the challenge Gerrard and the board will face, is that despite what a minority on here will tell you, they sacked a popular manager. I argued a long time about realistic expectations, i think that's going to become an issue yet again. Is it that unrealistic to want to finish 9th or 10th. After beating Everton we were probably 3-4 points off Wolves. Now 8th is unrealistic. However taking 4 points off Brighton and Southampton and suddenly top half becomes realistic again.....unless that's deemed an unrealistic expectation now. I don't think anyone on here is demanding top 6 and next season that's going to be pretty unrealistic. However I simply don't get why despite spending millions every transfer window a low top half finish is some impossible dream. Eventually we're going to have to demand it if we're to ever move forward and want to hang onto key players. For us to finish 14th or 15th now would be completely unacceptable in my book and really put Gerrard on notice for start of next season. Even after all the disruption of pre season and then the poor form in last few weeks under DS it really dosen't take that much to finish top half given the inconsistant nature of teams just above. I bet since Gerrard came in we've still won more games than say Brighton have. Depends what people want. It's no good however for the PR stuff from Purslow and owners about being in CL one day and yet we treat 10th or above as an allergy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, hippo said: He's already brought in 3 players - had a mid season break to condition them to his methods .......and we look worse. What will another 3 or 4 incomings and a pre season bring ? - not much imo. That's the issue. He made two major purchases and we got worst. Not just a little bit worst mind you. We currently don't even look like a PL squad. The xG numbers we are putting up are relegation worthy. I went back and looked at Liverpool under Klopp right after his appointment. They definitely had some freak results but in almost every game they dominated offensively. 20+ shots, 5+ shots on target, xG +2. Their defense let them down in most of those games. Now with us wearen't generating anything offensively. Even the Leeds game they bested us from an xG perspective. I can absolutely see why Liverpool fans were willing to give Klopp time. First his pedigree. Bundesliga winner, Champions League finals appearance. His CV spoke for itself. If Steven was generating a decent attacking return then I feel patience would be the right answer. Not sure we can give Steven an entire season if the performances remain this dire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Five Ken McNaughts said: Personally, I think Gerrard should double down and take his philosophy to its natural conclusion. If our full-backs are now attackers and our midfielders are now defenders, let’s go the whole hog – Mings making darting runs off the last man while Ings drops in to cover at centre back... Martinez storming down the wing while Buendia fills in between the posts... Come on, if Opposite World is the key to winning football matches then let’s not be half-hearted about it. This sounds like something out of Shaolin Soccer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) It feels like the same things that hampered Dean this season (lack of width, pace, unbalanced midfield, unfit players) are now killing Gerrard, accept he had a transfer window to try and put it right (leading to a left back upgrade and one of the world's best midfielders on load) and come next Saturday will have a fit Bailey, semi fit Traore and a fit Sanson all available (and a Buendia who isn't underperforming). The other problem is the spine of the team seems to be suffering, Konsa, Cash and Luiz have got worse. Has Ings scored under Gerrard? McGinn and Watkins have remained at the same level of crapness they were under Dean this season. Despite being fit Sanson doesn't play. Young still seems a waste of a substitution every time he's called on. Gerrard has to avoid the same mistakes Dean made, and try and really use the squad we have, play to our strengths instead of trying to turn us into something we can't yet seem to pull off Edited February 20, 2022 by VillanousOne 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Wurzel Posted February 20, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2022 Just my opinion, but a lot of money has been spent assembling this squad, any manager has to work with the players he has and set up accordingly. Gerrard is not doing that he is trying to force a system on a squad that is not fit to play that system. He has to be adaptable and change his system to suit the squad, if not he will never succeed as a manager. We have sacrificed a Villa man, who loves the club and had every fibre in his body trying to succeed for Villa, for a big name, that has attracted a couple of players but is having no success getting the squad to play his system, and for me so far it is not an upgrade, in fact a little bit of the soul of the club has been sacrificed for a star name. Fine if it works, but leaves a really hollow feeling when it isn't. Am I expecting too much? probably, but the whole point of getting rid of Smith was to improve the performances, but that has not happened, and if the answer is to replace the whole team then how much will that cost? he must do much better. As I said just my opinion. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 57 minutes ago, Hanky said: I think one of the main issues, certainly on Saturday, is he keeps picking these players. Then didn’t really stick to his formation with his subs and we ended up a complete mess. Do you think the same system would work if only he swallowed his pride and started Chrisene, Hause, Chambers, Iroegbunam, Sanson and Bailey? Because those are the options, more or less. Those players are mostly inexperienced and/or rusty, which could make adapting to a complicated system rather demanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 45 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Every club has them, Klopp out after his first few months in charge! Pep out after his first year in charge. Shit how many wanted Smith gone after 2-3 months! Some things will never change. I would have thought most fans just want him to play a system that suits the players he has. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said: Do you think the same system would work if only he swallowed his pride and started Chrisene, Hause, Chambers, Iroegbunam, Sanson and Bailey? Because those are the options, more or less. Those players are mostly inexperienced and/or rusty, which could make adapting to a complicated system rather demanding. He could play a 4231 using the double pivot so his fullback tactic works..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, Wurzel said: Just my opinion, but a lot of money has been spent assembling this squad, any manager has to work with the players he has and set up accordingly. Gerrard is not doing that he is trying to force a system on a squad that is not fit to play that system. He has to be adaptable and change his system to suit the squad Maybe he feels that the system which suits the current squad will never be good enough for top ten? Maybe he made it clear at his interview that to progress we would need to play a different way and bring in different players? Personally I think we are at least five players away from a top eight side 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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